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GregoriusT

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1

Saturday, March 17th 2012, 12:41pm

[Tutorial] Efficiency, advanced lagfree Mechanics and logisticspipesfree recursive Autocrafting, with IC², Redpower and Tubestuff (including Windmillengineering by SpwnX) - Incredibly outdated, GT offers automation now.

Hello and welcome to my Tutorial about lagfree Mechanisms using several Mods together with IC².
This Tutorial is for all the people who hate lag.

1.0 Disclaimer for the Defaultstuff

:Intergrated Plating: = Void or irrelevant Block
:Coal Chunk: = Nonflammable Wall, most likely Cobblestone
:Intergrated Heat Dispenser: = Stone/Cobblestone generated by Water and Lava
:Batbox: :MFS-Unit: :Geothermal Generator: :Electric Furnace: :Macerator: :Compressor: :Extractor: :Recycler: = guess what it is, The last is a Recycler or a Massfabricator, depending on context
:Wind Mill: = Chest
:Bronze Pickaxe: = Blockbreaker
:Bronze Hoe: = Deployer
:Copper Dust: = redstone/redalloy Wiring (better insulate it if possible)
:Bronze Dust: = redstone/redalloy Wiring, which is NOT connected to the :Copper Dust: -Wiring
:Glass Fibre: = any Wire capable of holding enough EU/t
:Cable: = Redpowertube
:Lava Cell: = Lavasourceblock, :Water Cell: = Watersourceblock
:Advanced Machine:, :Tesla Coil:, :Teleporter:, :Water Mill: = some special Blocks (will be described in every Diagram)

1.1 The major rules of lagfreeness:

- EVER, if you have the choice between Redpower and Builcraft for a Factory, then CHOOSE REDPOWER!!! (because it's better, even if more expensive)

- EVER, use Insulated Redwires or Redstonetubes if possible. (Insulated means WITH Wool)

- EVER, if you have the choice between a RP-Circuit and a Computer, then CHOOSE THE COMPUTER!!! (because it's less noisy and ONE Block)
_______________________________________

- NEVER make a "x<5"-Second-Timer!!! (just search another way)

- NEVER make a long waterproof Pipe!!! (because it causes graphical lag)

- NEVER build your Base inside a Thaumcraft-Monolith or inside of a Tainted Area!!! (Massive graphical Lag, because of Eldritch Stone and Taintblocks)

- NEVER use Internet Explorer!!! (for something else, than downloading another Browser, lol)

1.1.1 Getting the Stuff from the Inputchest into the Factory or the Storage
The most people think that a Timer, set to 1sec or so is a good Idea, but it Lags horribly. So what to do if you have several Stacks of Items you want to Push to your Factory? I use the Relay of Redpower, it just puts its Inventory into the Tubesystem if there is Space.

// Old Mechanism i outdated due to the Relays

The Relay is a very simple Device. It checks every Second (And its even not Laggy!) if it has an Itemstack in its Inventory, and if there is nothing blocking the Output of it, then it will spit out the Itemstack into the System. You can use it to make a very dense Stream of Items, (which is maybe coming from your BC-Quarries), to small compact Itemstacks, and insert them into the otherwise BC-Incompatible Tubesystem.

1.1.2 Factorymechanics using RP
After you have pulled out all this Stuff out of your chest, you need a Factory to process that stuff.

From the side:

:Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: => Another Way to the Outputchest
:Cable: :Intergrated Plating: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: Inputfilters for the stuff
:Cable: :Intergrated Plating: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: Relays for Buffering the Input
:Cable: :Intergrated Plating: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: You have to place Covers between the Tubes!
:Wind Mill: :Intergrated Plating: :Extractor: :Electric Furnace: :Electric Furnace: :Electric Furnace: :Macerator: :Macerator: :Compressor: :Recycler: :Recycler: :Macerator: :Tesla Coil: :Cable: The thing on the Left is the Inputrelay
:Glass Fibre: :Batbox: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Electric Furnace: This is for Autosmelting Dusts

You can see such a Factory (how i'm normally using it) on the third Picture (inside a Thaumcraftobelisk)
Edit: I forgot to add a timer (CC-Computer in this case) for the Outputfilters, before Screenshotting, but the rest is working fine.



1.1.3 The Cobblestonegenerator for your Scrapmachine (MC 1.2.3 or older!!!)
Now you need to supply your Factory. Many people are building Cobblestonegenerators, so i will place my less lagging versions of it here:

Version 1
The middlepart from the Top:
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk:
:Intergrated Plating: :Coal Chunk: :Water Cell: :Intergrated Heat Dispenser: :Lava Cell: :Coal Chunk:
:Coal Chunk: :Water Cell: :Coal Chunk: :Bronze Pickaxe: :Coal Chunk: :Lava Cell: :Coal Chunk:
:Coal Chunk: :Intergrated Heat Dispenser: :Bronze Pickaxe: :Wind Mill: :Bronze Pickaxe: :Intergrated Heat Dispenser: :Coal Chunk:
:Coal Chunk: :Lava Cell: :Coal Chunk: :Bronze Pickaxe: :Coal Chunk: :Water Cell: :Coal Chunk:
:Intergrated Plating: :Coal Chunk: :Lava Cell: :Intergrated Heat Dispenser: :Water Cell: :Coal Chunk:
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk:
Make sure that the water is not flowing to the Cobblestonespot and obsidianizing the Lava, and all the Blockbreakers are facing naturally their Cobblespot. It can supply five nonoverclocked Recyclers

Slice from the Side:
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Copper Dust: :Copper Dust:
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Copper Dust: :Water Mill:
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Copper Dust: :Advanced Machine: :Bronze Dust: :Bronze Dust: :Intergrated Plating:
:Intergrated Plating: :Teleporter: :Copper Dust: :Copper Dust: :Copper Dust: :Teleporter: :Intergrated Plating: the 4 ToggleLatches :Teleporter: , Inputs are left and right, and the Outputs are top and bottom
:Coal Chunk: :Intergrated Heat Dispenser: :Bronze Pickaxe: :Wind Mill: :Bronze Pickaxe: :Intergrated Heat Dispenser: :Coal Chunk:
:Intergrated Plating: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Tesla Coil: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Intergrated Plating: the Redwiring must not connect to the Filter :Tesla Coil: or the Blockbreakers :Bronze Pickaxe:.
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: -> Output, this is a redstonetube which triggers the Filter every 30 seconds via a Timer (its possible to use the same Timer as for the Blockbreakers)

:Teleporter: = ToggleLatch facing the Cobblespot like in Version two
:Advanced Machine: = a Timer facing left with 30sec duration
:Water Mill: = Repeater facing up with two punches delay

WARNING: THESE COBBLEGENS ARE NO LONGER USABLE AS OF REDPOWER PR 4E FOR MC 1.2.3!!!

SpwnX made a good and actually also working Version.

SpwnX invented a new clockless Cobblegendesign, while i have forgotten about them.

Spoiler Spoiler

The Repeater must be delayed to 4 Redstoneticks (three punches)





1.1.4 Your sorted Storage or Warehouse
Many people are building large Storagecomplexes, thats only nice if they are not lagging like the last crap. Here is my solution for a good sorted Storage. Belive it or not, BC-Diamondpipes are better for Storagesorting as Redpower, but they become laggy, if you are not tossing whole Stacks of the material in, and they have no overflowprevention and costing your precious Diamonds. So we are finally using RP-Filters for it to spend our useless Gold for something good.

From the Top:

Input comes from left and uses the mechanism of 1.1.1 to get the items in.
:Cable: :Cable: :Cable: ... :Cable: :Cable: :Cable:
:Intergrated Plating: :Tesla Coil: :Intergrated Plating: ... :Tesla Coil: :Intergrated Plating: :Cable:
:Intergrated Plating: :Wind Mill: :Intergrated Plating: ... :Wind Mill: :Intergrated Plating: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: Doublechest or Personal Safe for all the unsortable items
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: ... :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: Your Walkway

:Cable: = Normal Tubes, not redstoned
:Tesla Coil: = Filter with the Inputconditions for your chest/doublechest

1.1.5 Using Sortingmachines
many People are using Sortingmachines wrong, because
Chest adjacent to Sortingmachine + Timer == VERY BAD!
This Setup is much better:
Relay -> Tube -> Sortingmachine -> Output == Perfect!



Visit Page 2
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

This post has been edited 7 times, last edit by "SpwnX" (Oct 23rd 2013, 5:13pm)


GregoriusT

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2

Saturday, March 17th 2012, 12:46pm

[Tutorial] Page 2

2.0 Energyproduction
Same disclaimer as 1.0 for these Icons

2.1 Solarenergy
You may noticed the extreme Lag caused by Solar (and other ULV-Energysources), this is because of the huge amount of EU-Packets travelling through the Cable (mostlikely Tincable). I suggested a less-lag-Idea to Alblaka and he replied with i would have to add AT LEAST TWO LINES OF CODE to implement it, so hopefully this is dividing ULV-Lag through five, in the future, but now i will show you the blueprint of a Low-Lag-Solar-Flower for today.

Slice from da Side:

:Intergrated Plating: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil:
:Tesla Coil: :Glass Fibre: :Batbox: :Glass Fibre: :Tesla Coil:
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Glass Fibre:
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Glass Fibre: <- Output

Directly from da Top:

:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Tesla Coil:
:Intergrated Plating: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil:
:Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil:
:Intergrated Plating: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil: :Tesla Coil:
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Tesla Coil:

Blueprint is completly Symmetric.
Batbox output is facing down.
:Glass Fibre: = Any wire (you need only one for every Batboxside except the top)
:Tesla Coil: = Solar because it's Icon looks like :Solar Panel:


It's easy and doesn't lags so much. And the Solariterating to Sky-Lag is nearby nonexistend (try to use an OV-Scanner, which makes the same with iterating to Bedrock)

Note on Solar:
Rain and Thunderstorms are not affecting Solarpanels in Deserts (I looked at its Sourcecode), so place it in Desert to get more Energy.

2.2.1 Windenergy for Workshops
Now about the Wind, if you don't want to set up one of these GIANT Windfarms (like SpwnX), but just want to power your Workshop with cheap Windenergy, then this will be an efficient Antilagmethod.

Slice from da Side:

:Intergrated Plating: :Wind Mill:
:Wind Mill: :Batbox: :Wind Mill:
:Intergrated Plating: :Glass Fibre: There should be no block next to it.
:Intergrated Plating: :Glass Fibre: look at the IC²-Wiki for details about Windmills.
:Intergrated Plating: :Glass Fibre: <- Output

Directly from da Top:

:Intergrated Plating: :Wind Mill:
:Wind Mill: :Wind Mill: :Wind Mill:
:Intergrated Plating: :Wind Mill:

Blueprint is completly Symmetric.
Batbox output is facing down.
:Wind Mill: = Windmills, not Chests like in the Disclaimer

if you think that these sounds from the Windmills are too much laggy, then go to your IC²-Config and set "soundSourceLimit=32" to 10.


Note on Wind:
Rain and Thunderstorms are affecting Windmills also in Deserts (I looked at its Sourcecode too)

2.2.2 Windenergy in large scale (Massfabrication)
Look at this Post, SpwnX explains all.

2.2.3 Mathematical Notes from our Windmillengineer SpwnX (for MC 1.2.4+)

Wind mill at 128 (100% of maxheight) on 1.1 generates 1x
Wind mill at 256 (100% of maxheight) on 1.2.3 generates 2x (will make wind mills break VERY often)
Wind mill at 192 (75% of maxheight) on 1.2.4+ generates 1x
Wind mill at 256 (100% of maxheight) on 1.2.4+ generates 1.33x

If you have Mods which are changing the Heightlimit (maybe to 512) then you have to place your Windmills even higher to get the same effect.

Windmills, which are producing more than 5 EU/t having a 0.003125%/sec chance to break.


2.3.1 Small Geothermal Setups for the early Base
You want to use Geothermal for your Workshop and you get rid of this ON-OFF-ON-OFF from your Geothermals? Maybe you are looking for this invention:

both Storageblocks (Batboxes in this case) facing right.
Geothermal Input -> :Cable: :Glass Fibre: :Cable: :Batbox: :Cable: :Batbox: :Cable: -> Output

Switch the Redstonebehaviour of the left to "Emit if full" and for the one on the right to "Emit if empty".


:Cable: :Glass Fibre: :Cable: :Batbox: :Cable: :Batbox: :Cable:
:Intergrated Plating: :Copper Dust: :Intergrated Plating: :Copper Dust: :Advanced Machine: :Copper Dust:
:Intergrated Plating: :Copper Dust: :Copper Dust: :Copper Dust:

:Advanced Machine: = RS-Latch connected to the Redstone
:Cable: = Normal Cable
:Glass Fibre: = EU-Switchcable

That way it turns any connected Geogen OFF if the first Batbox is Full and ON if the second Batbox is empty.

2.3.2 Geothermal Setups using Redpower for 1.2.5+
Since Redpower has Pumps, you can throw BC completely away. Here a Design for RP-Engineers:

Slices from the Side:
:Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre:
:Geothermal Generator: :Miner: :Geothermal Generator: :Geothermal Generator: :Miner: :Geothermal Generator:
:Coal Chunk: :Empty Cell: :Empty Cell: :Empty Cell: :Empty Cell: :Fuel: :Wind Mill: :Cable: ... :Cable: :Fuel: :Lava Cell: Lavasource
:Intergrated Plating: :Force Field: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Copper Dust:
:Intergrated Plating: :Copper Dust: :Advanced Machine: :Copper Dust: :Copper Dust: :Copper Dust: :Copper Dust:

Slices for Front- and Backside
:Intergrated Plating: :Glass Fibre: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Glass Fibre: :Intergrated Plating:
:Intergrated Plating: :Geothermal Generator: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Geothermal Generator: :Intergrated Plating:
:Intergrated Plating: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk: :Coal Chunk:
:Intergrated Plating:

:Miner: = IC²-Pump (works if adjacent to Geogen, but needs ONE empty Cell to start running, which will be NOT consumed)
:Empty Cell: = Space for Lava under the IC²-Pumps
:Fuel: = Grate
:Cable: = Liquidtubing
:Wind Mill: = RP-Pump
:Coal Chunk: = Solid Material for "piping" Lava without a Disaster
:Advanced Machine: = Circuit like in Picture 2 (60sec Timer + NOT-Gate+Pulselimiter connected to RP-Pump)

You can use a RP-Lightsensor :Force Field:, to detect if there is Lava under the last field, to activate the RP-Pump only if needed, to waste no Blutricity. If you have RP, then use this Design, because it produces 30000 EU per Lavablock, instead of the normal 20000 EU, using Lavacells or BC-Pipes!



2.4.1 Automatical manned Watergens with RP
You want a secret Base underground AND renewable Energy? Then this is maybe your choice if you are using Redpower.

Slice showing left Side

:Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre:
:Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill:
:Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Advanced Machine: :Cable:

Slice showing right Side

:Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre: :Glass Fibre:
:Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill:
:Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Cable: :Tesla Coil: :Bronze Hoe:

The Top (without the E-Wires on top)

:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Coal Chunk: :Water Cell:
:Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Tesla Coil: :Bronze Hoe: :Water Cell:
:Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Advanced Machine: :Cable: :Water Cell:

:Bronze Hoe: = Deployer is facing the Water filled with 9 Buckets at the beginning
:Tesla Coil: = Filter pulling ONLY full Waterbuckets out of the Deployer
:Advanced Machine: = Retriever pulling the empty Waterbuckets out of the Watergens to the Deployer

8 watergens per Setup are the Max (theoretically 32 but then that timertickingsound lags like hell).
The blutric Wiring and the Redwiring are not shown here. The Deployer, the Filter and the Retriever should use the same 2 sec Timer. I know 2 seconds is bad but wasting Enderpearls for Retrievers is bad too if you not were in the End.


2.4.2 Unmanned Watergens
If you really want to use unmanned Water then is SpwnX Watertower maybe the right for you.

This is an examplemap for Watertowers

2.5.1 ICE-CASUCs in 1.2.5 and earlier
After i managed to blow every single Waterbucket-CASUC up on chunkload, i decided to make ICE-CASUCs. So here a small Picture of what i connected via Magtubes to my Requestsystem. (Yes, Retrievers are working also through Magtubes)

It's Itemdetector is in Stuffed-Mode to be sure that the Reactor ever has at least 8 Stacks of Ice, and my current Iceproductionsystem is using a Thaumic Duplicator, but it doesnt matter where the Ice comes from, as the Reactor just stops when it hasnt enough Ice in it.

Visit Page 3
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

This post has been edited 8 times, last edit by "GregoriusT" (Sep 27th 2012, 8:15am)


GregoriusT

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3

Wednesday, March 21st 2012, 3:07pm

[Tutorial] Page 3

2.5.2 Waterbucket-CASUCs:
You want to use your Uranium very efficienty? You want to have 1840 Eu/t Output? Then you should build a CASUC-Reactor!!! But not a random Ice-Eater, i'm talking about a much more efficient Waterbucket-CASUC, HAYO! Basicly you need 8 Deployers, 16 Filters, 88 Buckets, 8 endless Watersources, Redwiring, a complete Six-Chamber-Reactor and a 0.550sec Timer (theres no other way, we must use that Intervall).

In my five attached Pictures, you can see my Reactorsetup, including the CC-Programs to safely run it.

It is a symmetric Blueprint so that you can easyly guess what where belongs. The Filters connected to the Deployers having full Waterbuckets and the ones connected to the Reactors are having empty Buckets, to be sure that its refilled with the right Coolantbuckets.

jppk1 was the first one who built that Reactor: http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.…d&threadID=5704

Snyke gave me an easy understandable Explaination of the Explosioncode, so now you can easyly calculate the amount of RF-Stone (Blastprooflevel = 150) around your Reactor.

Snyke's Explosionmath

Your setup has 42 uranium cells.
Nuclear reactors explode with a force of 10 + cells*3 - reactorplating*1 (found this in the source)
So yours would explode with a force of 10 + 42*3 = 136.
However this is limited by the config, the default max explosion force = 45.
Maximum distance of explosion = force/4 = 11,25 - this is with nothing in the way.
The way IC2 explosions work is that they shoot rays with a certain length in all directions.
Those rays end 1 block apart.
As our rays have a distance of 34, the angle between rays is arctan(1/distance)
So that angle = 0,0294 radians = 1,68 degrees
Meaning the number of rays in half a circle = PI / angle = PI / 0,0294 = 106,84 - this is rounded down to 106.
The way explosions shoots rays is that they increase the horizontal angle bit by bit, and for every step they shoot rays from bottom to top by increasing vertical angles.
The absorption of a block the explosions calculate with is 0,5 + (resistance*3/5 + 4) * 0,3. However i'm not sure about the *3.
So for reinforced stone that's 0,5 + (150*3/5 + 4) * 0,3 = 0,5 + 34*0,3 = 28,7.

Water's resistance is nerfed, absorption of water = 0,5 + (30*3/5 + 4) * 0,3 = 7,1
Reactor chamber resistance is 10, absorption = 0,5 + (10*3/5 + 4) * 0,3 = 3,5
Nuclear reactor resistance is 15, absorption = 0,5 + (15*3/5 + 4) * 0,3 = 4,4
As long as the power is greater than the absorption, the block gets added to the list of blocks that will be removed - but it will stay as long as not all rays have been shot.
The power of each ray diminishes with the absorption of a block.
Now the problem is, the explosion starts at the exact coords of the nuclear reactor, which is a corner of the block.
Another problem is, if the absorption exceeds 10, another ray is shot in a random direction, with a force of absorption * 0,4.


Warning: if you build the RF-Wall too close to the Reactor, then parts of the Wall can vanish into flowing Lava, creating nonexplosionproof holes in the RF-Innerwall. So just build the Wall a few meters away from your Reactor.

Visit Page 4
GregoriusT has attached the following images:
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I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "GregoriusT" (Sep 4th 2012, 8:36am)


GregoriusT

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  • "GregoriusT" started this thread
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4

Wednesday, March 21st 2012, 5:48pm

[Tutorial] Page 4

3.0.0 Limiting Energy for the Massfab to produce UUM (nearby) only from Scrap
You want to produce UUM Efficiently and only with Scrap? Then the MISEL (Massfabricator-Input-Scrap-Energy-Limiter) is the right choice. It limits the Energy to the amount of Scrap passing through the Pneumatic Tube, and makes Massfabricating much more efficient, HAYO!

But its not really explainable with Words, so i will just put a few Pics of it (see Attachments) here.

The Picture contains MISEL-MK-III, its Itemdetector is in stuffed Mode. (Output via Retriever)



3.1.0 recursive Autocraftingsystems only with Redpower and Tubestuff. (Now i killed Logisticspipes finally!)
You ever wanted to automatically craft things on demand? Those components for the Logicgates, are a pain in the Ass to craft? You dont have BC installed and so you cant have Logisticspipes for that? I HAVE YOUR SOLUTION!!! The autocrafting Factory! Now you can do all those things, without Buildcrash or Logisticpain, with my new simple and modular Setup! HAYO!!!

You can see the Setup i made a few numbered Rectangulars around the Maincomponents



1. The Autocraftingmodule consists out of the ACT2, a Retrievulator and a Retriever. You cant place them adjacent to each other because of the strong Redstonesignal, which is emitted by the Retrievulator, but i suggested Immibis a way to fix that. But for now, you have to place them in a Checkerboardpattern, with Glass and blutric Wires inbetween. An example for the GUI's of these 3 Devices, can be found in the 3rd Picture (It's autocrafting Logs to Planks)

2. These are THREE Restrictiontubes, which are ALL THREE needed to control the Itemflow.

3. The Outputchest. Setup the Retrievulator behind the Chest, to buffer certain requested Items inside the Chest. Then grab the Item you need, and it will refill the Chest automatically, as long as there are enough Resources.

4. An empty Retriever and a Relay, together with ONE Restrictiontube, are sending all the overflown Items back, to the Sortingmechanism of your Storage.

5. These TWO Restrictiontubes are marking the Way to the Storage. So it has, a higher Itemgrabbingpriority for the Retrievers, as the Autocrafteroutput, and a lower Itembacksendingpriority, as the Retriever+Relay.

6. This is the (probably sorted) Storage. Design it however you want, as long as you connect every Storagechest, to the two Restrictiontubes of '5.' and the Retriever+Relay, to the Sortingmechanism.


3.2.0 advanced Bluticitygeneration with Solarpanels! ("exploiting" a Bug of Redpower)
You want to make blutric Solarpanels, but you dont want, to make them in a large horizontal Panel? Then the Solartower is the right choice! This Towerdesign generates large amounts of blutricity, by wasting less horizontal space. Yes, the Solarpanels below are also generating blutricity!



You can ofcourse replace the Batboxes with Blutric Wiring


3.3.0 simple and fast Snowballproduction with IC²-Pumps and Compressors
You want to make Snowballs using IC²-Pumps, but the Compressors are taking a break after every single Snowball? You tried using 2 Pumps per Compressor to solve that, even when one Pump is theoretically fast enough? this Setup using 4 Compressors and 4 Pumps is especially for YOU, not for that Guy right there, i mean YOU!!!




Visit Page 5
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

This post has been edited 7 times, last edit by "GregoriusT" (Sep 1st 2012, 2:38pm) with the following reason: Hey, i found out that the Editingreason is still there after editing again.


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5

Thursday, March 29th 2012, 10:32pm

[Tutorial] Page 5

4.0.0 Other options/configs for Lagfreeness

4.1.0 Configs as far as i know

Quoted from "Rick"

I'm using redpower, buildcraft, railcraft, computercraft and forestry is there anything in else the configs or other settings (other than the redpower you already mentioned) that reduces lag?
Set these to the values behind the "=", and only read the Part after the "//":

IC²:
soundSourceLimit=10 // reduces Soundlag of IC² dramatically

Redpower:
logic.enableSounds=0 // reduces Soundlag of RP-Timers/Sequencers

Buildcraft:
# increasing this number will decrease network update frequency, useful for overloaded servers
network.updateFactor=? // Don't know if this really can reduce Lag

These Settings are enough to keep my very slow Netbook at a moderate speed of 10 FPS instead of 2-5 FPS.


4.2.0 A detailed List of Lagsources and their prevention:

4.2.1 Connectionlag:
Also called Blocklag, because Blocks you placed/mined will be removed/replaced after a second. This is caused by either a bad Internetconnection, or by a too low Bandwidth on the Serverside (Server overloaded), so bug your Internetprovider/Serverhoster about that. This can also mean CPU-Lag on the Serverside, but its not in most cases.

4.2.2 Graphical Lag
This is just your slow Graphicscard, so you have to install Optifine, to get rid of it. This kind of Lag is caused by Mobs, Items, Particles and other Entities, like Items inside Tubes or Pipes, or in case of laggy Buildcraft also filled Liquidpipes.

4.2.3 Fragmentationlag
This kind of Lag comes mostly together with an Out-Of-Memory-Error as Minecraft accumulates the Amount of used RAM until it hits 1GB (Or the set amount of RAM), this happens mostly with Mystcraft, as everytime you change Dimensions (but also the Nether and the End), it increases the amount of used RAM for no logical Reason. But it can also happen when you use HD-Texturepacks as they consume pretty much RAM. This kind of Lag can be solved by just restarting Minecraft.

This kind of Lag is completly fixed in MC-1.3 and newer Versions!

4.2.4 Soundlag
Mostly happens, if you come close to flowing Water or Fire. This Lag is the most aggressive kind, as its in every Cave, and in Vanillaminecraft also at every Itemtransportsystem! And not only that, it comes also together with most IC²-Machines! Here how to fix it:

Before MC Beta 1.9pre6, it was possible to delete the "water.ogg", "fizz.ogg" and "fire.ogg", but now this "Antilag-option" is only possible if you have no internetconnection at all, because it just redownloads the Sounds without having to "Force Update" (WHYYYYYY?). But now it redownloads those Sounds, so we have to prevent Minecraft from redownloading them. To do so, you need to replace some Audioresources with this
resources.zip
Just replace the 3 Files inside your ".minecraft/resources"-directory with the ones in my zip, and you will nevermore hear those Sounds. (these are just empty Files with ogg-ending, which are set to "read-only")

Removing Sounds of the Mods like the lagging Windmillsounds from IC² works also great! To remove Sounds of IC² you have to open its JAR with WinRAR or 7zip, and then go to "industrialcraft-2-client.jar\ic2\sounds" and then just remove the desired Sound.

4.2.5 CPU-Lag (Just inefficient coded Features)
This is the thing, what i try to prevent with this Tutorial. CPU-Lag is VERY RARE, and most likely not the case, when someone says, that you lag the Server. I found only a few things, which really cause that kind of Lag, here a small List:
- Taint from Thaumcraft, but not only the Blocks, also the atmospherical Taint causes massive Lag, as it tries to spawn Taintblocks
- Redpowers Pump, but only if the target-"Container" is full and the Water/Lava has nowhere to go. Otherwise its even less lagging, than the BC-Pump.
- Solarpanels in OLD Versions of IC² (They were iterating to Sky)
- Large amounts of working Blockbreakers (Framequarries or many Cobblegenerators)
There is nothing more about that kind of Lag. And NO, Mobs and Items DO NOT CAUSE THIS KIND OF LAG!


Important other Stuff:

If you don't understand something, then its not a shame to ask.
If you have an own nearby lagfree and usefull Mechanism then post it here. (Warning: Buildcraft wont be accepted. Use Redpower)

I think i will make more Screenshots to explain that stuff better.
The designs are sometimes not properly visible if you have a too small Screen like the one of my netbook.

Another stuff coming soon (if i find some usefull stuff), and some stuff is getting constantly updated.

Q&A

Questions and Answers


Sorry if I'm asking a stupid question, but if I place my windmills in a desert biome, can I place them higher without having a breaking chance as there is no rain/thunder in the desert, thus increasing the average power generation? If it's possible how much higher can I place them?
Nope, Deserts are having the same Storms as other Biomes, theres only no rain.

And it's not a Dump question, its a good Question, because it was not answered in the Post.

I just have a little Question about your geothermal Setup with Redpower: How did you solve your Bluetricity generation to run the pump? Is there a more elegant solution than just spamming thermopiles?
You need only 2 Thermopiles (1 Lava and 4 Water each like Direwolf20 does it) and a good timer (Sequenzer is perfect for that), because the Pump produces 4-5 times faster than the IC²-Pump can handle, so you have to use less blutricity if the RP-Pump is only working 1/4th of the time (instead of inefficent pumping all the time if its not needed). I personally use a 8 high Thermopiletower to get enough blutricity for an Alloyfurnace (Smelting rare Drops of Zombies and Pigmen and Rails from Mineshafts), a Retriever (automanned Watermill) and the mentioned Pump for the Geothermal.
You can use RP2 light sensor to detect if there is lava under IC2 pump, and if there isn't, then activate RP2 pump (so no timer/sequencer). Although I don't know about CPU usage of light sensor.
GENIUS!!! I never thought of that. and the CPU-intensity is VERY LOW!!! I will add it!!!



Other Tutorials and Guides:

All about the Massfabrication: [Tutorial] The Massfabricator and UUM
Computercraftbasics: [Tutorial] Basics of Computercraftprogramming
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "GregoriusT" (Aug 31st 2012, 3:43pm)


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6

Thursday, March 29th 2012, 11:24pm

[Tutorial] Page 6 ?
Warning IC² experimental users, E-net changes makes this setup not work as is, it has to be reworked to fit it, which i'm not doing until the e-net is finished.
You have to do it by yourself.
Windmill-Engineering by SpwnX! [Math included]
IF you don't want to read about mechanics and other blabling, go to spoiler "For lazy people". [Normal Setup]
For compact one read "For the ones who want an even more compact setup..."
Also, tower cable size shown is 16 blocks tall (64 windmills per tower), you can make it taller by adding 16 more ULV wires to the tower (128 Windmills per tower).

Snyke's Math!

Windmill mechanics:
There's a random value from 0-30 which represents the windstrength.
If this gets above 20 or below 10 the chance of decreasing or rising more will decrease.
There is a weather value aswell, if it's raining this is 1.2, if it's storming its 1.5, other wise just 1.
EU/t output = (windStrength * (height - 64 - blocks around windmill(itself not included)) / 750 * weatherValue).
If the output is larger than 5, there is a chance equal to (this value - 5) / 5000 of the windmill breaking, which is checked once every 128 ticks.

We dont want any chance of it breaking so:
5 = windStrength * (height - 64 - blocks around windmill) / 750 * weatherValue.
5 = 30 * (height - 64 - 2(the cables beneath it)) / 750 * 1.5
5 = 45 * (height - 66) / 750
3750 = 45 * (height - 66)
83,333 = height - 66
height = 149,33
Optimum height is thus 149.


You can calculate average output by taking windstrength = 15 (which is the average windstrength).
So average output of a windmill at 149 = 15 * (149 - 66) / 750 = 1,66 EU/t - all day, all night.
Average output of a solar panel = (12 * 1 + 8 * 0 ) / 20 = 0,6 EU/t - meaning windmills are 1,66/0,6 = 2,766, almost 3 times as good.

My math for tower design

Math for Unbreakable tower design using Snyke's formula (from sourcecode):
Considering MAX wind strength [30] + Thunderstorm [x1.5 multiplier] . And my design [pictures near the end of the post]

5 = WindStrength * (height - 64 - obstructing blocks) / 750 * weather value
5 = 30 (h - 64 - 34) / 750 * 1.5
5 = 45 (h - 98 ) / 750
3750 = 45 (h - 98 )
83,33... = h - 98
h = 181,33...
h = 181
h = Height of highest wind mill on tower.

Highest wind mills needs extra obstructions above it to make whole tower have exactly 34 obstructions.


This one below is legit, built by me SMP (Timmiecraft)


Wind mill Costs


Wind mill recipe: 1 generator + 4 Iron
Generator recipe: 1 Furnace + 1 Machine block [8 iron] + RE - Battery
RE - Battery recipe : 4 tin + 2 redstone + 1 insulated copper cable
Insulated copper cable recipe: Uninsulated copper wire + rubber
Uninsulated copper cable recipe: 3 copper = 6 cables , 1 copper = 2 cables

Total: 12 iron [8 refined], 4 tin , 2 redstone , 1 rubber, 1/2 copper , 8 cobblestone
64 Wind mills costs [One Wind tower] : 768 Iron , 256 tin , 128 redstone , 64 rubber , 32 copper , 512 cobblestone.


Weather Info

Rain/thunderstorms are global, so even if you place your windmill at desert it will still get 1,2x or 1,5x multiplier (weather value)

Weather Frequency/Duration:

Rain duration in seconds : 180 to 600
Pause between rain in seconds : 600 to 8400

Thunderstorm duration in seconds :
180 to 600
Pause between thunderstorms in seconds :
600 to 8400

Wind Strength

Wind Strength may vary alot while you play, so DO expect low outputs and high outputs.
Minimum strength is 0, Maximum is 30.
Modified every 128 ticks (About 6.4 seconds)
Chance to increase or decrease by 1.
10% chance to increase if current strength is 0 to 20.
10% chance to decrease if current strength is 10 to 30.
Current strength of 0 to 9 have (current strength)% chance to decrease in strength. (E.g. 0 current strength has 0% chance to decrease, 1 = 1% to decrease, ..., 9 = 9%)
Current strength of 21 to 30 have (30 - current strength)% chance to increase in strength. (E.g. 21 current strength has 9% chance to increase, 22 = 8% to increase, ..., 30 = 0%)

For lazy people... (Normal Setup)

If you are reading this, you might be too lazy to read the whole post. I gave enough information to build wind towers without the need of this.
Anyway, here are 10 screenshots that explains everything (kinda).
Step ZERO is VERY important





















For the ones who want an even more compact setup (and don't care about height and resources), here is a map explaining almost everything : WindTestMap - Fixed
Safe height is Y 237

Pictures of an even compactier setup (Block distance between towers is 2)





Area required formula


Normal : 7N + 4
Compact: 5N + 6
N = Number of towers in Any direction
Square setups (N x N) are recommended, only use different ones if you have limited space that is not a square.

For example a 5x5 setup (25 towers) will use:
Normal design: 7*5 + 4 x 7*5 + 4 Area = 39x39
Compact design: 5*5 + 6 x 5*5 + 6 Area = 31x31


If you have any questions, ask it in this post , i will reply as soon as i can.
Special Thanks for Snyke for Wind mill formula :D
We need people to document GregTech, help us by joining the FTB wiki team: http://ftb.gamepedia.com/GregTech_6

This post has been edited 29 times, last edit by "SpwnX" (Nov 5th 2013, 5:48pm)


7

Wednesday, May 16th 2012, 3:40pm

Another note about the new RP relays:

If you put them inline with a tube, there is a small delay before they eject items that come in to their inventory. This can be used to your advantage if you have a dense incoming stream of single items, because they relay will make them into small (5-6 items - depends on how fast stuff is coming in) stacks before sending them back out.

Unfortunately, this really is only useful for very dense streams of items right now. I need to suggest to Eloraam to add a "consolidator" mode to relays so you can force them to hold onto stuff until a min stack size is reached...

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8

Thursday, May 17th 2012, 10:41pm

So, the large Towercobblegen is good, IF you pull out 64-Stacks of Cobble instead of 32-Stacks.
That multicobblegenerator on the second Pic is lagging even more, than the Tower of the first.
The Watergen is the most Spaceefficient Design, and if i would use Unmanned Water then i would build it exactly like that.

I guess you have used Diamondchests or something like that, because the Chests where disappeared (I dont have it installed).
GregoriusT has attached the following images:
  • Good Cobblegen.png
  • Bad Cobblegen.png
  • Watergen.png
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

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GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

9

Tuesday, May 22nd 2012, 12:55am

I noticed that a geothermal generator hooked up to a storage device that's powering low-draw machines with the "on-off-on-off" behavior causes a lot of lag in addition to being annoying if you have the sound on (was lowering fps by about 15).

With the latest version of RedPower, the two-storage-block method of preventing this behavior is obsolete. You can just set your storage to "emit if full", then use that as an input for a state cell set to 60 seconds or whatever you want the minimum cycle time to be that in turn controls a splitter cable between the geo gen and storage.

The same setup works (with the state cell output inverted) to make a mass fab use spare power but on a less laggy cycle time.

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10

Tuesday, May 22nd 2012, 7:21am

I noticed that a geothermal generator hooked up to a storage device that's powering low-draw machines with the "on-off-on-off" behavior causes a lot of lag in addition to being annoying if you have the sound on (was lowering fps by about 15).

With the latest version of RedPower, the two-storage-block method of preventing this behavior is obsolete. You can just set your storage to "emit if full", then use that as an input for a state cell set to 60 seconds or whatever you want the minimum cycle time to be that in turn controls a splitter cable between the geo gen and storage.

The same setup works (with the state cell output inverted) to make a mass fab use spare power but on a less laggy cycle time.
This would've worked with a Timer and a Togglelatch. I'm using the Doublestoragetechnique, because the Geothermals and the Factory (which is also containing a M.I.S.E.L. at the MVT) are having two diffrent Bufferstorageblocks (Normally MFSU and MFE with a MVT between), to transmit the Power faster to the Massfab.
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

11

Monday, May 28th 2012, 9:42pm

I've been doing some testing to track down the source of some mysterious lag, and it seems one of the culprits is RedPower relays. Any more than one or two in an area, and things get noticeably jerky. A shame, because they're extremely useful. :(

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12

Monday, May 28th 2012, 10:52pm

I've been doing some testing to track down the source of some mysterious lag, and it seems one of the culprits is RedPower relays. Any more than one or two in an area, and things get noticeably jerky. A shame, because they're extremely useful. :(
Relays? I have tested tons (two Stacks in a Relaychain) of them on my very slow Netbook (I also thought it was a Lagsource) and didnt got noticable Lag. But after i built a few Microblocks (including empty Tubes) it got very laggy in my Workshop, due to the Graphiccard, which is not even supported since Minecraftbeta (I have to use the Alphalauncher to start it there).

But in general you should use short Tubenetworks, because the Tubepathfinding could be the Problem. Thats why my Workshops are normally looking like that...
GregoriusT has attached the following image:
  • Chaos_Factory.png
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

13

Tuesday, May 29th 2012, 1:05am

Well, my test shop had everything shut down... only two slow timers (20-60 sec), and some adv. machines maintaining their ready state. I just had a few relays and was plopping them down, and picking them up (not connected to anything), and the difference was noticeable.

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14

Friday, June 1st 2012, 3:46pm

I added:


"- NEVER build your Base inside a Thaumcraft-Monolith or inside of a Tainted Area!!! (Massive graphical Lag, because of Eldritch Stone and Taintblocks)"


This is because things, which are nonopaque and glowing (Glowstone, Eldritch Stone, Taintblocks! etc.) are causing graphical Lag if standing nearby.
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

15

Saturday, June 2nd 2012, 12:53am

A timer-less cobble generator:

same key as OP

Top view:
:Intergrated Plating: :Coal Chunk: :Intergrated Plating:
:Coal Chunk: :Lava Cell: :Coal Chunk:
:Bronze Pickaxe: :Intergrated Heat Dispenser: :Rubber Log: :Water Cell:
:Intergrated Plating: :Coal Chunk: :Intergrated Plating:

cutout side view:
:Bronze Pickaxe: :Intergrated Heat Dispenser: :Rubber Log: :Water Cell:
:Intergrated Plating: :Wind Mill: :Rubber Log: :Intergrated Plating:
:Intergrated Plating: :Intergrated Plating: :Rubber Log: :Intergrated Plating:

:Wind Mill: = red-stone torch
:Rubber Log: = blank space (where water flows through)

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16

Saturday, June 2nd 2012, 6:33am

A timer-less cobble generator:
No longer possible as of Redpower pr 4e.

Edit: SpwnX made a working one.
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

17

Sunday, June 17th 2012, 12:30am

I just have a little Question about your geothermal Setup with Redpower: How did you solve your Bluetricity generation to run the pump? Is there a more elegant solution than just spamming thermopiles?

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18

Sunday, June 17th 2012, 8:45am

I just have a little Question about your geothermal Setup with Redpower: How did you solve your Bluetricity generation to run the pump? Is there a more elegant solution than just spamming thermopiles?
You need only 2 Thermopiles (1 Lava and 4 Water each like Direwolf20 does it) and a good timer (Sequenzer is perfect for that), because the Pump produces 4-5 times faster than the IC²-Pump can handle, so you have to use less blutricity if the RP-Pump is only working 1/4th of the time (instead of inefficent pumping all the time if its not needed). I personally use a 8 high Thermopiletower to get enough blutricity for an Alloyfurnace (Smelting rare Drops of Zombies and Pigmen and Rails from Mineshafts), a Retriever (automanned Watermill) and the mentioned Pump for the Geothermal.


Edit: Added your Question to the Q/A
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

19

Tuesday, June 19th 2012, 8:54pm

You can use RP2 light sensor to detect if there is lava under IC2 pump, and if there isn't, then activate RP2 pump (so no timer/sequencer). Although I don't know about CPU usage of light sensor.

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20

Wednesday, June 20th 2012, 7:05am

You can use RP2 light sensor to detect if there is lava under IC2 pump, and if there isn't, then activate RP2 pump (so no timer/sequencer). Although I don't know about CPU usage of light sensor.
GENIUS!!! I never thought of that. and the CPU-intensity is VERY LOW!!! I will add it!!!
I don't say, your "insert whatever here" is bad, I'm only showing possibilities for making it better.

GregTech Website

Patreon really helps me out, so if you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it full time, why not?

GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.

I'm also reachable on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account to contact me, for example. ;)
(I'm there almost every day, but only when I'm at my own computer, and yes you can drop bugs there too)

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