[GregTech-6][1.7.10] Moved to Website

  • He probably cant find those Diamond Veins that everybody else finds randomly.

    You should at least wait until you see how the alumina processing works before saying that it feels forced. There will always be changes and additions that alter the Gameplay a little. I might even also change the Shredder later if that really turns out to be a general problem.

    The easy Gem cutting into Plates was never supposed to be an earlygame part at all (it was actually more of a workaround for people who don't have GT6 Worldgen), that's why I made the Gem tipped Steel Pickaxes for example, to have the ability to get Gem Tools easier, once you can work Steel. I might do some other Gem related things aswell later.

    And as I said the "LV" Buzzsaw won't use Aluminium in it anymore, and can still be used to cut most things, just no longer Gems into Plates.

    The Aluminium Production itself was a nerf that was coming since ages, just like the Titanium one. I always wanted to at least somewhat mirror the IRL processes of getting them.

    I still like a flexible earlygame where nothing feels grindy, and that is still my vision, that's why I made those Ore bearing Rocks, so you can find most Veins easier. I just have to filter things that are actually not even supposed to exist in GT6 at all into the lategame, what is harder than you think it is. This Buzzsaw thing just reminded me of the Gem Plate thing.

    There is still plenty of things I would like to add to the earlygame, I just didn't have the time yet. Technically even Bumblebees count as earlygame, if you are smart enough to use them right. Even though some have a way too high Lifespan to be bred on anything other than a Server. There is still ones that only take 1 minute to die off if you are lucky.

  • Btw, if you don't like mining for Ores in general, I do plan to someday change up the Oregen A LOT.

    Also if you tend to do soft resets, cant you just take the things you dont agree with, with you like a Diamond Plate or two?

  • I actually like the idea of the aluminium change very much, so you

    don't have to defend that at all. The current bauxite-washing route

    is trivially exploitable to skip through most of LV electric, and plus

    complex chemical processing sounds fun!

    (Aside: and it might not, but especially if it helps to resolve the current tier-inversion, where you

    need to skip through to the Tier 3 electrolyzer to have enough production capacity of aluminium

    to build comfortably in Tier 2.)

    And the early game has been content rich and growing stronger for

    a long time. But my fear is that if you withhold too much of the

    essential and externally useful stuff from the early game, and in

    particular the early-industrial era, then players will feel compelled

    to whizz though the early game before they've seen it all.

    You see this over and over in many games, where a player will only

    build the very, very minimum in each tier to meet the requirements

    for the next - such as where a game has pickaxes, axes, armour and

    swords, all in bronze, iron, steel and adamantium. The player builds

    a bronze pickaxe, an iron pickaxe, a steel pickaxe, an adamantium

    pickaxe and then an adamantium axe, sword and armour set. More

    than half the game is skipped entirely. But if you put the shredder

    in with the electrical age, then that's how I'd play it. And it sounds

    like there are even more things you want to move later in the

    progression too.

    The other big problem you often see in similar progression systems

    is that you get left with mountains of worthless bronze, iron and

    steel by the time you hit the adamantium. GregTech has neatly

    averted this far better than most games, but I still have piles of

    useless diamonds back at my main base, just looking pretty...

    Scouring the world to hand-saw flawless and legendary diamonds

    isn't going to make that situation any less unsatisfying.

    Finally, we're talking about 4 aluminium nuggets. There is something

    so inherently unsatisfying about building a giant MacGuffium factory

    when all I need is one teaspoon of MacGuffium. By the time I've

    processed that first batch of aluminium ore, I'll have my 4 nuggets,

    I'll build my buzzsaw, and then I'll leave stacks of aluminium on the

    side until I eventually upgrade to Tier 2 Electric. Or worse I'll take it

    all and upgrade to Tier 2 immediately, bypassing most of Tier 1, so

    that now the (real) buzzsaw and shredder aren't steam age machines,

    but roughly contemporary with MV electric machines.

    Sorry, I'm getting dragged too far down the rabbit hole... I absolutely

    love the game as it is now, I'm going to keep playing it, I'll still check

    the changelog and the forums from time to time - I just don't think

    it's going in a direction that suits me.

    Also if you tend to do soft resets, cant you just take the things you dont agree with, with you like a Diamond Plate or two?

    But once you open those floodgates...

    Btw, if you don't like mining for Ores in general, I do plan to someday change up the Oregen A LOT.

    That sounds interesting, but I am mostly a fan of the current oregen.

    It's more the strict gating of progress behind rare ores, far too early in

    the game that I had a problem with. But yes, in general, when I'm playing

    GregTech, I want to be playing GregTech. If I wanted to spend hour after

    hour branch mining, I could play Vanilla. Give me a wrench and some

    pipes to play with and I'm much happier.

  • I don't like going out mining either all the time, that's why I am always trying to go the smart route and mine only where I need to in order to find the Vein I am looking for. Building a Giant Tunnel for Branch mining is something I usually don't do for GT6 Oregen.

    And as I said I might do something about that Diamond Situation to fix this Issue. I'm not trying to push everything into the late game unlike what you are saying. Most of the actual earlygame will stay earlygame for sure. It would be bad if there was nothing to use Steam Age Machines for.

  • I haven't yet seen new chemical recipes, but I want to remind that comfortable limit for LV electrolyzer is 44 EU/t (dense bronze boiler, steel turbine, LV dynamo).

    Don't forget you can combine EU sources in a way that you can't with RU/KU.

    It's one of the big advantages of the electrical age. If you have batteries, wire up

    some redstone logic to toggle the generators on and off to maintain an average

    of 64 EU/t generated. If you don't have batteries, pick a combination as close

    to 64 EU/t as possible, then bleed off the over-supply through cable losses. You

    can use steel, nichrome or constantan cables to drop more EU in a shorter space.

  • I wrote "comfortable" intentionally, and about a point in time before first aluminium (that means no MV dynamo, not sure about HV). Just single of each: burning box, boiler, turbine, dynamo. Also, it's possible to do some things using IC2 energy storage (tier 1 and tier2 in both IC2 "branches"). For some reason I don't want to.

  • Yeah, fair enough. I build identical parallel set-ups quite often,

    so I don't really see it as "uncomfortable" in itself, but it's not

    a solution you'd leave installed once you had the aluminium

    (when you'd build two transformers and shift generation to its

    own dedicated site). Whereas a single boiler/dynamo set-up

    might be neat enough to leave in place.

  • If you still have an LV buzzsaw that just can't cut diamond plates, then all you are doing is adding some more grind in the form of branch mining for diamonds to the early game. Right now you only need to find a single flawless diamond to hand cut into a plate to make the buzzsaw, then you can use 3 regular diamonds or 1 regular and one more flawless for the crusher and shredder. Your proposed changes just mean those regular diamonds aren't usable until later, and you have to grind more to find 3 flawless diamonds. Branch mining already is not fun so requiring more does not seem to be a good idea.

    And how about why do you get some aluminum from stone bauxite, but not sand? Shouldn't the byproducts be the same?

  • Ohh, I just read the changelog and so if you can use regular diamonds now to make the crusher, then the *only* thing you need a single diamond plate for is the shredder, then you can just hand saw a single flawless diamond to make the shredder, even before having an electrolyzer. You had to hand saw one flawless to get the buzzsaw before anyhow so there's no real change there. You just don't need the buzzsaw now, which actually is kind of an improvement. Or wait... did the shredder also require cobalt brass and thus aluminum?

  • Only the Buzzsaw required Aluminium (what isn't the case for the T1 Buzzsaw anymore), but you didn't/don't need a Diamond Plate for the Buzzsaw, the Saw needed Diamond DUST.

    The Crusher is now regular vanilla Diamond Gems, so the Shredder is the only thing needing a regular sized Gem Plate of Diamond. The Lathe needs a Tiny one that you can get from a chipped Diamond even.

    @Vadim: I cant prevent Worldgen from wrecking Villager Houses sadly.

  • Ahh right... hrm... so to recap, you need a T2 buzzsaw to more efficiently make diamond plates, and you can't make that until the electrical age. On the other hand you now only need one diamond plate for the shredder ( which you can still make in steam age by hand sawing a flawless diamond ). That doesn't seem to be much of a change at all. Kind of makes me wonder why you even bothered.

    On the other hand, it does seem to diminish the point of the buzzsaws. Before you needed a bronze one so you didn't waste diamonds making your ( mostly ) crusher and shredder. As a side bonus, you got the ability to make planks more efficiently. Now you can make a bronze saw for the planks, and by the time you can make a steel one to better make diamond plates, you no longer need them, since who isn't going to hand saw a flawless diamond to make the shredder before getting to electrical?

  • So why are you duplicating the functionality of forestry bees? Are you also planning on adding backpacks? If you did that, and let mud work like bog earth to make peat, then maybe forestry would not be needed? Otherwise if you want bees, then just use forestry and get the other things, but then bumblebees are redundant?

  • I wanted Bumblebees to have my own variant of a Bee System, where I have control over the Stuff that Forestry doesn't let you control at all. Sure, Forestry is one of the few actually good Mods out there, but I actually needed some Bee related Products in GT6, so I had to do a standalone thing anyways and I tried myself on making a Bee System that fits to the style of GT, where the Bees can actually die if you are doing things wrong.

    Mud for Bog Earth sounds like a good Idea, I might do that actually right now.

    As for the Backpacks: NOPE, not gonna add those.