[GregTech-6][1.7.10][Website][Patreon] Info, Support and Suggestions

  • Of course he did. Technically, that would mean any mod that crashes a client unintentionally, too, would cross that.

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  • Greg,


    I wanted to warn you about this one, since I know it'll come up and I didn't want anyone to get the impression I'm out to upset the balance here.


    TE added Bronze in the last patch. It's 3 Copper and 1 Tin for 4 Bronze. I do not wish to negotiate on this.


    Here's why: I had 1 Obsidian -> 1 Obsidian Dust in the Pulverizer. IC2-exp comes along and makes it 1 Obsidian -> 4 Obsidian Dust in the Macerator. Didn't mention it to me, didn't care, just did it. Same OreDict and everything. I realize you had *nothing* to do with that change.


    But here's the point. IC2 set the standard for Bronze long ago at the 4:2 ratio. I adjusted my Pulverizer and Hardened Glass recipe to make up for what they did to Obsidian. I didn't complain or throw a fit.


    So, I'm rearranging the terms for Bronze unilaterally, as IC2 did with my Obsidian. And they do not get to complain. Sorry if this causes a problem, but I am drawing the line here and I apologize if you end up conflicted with how to resolve this one. I suggest that you get IC2 to alter their Bronze recipe and enforce conservation of matter.


    This will also end one of the-long standing issues in the community. As with Redstone Flux, other Bronze-producing mods have agreed to support my standard already. It'd be great if you'd do the same.


    Thanks,
    ~KL


  • Well that was a kick in the balls :pinch:


  • Well that was a kick in the balls :pinch:

    Sorry if you feel that way. It's not the intention, and truth be told, this should not be a major issue in any way. That's kind of why I wanted to come here and post it, to at least make people aware that I'm not out to get Greg or anything here. However, I do believe in 3 + 1 = 4. I'm an engineer, after all. For a long time, Bronze has been all over the place, but 3 + 1 is the most common standard in Minecraft. I'm treating RP's take on bronze/brass as the same idea here; 3 + 1 = 4, since the lines DO blur a bit. "Bronze vs brass" is a real Google autocomplete.


    Technically, it'd be like 8 + 1 = 9 in reality, but that precludes Bronze being made in a player crafting grid and underuses tin in the recipe. It's not good for gameplay. This is about the optimal for allowing players to still craft it in the default 2x2 grid while maintaining resource diversity.


    If this causes some major upheaval in the balance of gameplay, then there's a pretty deep issue here that needs to be re-examined. The amount of copper and tin generated would be a good place to start. Bear in mind that TE's gen is by default about half that of IC2's.

  • Wasn't it better to talk it out w Player and Greg would then follow IC2 standart change?
    And creating alloys in crafting grid is bad idea. 3+1 is ok, but it should use so sort of smelter or dusts for it, not just ingots.

  • However, I do believe in 3 + 1 = 4. I'm an engineer, after all.

    I second this. Being an engineer as well ;)
    Conservation of matter does make sense even in minecraft. If you feel like its too cheap then change ore spawn chance in the configs or maybe nerf the ability of bronze items via config (if possible).
    And seriously people if you feel like somethings too easy you can always make it harder for yourself by not using these things :D (try making scrap only out of bronze for example :P)


    EDIT: I agree with r00teniy as well: You cant hammer together copper and tin ingots with ur fist! mixing the dusts together however is not so problematic.

  • Sorry if you feel that way. It's not the intention, and truth be told, this should not be a major issue in any way. That's kind of why I wanted to come here and post it, to at least make people aware that I'm not out to get Greg or anything here. However, I do believe in 3 + 1 = 4. I'm an engineer, after all. For a long time, Bronze has been all over the place, but 3 + 1 is the most common standard in Minecraft. I'm treating RP's take on bronze/brass as the same idea here; 3 + 1 = 4, since the lines DO blur a bit. "Bronze vs brass" is a real Google autocomplete.


    Technically, it'd be like 8 + 1 = 9 in reality, but that precludes Bronze being made in a player crafting grid and underuses tin in the recipe. It's not good for gameplay. This is about the optimal for allowing players to still craft it in the default 2x2 grid while maintaining resource diversity.


    If this causes some major upheaval in the balance of gameplay, then there's a pretty deep issue here that needs to be re-examined. The amount of copper and tin generated would be a good place to start. Bear in mind that TE's gen is by default about half that of IC2's.


    I know it wasn't intended to be an anti-GT measure and I see the logic in having recipes that make actually sense (I WTF'd so hard when seeing the GT Bronze recipe for the first time), I just hope that this won't ruin the balancing, since bronze mods will now have to offer a harder version by themselves (like forestry or TE with the nerfed generation as you mentioned) or they'll be too easy to use with GT. The bronze recipe was just a good measure to enforce the harder playstyle. Well It's nothing you can't fix in the long run.

  • Wasn't it better to talk it out w Player and Greg would then follow IC2 standart change?
    And creating alloys in crafting grid is bad idea. 3+1 is ok, but it should use so sort of smelter or dusts for it, not just ingots.

    It probably would have been better, but that wasn't a courtesy I was afforded. In retrospect, the Obsidian change was a minor inconvenience. I sucked it up and moved on. This should be no different, but given the over-reaction of the initial Forestry nerf/rebalance, I felt I had to mention it.


    BTW, it's still just dusts! 3 Copper + 1 Tin Dust = 4 Bronze Dust, which can be smelted as per normal. I have no plan on smashing ingots together to form a new one. That'd be Superman style stuff.

  • I agree with Lemming, this should not be a big deal. Gregtech should conform to some requests (Not that it never has)

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  • Sorry if you feel that way. It's not the intention, and truth be told, this should not be a major issue in any way. That's kind of why I wanted to come here and post it, to at least make people aware that I'm not out to get Greg or anything here. However, I do believe in 3 + 1 = 4. I'm an engineer, after all. For a long time, Bronze has been all over the place, but 3 + 1 is the most common standard in Minecraft. I'm treating RP's take on bronze/brass as the same idea here; 3 + 1 = 4, since the lines DO blur a bit. "Bronze vs brass" is a real Google autocomplete.


    Technically, it'd be like 8 + 1 = 9 in reality, but that precludes Bronze being made in a player crafting grid and underuses tin in the recipe. It's not good for gameplay. This is about the optimal for allowing players to still craft it in the default 2x2 grid while maintaining resource diversity.


    If this causes some major upheaval in the balance of gameplay, then there's a pretty deep issue here that needs to be re-examined. The amount of copper and tin generated would be a good place to start. Bear in mind that TE's gen is by default about half that of IC2's.


    But IC2 uses copper and tin much more than bronze (which really has limited use, other than mixed metal ingots). It's GT which adds a lot of use for bronze.


    So, Greg, maybe add Dense Bronze Plates now? Or Double Bronze Plates?

  • Making bronze 3+! would have almost no effect on GT, it's question about the fact that addon would change main mod standart. So i think it's better for Greg to persuade Player to change IC2 standard.

  • My opinions :
    IC² should change its obsidian dust to 1 -> 1 as KL suggested (By the way GT does not properly overwrite it, to output crushed obsidian when RC is installed).
    My bet is that IC² added that recipe not long ago, due the memory crystals, without having in mind the other mods.
    Making obsidian dust more difficult to obtain is not gonna affect IC² much, not at all, i think.


    IC² should change its bronze recipe to 3 +1 = 4, make use of Dense Bronze Plates in some recipes and/or add thick bronze plates, made with 2 bronze plates (4 with hammer).

  • My opinions :
    IC² should change its obsidian dust to 1 -> 1 as KL suggested (By the way GT does not properly overwrite it, to output crushed obsidian when RC is installed).
    My bet is that IC² added that recipe not long ago, due the memory crystals, without having in mind the other mods.
    Making obsidian dust more difficult to obtain is not gonna affect IC² much, not at all, i think.


    IC² should change its bronze recipe to 3 +1 = 4, make use of Dense Bronze Plates in some recipes and/or add thick bronze plates, made with 2 bronze plates (4 with hammer).

    As far as the Obsidian goes, it's not necessary - I already adjusted my recipes. Now I'd just be more annoyed at having to change them back. ;)


    Point is, it was a small change either way. Given that Glowstone -> Glowstone Dust x4, I'm willing to accept it as logical, without question. Let's just see similar logic applied to Bronze - the only alloy not obeying conservation of matter.

  • As far as the Obsidian goes, it's not necessary - I already adjusted my recipes. Now I'd just be more annoyed at having to change them back. ;)


    Point is, it was a small change either way. Given that Glowstone -> Glowstone Dust x4, I'm willing to accept it as logical, without question. Let's just see similar logic applied to Bronze - the only alloy not obeying conservation of matter.


    Would it not be possible to detect the amount of obsidian outputted by IC², and automagically alter the TE recipes?


    EDIT (off-topic): Well, post 1111.

  • Got an bug,downloaded 2 hours before.Running mcpc+.Not sure if Vanilla server has the same thing.
    Ignore me.I've fixed the bug myself.The internet went wrong and rhe archieve file got damaged.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Glease ().

  • The thing with GT and bronze is that a pretty considerable part of its early game revolves around bronze and bronze plates. The first thing that came into mind was adding double blates as SpwnX already suggested.


    Still, this way you get the opportunity for even harder dust recipes, 3+1=4 through the electric alloy smelter and something in between with the steam smelter. If double plates are added there's space for differences between hammer/steam/electric recipes too, ultilising the plate benders/compressors. Making bronze machines mid tier as far as bronze is concerned would give more incentive to make them. Then again all of this would be a ton of hassle just for bronze recipes :-/


    Plus, forestry bronze will leave the list of things that are changed without a config to revert.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by okaolias ().