Posts by Flaoua

    What is cobalt-60 for? Bear's videos had mentioned that you sometimes get it from washing copper and it is radioactive, but it seems you can now only get it from centrifuging refined cobalt ore.

    Yes it's been changed. Washing Copper was a gamble, like russian roulette.


    Awesome.. I have been struggling to get stainless steel to make the bath just to be able to make some sealed wood and use creosote to make torches.

    The Sifter change is even worse: I've sifted a gazillion Sand Coal just days before this XD

    Welp, at least I have my Gravel Iridium waiting to be sifted, so I guess it's not that bad

    I'm pretty sure I've found two separate veins of it, in fact. Didn't really bother about mining them since I had plenty of nickel already.

    I meant as lone Small Ores. I'm mining desperately to find a nickel vein (so much invar to do !), but I keep stumbing on other veins.

    I had two bronze steam boilers powering a bronze turbine working a bronze roll bender. I added two more boilers to my line in preparation to power a steel turbine and centrifuge to work sluice juice for some chromium. I realized the small bronze pipes would not handle 4 boilers worth of steam, so I set up the roll bender to make some standard bronze pipes to expand the steam trunk. The bender will not run as long as the two new, unlit boilers are attached to the line. As soon as I break the steam trunk going to the last two unlit boilers, the bender fires right up. It's like the unlit boilers are sucking steam out of the lit ones. Is this intentional?

    Unlit boilers will "eat" steam yeah, that's why I always isolate their pipe from the mainline when they're not powered up.
    I should make that a note in the wiki now that I think about it...

    Dead-end branch pipes can divert steam.

    I have a hunch they do just more that divert. I think they also eat steam, at least the "open" ones (you know when you just extend a pipe in any direction with a wrench, it makes a hole in the pipe, that's what I call "open").
    I've had several "wtf ?" moments when running several machines at a time with several boilers so I'm not sure about that but there's something fishy.

    Also had issues running a Bronze Centrifuge on a Steel Turbine, but that because I did produce more Steam than necessary and I was not aware of the "single pipe bandwidth" gotcha. Theoretically, it should work.

    Every ore block I mentioned except sulfur is found in overworld veins.

    I stand corrected.
    EDIT: You found Nickel Ore ? I've yet to find at least a Small Ore one...

    Oh man... It seems I gave people too much Freedom by letting them paint the Barrels in any RGB Color they want, instead of autopainting them... Too bad I am not gonna take away that Freedom at all. :P

    I stand corrected...twice.

    Gonna paint all the drums, then !

    There's also small ores. And gold (in mainly magnetite veins). And nickel. And uranium. Supposedly plutonium, though I've never seen that. And three different (elusive) elements in the platinum group veins (which I have yet to find). Neodymium. Molybdenum, in extremely rare veins. Phosphorus. Silver in Galena veins (and lead but that turns up all over). You can even find thorium in the rare and mostly useless beryllium veins. And sulfur veins are listed for the Nether.

    ...Quite a few elements can be found directly in veins. But not all of them, to be sure.

    I meant as Ore Blocks, but yeah as soon as you start washing/sluicing, you get a lot of "elemental" ores as byproduct.

    Yeah I was only talking about Overworld. Nether and End have unique veins (and lacks a lot of the Overworld ones) that might comprise "element" Ores I surely have forgotten.

    Did my Wooden tank (filled from the ocean near my base with a Drain covered pipeline), works great.
    Did also my Stainless Steel Tank for Distilled water.

    Now on to the Distillery tower...256 Stainless Steel to make, and I'm not counting the drums that I'll need to store the processed stuff, argh !

    Note: Although I really like the new Stainless Steel drums, I miss the colored information of the fluid therein. I understand there might be some issues around that, but what about a glass cover that would show this ? Or even some kind of name tag ? (yeah like naming animals XD). It's just that when I'm juggling with drums it's a bit of a pain. Maybe I'm just too used to EU Drums after all lol

    Well depending on how you discover a vein, you can sometimes miss the secondary Ores. Ruby is listed as a OreSporadiclyInbetween, so you have to look for the layers inside the vein.
    If you just stay on the vein surface, you'll miss plenty.

    I had this issue with Tantalite because it's a OreSporaticlyAround, so mining straight through a Manganese vein (Grossular/Spessartine/Pyrolusite) yield way less Tantalite than mining on the vein edges

    So, to conclude my Engines experiment, I've finally settled for this configuration:

    A Small Titanium Pipe powering a Titanium Engine which give KU to a Steel Crusher.

    With my Dense Invar Liquid BB/Strong Invar Boiler combo I get 128 Steam/t, and with the Chromium BB/Titanium Boiler I get 224 Steam/t, for a grand total of 352 Steam/t

    Engine is red, as shown, and one Lignite Ore get crushed in a little less than 6 seconds from start to finish (output included).

    Pure joy.

    Now on to Tanks ! I've done the Wood tank that provide water to my Sluice on the right side, I will now take care of my Stainless Steel Tank for Distilled Water...104 Plates, that's gonna take a while :3
    And I also got to make Stainless Steel drums to replace EU ones. So much Stainless Steel :3

    Chromium can be primarily obtained through sluicing Crushed Ruby (and additionally by centrifuging Purified Ruby but it's wayyyyy more costly). Ruby/Redstone veins are quite common (and beautiful, but that's personal taste :D)
    Manganese can be primarily obtained through Spessartine and Pyrolusite so look for these veins.

    Both of these veins can be found in the Overworld, btw.

    As a rule of thumb don't hesitate to look into WoldGeneration.cfg file to see the veins list, their Ore composition, the dimension they spawn in, their generation height range (although chunk mining makes that a moo point most of the time), and finally their spawn probability (which I deducted is somewhat derived from their RandomWeight).

    It can be a little long to write down the Ore that have a specific material as a by product, but combining this habit with chunk mining can be very useful habit in the long run.

    And, except some very basic stuff (Copper, Tin, and so on), elements do not spawn directly as Ore. I've yet to find a single Iron Ore, for instance.

    For one more that you've got the lead in line, does the crusher run with lead and titanium only? That should be 224 steam which (disregarding the pipe constraint) I'd expect to just barely be enough.

    Barely but enough: it did work. I started with a stopped Engine so it did go up until the greenish zone and then the Crusher started

    Perhaps try again with two lengths of Small Invar Fluid Pipe?

    It did confirm what you wrote: the boilers started to pressure up like crazy and I had to stop the experiment because they were going to blow up.

    So limiting work with 2 pipes but not one. That's also good to know, especially when you're mixing pipes of different materials !
    Also, it means that you can't limit bandwidth with just one pipe, so it's especially important for people like me who have a mainline of big pipes (I have 20 Large Bronze Pipes for that purpose) branching with smaller pipes: it does not work that way.

    And this explains some overdrive whining I head from my Turbines where they shouldn't have.

    Damn, now I have to redo my whole factory layout XD

    This sounds like a more fun way to answer your question than to just dissect and post the algorithm...


    Even though I will have to rethink my whole steam production layout, I really enjoy the "let's figure out what's going on" of these experiments.

    I've parsed the Changelog and beside a mention that Engines can go up to double their KU (my bad, I started to play after this update and didn't remember this piece of information from the whole bunch you start with), I didn't see nothing about the pipe bandwidth, or anything related about their behaviour in this case.

    The "doubled steam" output from Boilers when they are at 3/4 could be a clue, but I though it was for a tick or two to adjust from flickering. But in any case, it should not impact pipes.

    So there's still to be understood !

    Does the machine run at all if you only fire the bronze and titanium boilers, leaving out the steel?

    Yup :

    For the record, here is with the Steel BB/Boiler combo :

    It's stable because it keep trying to go a little redder and goes back immediately.

    As you can see in both captures, the Steel Crusher works (albeit slowly in the first example of course).
    And it's indeed a Small Invar Pipe.
    And pressure does not go up in the boilers: I just put Gibble-O-Meter on the boiler and their pressure was stable.

    So then I wondered: how about adding a small Lead Boiler/BB to the party ?


    Not only did it work, it was stable.
    As you can see pressure did kick back to the boilers but only to some degree, and then it stabilized.

    Engine was red, as stated, and the "Shh" sound was countinuous. As a result the Steel Crusher spent around 7 sec to complete one Gold Ore crush cycle from start to complete finish (including outputting the goods).

    A really interesting experiment in the end :)

    We do, though. It was reported some time back that a bronze steam engine can power 16 KU/t machines with enough steam. (I think it was specified as working at 64 l/t, but I may be misremembering. I'd use that, but I'd already built a steel one and haven't needed a second yet.)

    I remember that, but I was not working on Engines at that time, so I noted that indeed something was off in my/our understanding of what's going on. Now that I think about it, I have had almost the same situation during my regular Survival game, but I was discovering a lot of stuff at once ("you have to crush ores with a hammer, now ? WTF") and disregarded it as inexperience.

    I can also say that feeding two bronze boilers into a steel steam engine doesn't make it fail, at least if they're lightly calcified. So I've tested nearly 50% over-power and had the engine continue to work. (I think I switched over to lead boilers on invar boxes at the same time as switching to distilled water, so I haven't run a steam engine steadily at exactly 50% overpower.)

    Well, it seems in line with the gist of my analysis, but what color do "50% overpower" is ? Green ? Brown ?
    That's my main grip about this: There's no way to know. No Magnifying glass info, no working cover that I know of that could display this. Everything I can compute is based on Ore crushing and relative color of the engine

    ...and the Engine sound, actually.

    Working with overpowering an Engine with sound had shown me how satisfying it can be. From the slow "Shh....Shh" working up like a steam train to the more expected "ShhShhShh" is awesome. I know it may be difficult to animate the internal piston moving, but it would be icing on the cake :D

    So I'm sure there's at least one problem with your calculation there, and maybe two. The definite one is that we know the linear cycle has an effect on performance, so the cycle time for the job is definitely not just a matter of the total energy cost divided by the power input. The fuzzy one is whether you can get efficient overclocking at all. I've been working on the assumption that giving a machine more power than required for the job doesn't reduce the processing time (except tier overclocking, where applicable) and wastes the extra power instead, but I haven't tested this. If I'm right about that, the calculation wouldn't apply even for turbines. If you have tested this one I'd be interested to know the results...

    Will do. Comparing the two energy types was what got me into the confusion, but now that I have more data on KU, it might indeed be interesting to compare the Engines behaviour with Turbines.

    I honestly don't know, if that's really a 200 l/t small Invar pipe, how the engine can run the crusher. 200 steam, at 58% efficiency for the titanium engine and the standard 2l/GU steam-energy relationship should generate 58 KU/t and be unable to operate the machine by my best understanding. Of course, you also should have at least one of your boilers building up pressure and eventually exploding if run long enough, since you're generating 104 l/t net excess steam which has to build up in the boiler side of the choke point. Are you sure it's not a regular invar pipe good for 600 l/t? (I can't tell from the screenshot, really.) If it was, then I'd expect the 304 l/t of steam to generate 88.16 KU/t, easily enough to run the crusher. EDIT: But looking at the texture that sure looks like a small pipe, so...I'm stumped, really.

    Me too, and I do confirm it's a Small Invar Pipe :3
    EDIT: Pressure did not go up in boiler, actually, and that's what bothers me most: it was stable for a long time (5+min), so that means the Engine did consume all the steam, although it was connected with this Small Invar Pipe

    I'd also predict that the engine would be able to run the crusher starting at 221 l/t of steam input, though it would be running at a lower frequency and thus might be slower to complete a cycle. Does the machine run at all if you only fire the bronze and titanium boilers, leaving out the steel?

    I did not test that. But I will, now that I have the setup installed. My prediction is that it should just barely make it work (240 Steam should give around 69KU/t, because of 240*193/56 = 69).

    EDIT: And I should say: I do know that narrow pipes causing boilers to back up and explode is a thing. I lost three bronze boilers and a firebox that way once, before I got a bigger pipe in place to handle it.

    Yeah I watch the gauge all the time because of that. It can quickly get out of control, especially when you plug in/out pipes for different production lines.

    That would be the main drawback of a multiple (4+) low pressure boiler array: low internal storage means trouble, especially if you use more stronger burning boxes.

    I don't really know why you'd expect otherwise

    Because we have no information on this whatsoever, so we rely on guessing. And I surely don't consider myself reliable on this matter.

    I don't have your experience running linear engines very fast. But what I expected the frequency effect to be is the process only being able to complete at the end of the cycle regardless of what point in the cycle it actually hits its required processing time.

    Welp here's an example :

    A Titanium Engine powering a Steel Crusher (crushing Gold Ore FWIW). The Invar pipe in the middle is the 200 L/t one.

    Titanium Engines are stated to take ~193 Steam/t and output 56KU/t. When I took the tooltip at face value I thought that since 56 is lower than 64, it should not power a Steel Crusher.
    This is true only when the Engine is green, but become false when you go higher.

    My first test was to blast 1024 Steam/t with a Strong/Dense Tungsteenseel BB/Boiler Combo. Engine went to red, did power the Crusher a bit, and at some point shut down, so I concluded that although there is a 200 L/t pipe, it still managed to accumulate enough Steam (through a mere 7/t ? Why not, after all, it did took its time to go up in colors...)

    My second test, seen in the capture, was to increment less and less by adding smaller and smaller BB/Boiler to see when I would managed a "red stabilized" Engine.

    For my Titanium Engine, I have to combine, as shown, a Titanium Boiler (192 Steam/t, thank to the Chrome BB), a Steel Boiler (64 Steam/t) and a Bronze (48 Steam/t). So a grand total of 304 Steam/t.

    I've been running this setup for 5 minutes and it works almost perfectly: around 9 seconds to crush one Ore (from start to "stuff have been outputted completely and another process started"). It's even faster than using a Strong Chromium Engine (which would desperately stay green in this case, hanging for a good 7 seconds to finish outputting its result).

    Now crunching these numbers into my calculators gives me 8192 GU / (9s * 20 ticks) = 45,5 KU/t

    Not ~56 KU/t, and not for ~193 Steam, or maybe I'm missing the signification of "~" here
    Additionnaly, I still don't understand how the Small Invar Pipe (200 L/t) was not limiting the bandwidth. Or maybe I did not understood that as weel.

    All that I know it that I went way overboard when building my Strong Chromium Engine (that's on me, I'll recycle for Stainless Steel since we need a ton of it nowadays) and it might be a better idea to work with several, smaller but composable Boilers, than a few powerful ones.


    but will the system work with that when its listed limit is 192 l/t, or will it block/explode due to overdriving?

    If it's just over, it will block and whine eventually, not explode, which can be confusing because a machine will either whine because it's not powered enough (but enough to start a bit of its process) and when it's powered too much.

    For RU, machines seems to have a more understandable margin because your machines progress is directly proportionnal to its turbine speed, up to an extent of course.
    For KU, I've understood yesterday that it's not true: machine progress will be the same but the process will hang at the end to compensate (IIRC it's directly related to ON and OFF phases of the internal piston), so the trick is get just right under the limit. It might even be interesting to voluntarily calcify a boiler just a little bit to adjust its steam output for this very pupose. I might try this once, just for fun.
    Now that I think about it, I think that the KU mentionned in engines tooltip does not say the whole truth: When I did input enough steam to make my Strong Chromium Engine go red, I could not use my Steel Crusher with it (kept whining because of overpower). So I concluded that making it go red made it produce more KU than it was stated for: that's the formula I want to clarify :)

    In the end RU is easier to manage/adjust but you can get way more from a KU machine if you do it right.

    I'll forget not to use my normal crucible and set
    my whole workshop on fire...

    Isn't that the whole point of GregTech ? :3
    Last time I got confused between Coal dust and Dark Ashes. When I tried to make Steel it did NOT go well...

    I finally understand Engines...I thought that we should keep them in the greenish status range, but that's wrong. We have to keep them in the red, while not overpowering them, which cause the safety shutdown.

    I took me a while (and some time on Creative) but I finally understand why no matter how hard I try, I can't correctly power a Steel Crusher with a Strong Chromium Engine, or a Bronze Crusher with a Titanium Engine.
    Even though it works, it's just not that efficient at all.

    Back to the calculator, then !
    I'll update the wiki with some practical example then, because since it's totally different from RU/t in some way (the color status thing, mostly), it deserves a proper explanation.

    The new item barrel seems awesome, and its capacity makes me think that it might be a better option to turn every dust/small dust/tiny dust into 1/72th pile and store everything in that format to avoid having to handle different dust sizes in my chests...and I could do that with a single dust funnel.

    Interesting !


    Um, no, a tiny bronze pipe carries 75 l/t of steam. Steam is translated to RU at a 3:1 ratio, you need 192 l/t. A small steel pipe would (over) do it, I use a medium bronze pipe. You could use a tiny tungstensteel pipe if you really wanted to. EDIT: Any pipe that will carry 192 l/t of steam will also carry more than that, so there's certainly no simple way to achieve that rate by choking the flow. I can reliably run machinery at that rate nonetheless.

    (I'd use steel machinery for this if I had to, but it turns out I can use the Invar turbines and bronze centrifuge that I already had lying around, so I'm happy to get out of building expensive new hardware I don't need yet.)

    Yeah you're right about the pipes. Theoretically it should be possible to combine some pipes to add up to 200L/t and only be bothered to handle the additional 8L/t that comes with it. Adjusting the BB/Boiler combination is also another trick. IIRC Titanium BB + Titanium boiler results in 192 Steam/t, so you can use any >200L/t pipe to get your Steel Turbine + Bronze Centrifuge. Of course we're talking about Distilled Water Boiler or else it's a moo point.

    I just have to figure out the Engine underlying mechanic, now. Because I crush stuff in 2sec and have to wait 7 seconds to get it out XD