Posts by Cheapshot

    That's why I said it becomes a matter of one persons word against another to the point where it becomes pointless. Maybe something could have happend, like the email he drafted and sent got spam filtered or something. I read it so I know it existed. It doesn't really matter though because it was all months ago and people should really move on. I think you probably want that as well, at least from the way I interpreted it post. I was surprised to see people still arguing about it, and I probably wouldn't have stepped in to say anything if a lot of the stuff people were saying wasn't just made up.

    As for the downside to not having stuff in the launcher, you wouldn't experience it. The people who are experiencing the downside are all the people who are no longer using and enjoying forestry who were before. It also doesn't matter though. It's your mod. For what its worth, we all loved it and still think it's great.

    So you don't see a problem from stealing from a store then either? Cause that's sorta what they were doing when they didn't have permission.
    It's the mod makers' intellectual property, they have full control of what can happen with it. The tekkit guys were stealing, period. They claim they asked for permission from SirSengir for Forestry. They lied as they never did. SirSengir asked for it to be removed, they didn't. They only removed it when he forced them to by adding code to be technic/tekkit hostile. So yeah.. there's your problems with them. They're a bunch of liars and thieves and they see no problems with this.

    edit: the full story, straight from SirSengir

    That's interesting. I know for sure Kaker tried to contact him (post inclusion but attempted none the less) so I guess it just becomes a matter of one persons word against another, and thus doesn't matter. It's nice of him to compliment me though. Even Sengir recognizes that I'm a straight shooter, so you know that I haven't and wont be bullshitting or lieing to you here. Honestly its useless to talk about the forestry incident because both we and sengir have moved on. He never actually asked for it to be removed, which he doesn't deny. We did make attempts at peace but it just wasn't meant to be, and sengir hid that attack code in there. Our opinion is that his attack was missguided. We don't think he should have attacked technic users since his problem was with the technic team itself. He ended up hurting thousands of people who enjoyed his mod, which goes against every thing a modding community should stand for. And those people wont trust him anymore. Love us or hate us, we want positive changes in the modding community. Anything that punishes a person who enjoys your mod is disgusting in our eyes. Espeiclally when all this stuff is free.

    The one thing I see wrong with Technic right now though is the fact that assuming SirSengir was truthful, he claims that forestry downloads went up either by about 200% or to 200% following his forceful removal from Technic, do you believe that the downloads were from people using the pack (unikely given your claim that most people turn to Technic as a result of lack of ability to install mods) or from the publicity generated from the incident that is technically (no pun intended) attributed to the pack? If it is the latter, doesn't that mean that Sengir got more recognition in leaving than he did while his mod was put in the pack?

    The problem here is context. That number sounds really good when you look at it. A 200% increase in downloads is a good thing, but not when you consider context. One of the benifits of technic is that it lets more people then were previously able to download and play mods. We mirrior so that we can serve the files to literally a million people. It's something that would be too expensive and impracticle for modders on their own to be expected to do, but we have the resources to offer it for a collection of modders at once, and our goal is to make the good mods as popular and accessable as possible. If you consider that sengirs traffic only doubled when we stopped including him, you have to also consider that it's not a 200% increase, its a massive decrese. It means that hundreds of thousands of people who enjoyed his mod didn't go and download it from him after its removal from technic. By all means, his download link should have broken from the sudden surge of traffic, because forestry is great and an awesome mod. Problem was is that he burned the people who enjoyed it and the minecraft community isn't very forgiving. Believe me, I know that all too well. ;)

    All this stuff is history though, its pointless to keep rehashing and chewing the same drama like flavourless gum. It's time to just move on.

    The drama is kind of still going on as evidenced by the whole 4+ threads devoted to just this

    Problem is, most of the stuff carrying the drama in these threads is actually just made up. I'm thinking a few people are die hards and don't want to let things move on. In reality though, we're not doing anything that people can really get mad about anymore, Technic is getting much more professional and legit, so people are grasping at straws and spinning what they can to keep it going. I'm hoping the false rumors keep getting more and more outlandish to the point where I get my own folk legend. That would be rad maximum.

    Also I would assume I'm allowed to post here because Alblaka is a cool dude and these aren't the BTW forums. I'm just a person and these are my opinoins. I'm not here respresenting technic.

    The way that I see it, if they can't do it themselves (as in take 5 minutes to watch videos that explain it on youtube or god forbid ask somebody knowledgeable like GregoriusT how to install a mod) then yes, why should they deserve to use it?

    Why see it that way? It's fairly unresonable and serves no real good. People see technic or tekkit and they want to play all those amazing mods together, but it gets trickier and trickier with each additional mod you want. Sure throwing in one mod is no big deal, but a dozen or more? A large (probably) majority of these people are children, who can't even get Java working properly on their computers. It's expecting too much of them. I don't blame them for wanting help and I see no real reason not to give it to them other then senslessly punishing them for not being as intelligent or computer savvy as us.


    While this is true, are people from The Clusterfuck That Shall Not Be Named (I'm going to abbreviate that from now on) really donating to the modders? I'm pretty certain I remember someone saying that they knew a C.T.S.N.B.N. user that didn't even know what mod diamond pipes belonged to, is he going to send any money buildcraft's way? Probably not. The main problem I have with T.C.T.S.N.B.N is not really the copyright issues (I will not be discussing the legal grey area here), it's the overall ignorance of the mods, I would go so far as to say that 70-90% of its users don't know what it is like to work their way up from scratch going from vanila to tier 1 to tier 2 all the way up to mfsu and mass fab for IC2 stuff, or created systems of redpower mechanisms, why should they when they can just EE up everything?

    The problem here is your expectations. That person who doesn't know they're using build craft isn't Technics fault. Would you get mad at Steam if someone said "I sure am enjoying all these games I bought on the steam summer sale, thanks steam for making them!" or "I wish I knew who made them!". No, you'd call the person an idiot for thinking that or for not just looking to see. Like steam, technic isn't just a pack anymore, it is now a platform dedicated to helping peoples excellent work reach as many end users as possible. Technic doesn't create oblivious people. When a million extra people wander in, they just come along in the crowd. Not something that can be helped. I hate making comparisons because they're never perfect, but steam is a somewhat similar situation just on a larger scale and with product and money involed. Techinic is of course far less serious.)
    Take a look at the technic site right now. It's beautiful and makes every possible effort to direct people to the modders responsible for the work and to help people understand who's responsible for what. Links to MCforms posts, websites, wikies, help sections, it's all there. There's even a big donate page linking directly to each modder with a paypal. If you make the effort to hand someone a dictonary, you can't be blamed if they don't know what a word you told them means. There are just going to be oblivious people who wont make the effort to educate themselves. They wouldn't have made the effort to get all the mods working together on their own, and they probably wouldn't have donated to anyone either. At least they're enjoying mods, which should be the goal of a modding community at the end of the day. I wouldn't say those people are anywhere close to the majoirty, and so very far from made up on the spot numbers like 70%-90%. At least with all the community building for technic, with the forums and site and server sections, theres a chance those people will learn about the mods they're using by playing with others. It's just a thing that takes time. Technic, is just one of the many ways the modding community becomes more popular and gets bigger and stronger. Growing pains are to be expected. It was a rockey drama fest, but things honestly seem to have found their groove.

    I like tekkit :)

    All the conspiracy theory/ assumption based outrage/ and bandwagoning is kind of a downer though. I've counted quite a few things people are getting upset about that aren't even true. Take a step back guys. None of the modders or the technic team require an army. There's not even a battle anymore. Everyone would be of a lot more use building amazing things and playing everyones mods rather then wasting their time.

    I like technic because of how much potential it has. Anyone can make a mod pack, but now Tecnic is a whole community and infrastructure. Like a mini Steam for mods. It exposes peoples awesome mods to more then a million people and counting, and ends up attracting more talented and cool modders to the scene. My personal facourite part is that It makes it really easy to run really large modded servers. There are tekkit servers with more then a hundred people on because its so easy to connect. Before it was mosly small servers because only people with the knowledge to put all the mods together could get on them. And don't start on that "if they cant do it themselves they don't deserve to" line, its a childrens game for gods sakes. Loosen up and have fun, and let others have fun too.

    Every time you donate to a modder, you have more positive effect and do more good then a lifetime of worthless forums debate.

    Also Erusprime. I don't know where you got that 20,000 number from? You're not involved in Technic so did you just round up forums users? That number isn't reflective of the number using technic or the launcher. Either way, please don't try and start dick waving matches with people the Technic team actually have permissions from. I don't know why you thought that would be a good idea. You're quite active on our forums, so you should know better.

    More to the point. The views of a bunch of kids/adults/combo who play Minecraft do not represent the views of the technic team in any way shape or form.We can't go around policing the internet, nor do we want to, nor should we be expected to, but holy would people stop dragging pointless drama all over the place? That goes for everyone. I don't care if you hate technic, or love it. Having giant uninformed arguments where no one really knows what they're talking about is pointless and childish. It's not like a heated forum argument ever changed anyone's minds anyway. It's hard enough for US to do that without the entire internet involved.

    All the donation links on the technic donation page are the links each modder had on their respective websites for donations. None of the donation links direct to any account owned or related to us, that's just silly and you should be ashamed for trying to troll like that. It even says who you're donating to when you do so. It's very destructive to the community. Please donate to all the modders and show them your support.

    As for bug reports related to using technic or tekkit, feel free to send them all to We made and pay for a whole website so that modders don't have to deal with being annoyed by bug reports as much.

    Hey. I started working on this when I saw the blog post about adding booze, but I unfortunatly only finished now after it's already been put in. For what it's worth though I'd like to suggest expanded brewing, to flesh it out a bit. This is something I've wanted in MC for a while.

    Even this is simplified from real brewing, but most of the main steps are there. Boiling and fermenting are very important or else it just isn't beer at all. It's wheaty hop water. Some steps could be removed for the sake of simplicity like the milling stage, but it would be a good use of the macerator.

    I did a mock up here.

    [IMG width=600][/IMG]
    Full Size:

    The textures were just placeholders I made but I'd hand them over if you want to work on this and expand on brewing.

    Edit: Images don't seem to be displaying. I guess you need to use the links.

    Let's see you expect FC to recode everything in BTW so that it plays nice with other mods? Have you any idea how much work that is?

    Besides the entire idea behind a mod pack is dumb, all it's going to lead to is people begging the authors to stop adding blocks to their mod so that they can use other mods.

    I don't expect anything is what I'm saying. My money is on that project not getting very far for exactly that reason. FC wont want to change any of his code and Spacetoad will have a real hard time. Maybe not though. We'll see.

    Also no way man. Have you seen the SMP bukkit version of Technic? It's awesome. You can have as many blocks as you'd like. We've got mods upon mods on our server. Luxury minecrafting right there.

    Well, if you're upset about what I've said then I apologize. As for my views on Spacetoad? What I said is only my own speculation and opinion. I said so. I could be wrong, but I'm waiting to see. No need to get all upset over some words on the internet. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I'm just pointing out an alternate viewpoint, since the conversation began to lean toward the usual FlowerChild white knighting. Being involved with technic, I get to experience the finer points of the modding community up close, and honestly they aren't pretty. The word community is a mislabel. Every change to a mod gets misconstrued as a jab at another modder. Egos rub constantly. Every modder hates at least one other modder. Seeing all the drama up close? I'm amazed mods even get made. You'll have to forgive me if that tints my opinion.

    In the end it doesn't really matter. Technic pack works on getting permissions, and has had a lot of success there. Technic benefits the modders involved substantially. What the modders included in technic pack do is their own affair and no one else's. They can sue, or demand apologies or whatever they like, but in the end its their business. KakerMix hasn't recieved any summons to international claims court, and instead spends a good deal of his time speaking with modders and trying to promote them and the community. Everyone arguing all the time doesn't help or do anything. The whole situation reminds me of a fantasy football management game. Does not effect real life football.

    I haven't read all the points but here is my view on the whole thread.
    Personally I believe the technic pack creators should give an apology for not getting permission, as it seems that they think it's all a big misunderstanding. Even if the mod creators are ok with it now, it doesn't mean it was alright to put it in a modpack to begin with. The argument of it growing quickly out of control does not stand as a defense, but rather an explanation. I feel they should be apologizing for their inability to not ask for permission and move on.

    How can you give your view on the whole thread if you haven't read it? It's only four pages long and very slow moving. The permissions issue has already been cleared up extensively.

    Well, seeing as the Official MCF has 3 sections and a subsection devoted entirely to modding, I'd say it's fine.

    Also: I had originally spelled modding as nodding. Pretty funny in that context.

    As mentioned before, the minecraft TOS, despite what is said about modding, has an area which literally makes modding a violation of Mojangs TOS, and according to locational laws, it may even be illegal to download them inside Sweden. Woops! I'd like to know if they got a lawyer to write the TOS or of notch just copied and pasted the TOS together from google results. MinecraftNotch We know that it was Jeb who got notch to grudgingly allow mods. Haha, Who knows? He may even have put that line in there as an ace to shut down modders if he ever changed his mind.

    I'm amazed that this is still going. I thought I was pretty straight forward and covered everything but you are all just ignoring facts to make up wild reasons to get angry. Listen. There are people in here working very hard to latch on to anything they can rage about. Just let it go and relax. This is minecraft modding, not international politics. It is not worth getting your neckbeard in a knot. The guys making technic have been getting permissions from more people in the pack all the time, and it will probably be to a point where that's no longer a problem sooner then you think. I've already addressed the initial problem with permissions so that shouldn't be a point of argument anymore either. Technic has done far more good then harm, and the harm is all in the past anyway with only the good now. Whats the point of raging about it?

    Technic isn't making modders go un noticed. In fact, technic is doing the exact opposite. KakerMix specifically looks for talented modders to give a leg up to by getting them a level of instant exposure that technic provides. If you are someone who makes industrial themed mods and you are talented, you WILL get technic exposure if you're cool and agree. KakerMix does infact ask for permissions now. PowerCrystals I know really appreciated being included in technic and dedicated all his modding time to improving it. It's sad to see him run out of time for it, but the fact that he's turning over his keys to technic shows how much he supports it. He's a very cool guy and there should be no speculation in here about his intentions, since he literally is in the same IRC channel as me.

    As for spacetoad and flowerchild. We all know what they're really doing. They've formed a childish alliance because of attention problems, it's really as simple as that. FC literally quit forge after complaining about Eloraam and her involvement with forge, and someone pointed out that according to change logs, he'd been doing nearly nothing for quite a while and Eloraam was putting out huge fixes and changes constantly. While I know that for sure, I can't say the same for spacetoad since he's far less vocal and aggressive then FC, and can only speculate based off what's been going on. What seems likely is that since Eloraams Redpower has been adding a lot of functionality that makes BC a bit redundant in some areas. It's not an intentional dig from Eloraam but its still true. She's taken a lot of his popularity, especially since she's become so involved in technic and forge. They might as well call their new mod pack "Please don't use RedPower!"

    I honestly think Spacetoad is in for a surprise though. I've got nothing against him really, I enjoy his mod when I play technic. I just think he's made a misguided decision. Especially if he's done this for the reason I stated before, because I honestly don't even think the mods fit thematically together well anyway.

    The reason I feel pain for him here is because BTW's was removed from Technic for a way more serious reason then permissions, or the wolf torture and S&M crap. It was removed for a big reason. It was coded terribly and wouldn't work with anything. Literally broke the game trying to make it compatible with other mods. His mod is like a giant barbed net that wraps around minecraft. You try to add anything and you get cut, you try to take it off and it pulls important things with it. If you load it with other mods, you literally can't decide you don't like it and turn it off to just play the other ones, you have to remove everything, do a clean install, and redownload all the other mods and install them. Here's why. It's got hooks into things that don't even make sense. The game would crash every time lightening struck because it broke fire, and turning BTW's off would actually REMOVE fire. And don't even think about trying to play BTW's without all the weird wolf hate and creepy fetish things. According to the code those are vital. Spacetoad has his work cut out for him.

    When the mods update, a new version of technic comes out, and I'm saved all the annoyance of redownloading a bunch of different annoying downloads. Bonus, I have the option of trying out different mods that are included that I may have overlooked.

    If you don't like some of the mods in technic, turn them off. If you want different mods then are in technic and want to use technic as well, there are a ton of places to ask for help getting around minecrafts annoying item ID problem. If you don't want to use technic at all? Then don't. No one forces you to. You are free to go get all those mods on your own like you do. Whats the point of crapping all over everyone who doesn't want to have to do that though? I don't understand the weird moralistic mindset people are making up to apply to minecraft mods. It just makes people seem like lunatics.

    Don't worry about it. It takes strong character to admit a mistake or change your mind and I respect you for it. If it's any consolation to anyone, speaking for myself since I can't speak for anyone but myself, I wish we could have gotten permission, but like I said before, it just got away like a rocket and it was too late. I'm glad it's been cleared up for you and perhaps others who might casually read this. Unfortunately people don't usually care to hear the other side of the story. Thank you for having an open mind.

    If you care to spread it please do. The faster people stop sharpening their pitchforks for no reason, the more the community can grow. It may not have been the initial intention, but since technic took off and reached so many, the goal has become 100% about trying to bring modders and their work together. Of course looking back at the rest of this thread, you'll understand why this has been so difficult.

    There's been some success recently with so many people jumping in to help out and with Yogscast putting themselves on the line to promote something they believe in. Sure all of us like to troll, but it's hard to resist when people work so hard to attack us, and anyone who gets to know us knows we're all cool dudes. KakerMix for sure is the biggest troll, but he gives back to the community more then anyone knows. Donates to every modder involved personally, and constantly directs traffic to everyone he can. He even donated money to me and I never asked for compensation for my art, he just felt that I deserved it.

    It's amazing how long the hate has lasted. The internet is well known for bandwagoning though, so I'm not surprised. Glad to see at least one person has gotten off at the corner and bought their own transportation.

    This is a bit long, but you should read what I have to say. I have a bit of an insiders opinion on the matter.
    Actually, the intention was never to share technic with the mainstream community at the start. That's why permission wasn't obtained. KakerMix assembled the pack personally after some kind of fever vision of an awesome way to play minecraft. It turned out to be amazing, and he just shared it with a few friends. I was one of those lucky test pilots so I know. From there people asked about it, and instead of explaining every little detail of a process that took days, he just shared the mods as a pack to those in his circles. From there it was leaked and spread like wildfire, so it was already too late to get permissions. Everyone was wild for technic. He did the best thing he could do and worked hard to set up a support system over time and make sure the people who had gotten it understood how to run it. As well as that, he contacted as many modders as he could and tried to get them to work together.

    Until recently, that was met with quite the negative response, as most well know. It somewhat explains our jaded attitude. A lot of people acted childishly instead of rationally, and instead of a community working together to make technic legit, we got a lot of modders hissing at KakerMix, and even each other. Throwing insults and refusing to listen to any reasonable discussion. They were all too afraid that their attention would be snatched away since they wanted it all for themselves and didn't want to share the spotlight with other modders. It was never about lost revenue. Most modders barely make anything off those awful links. Pennies usually. They get more from donations through technic users then they did with no question. It was all about every modder wanting to be the king of the community. Thankfully lately modders like Eloraam have been starting to come around, and we've been seeing a lot more growth in the community. A lot of mods have sprung up that bridge other mods together and create new and exciting gameplay. People are getting over the initial slight, and starting to accept that technic has been nothing but positive for everyone. (except flowerchild I guess? His own fault there.)

    I mean clearly theres still people who are just looking for a fight, or to carry that grudge torch on. People bring up copyright law without knowing anything about it themselves. The fun fact is, according to mojangs terms of service, every modder has violated them, even if it wasn't mojangs intention. In Sweden, anyone who even downloads a mod has violated them. And even further, anyone who would attempt to sue a mod pack assembler would only be able to sue civilly for damages, which you cant do on something distributed for free. The most they could get wouldn't be worth a courts time in any country, and certainly not the cost of a lawyer. It will be nice when this information gets around and people stop talking about it. Attaching all these made up copyrights to every single mod has no legal water and just holds back and restricts the potential of the community.

    In the end, everyone needs to just relax and enjoy some mods. To reference your comparison about music, if I were distributing my music for free, and someone took it and started handing it out for me, to thousands of people I couldn't reach, while giving me full credit and telling people to give me money?

    Hell, I hope someone DOES do that. I'm a musician as well as an artist, and I'd jump for joy if that happened.

    In fact it's kind of happened already, since I donate my art to the technic pack for use as logos, branding, and splash images. The Yogscast saw my work on the technic pack and hired me. They would never have known about me without it. Something to think about.

    It's called aggression... Deal with it.

    Oh wait, that requires guts... my bad..

    Ok man. I came here and regged because someone sent me a link and said some lunatic was raving and it was funny and to check it out. And while seeing your posts I was not mislead, I have to be serious for a moment. I wan't to voice my opinion if you'll pause for breath and allow me. Your behaviour and mindset is exactly the kind that damages the minecraft community and holds it back. You have a very destructive and pessimistic attitude. Sure, you can spend all the time you want raging about technic, but what does that do? Say KakerMix hears your cries of anger and says "oh, jeeze I guess I gotta stop putting technic together."

    Here is what happens.

    1. KakerMix and a great team of hard working modders (Whom are credited on the technic page for their hard work) and other folks who volunteer their time to put technic together stop making Technic. Great! You won! Now what did you win?

    2. The technic pack is no longer available. The vast majority of people who used it while playing minecraft are forced to stop. A few diehards will spend days every update patching and updating every single mod that used to be included, but they will do so without the help of a team of friendly and cool people who used to do that for them, and then assist them personally with any problems. The average player who doesn't have the time or patience to fiddle with compatibility issues, the people who just want to sit down and play minecraft, they'll pick a single mod and just play that.

    3. For thousands, the gameplay that can only be achieved by playing all the mods in technic together will be gone forever.

    4. Those who would like to use all those mods together, no longer have an area of the community to go to for help. They're on their own and good luck! I've seen the amount of work it takes to update technic, let alone the amount it took to build it in the first place. No one wants to do that. I'm amazed a bunch of people are, and that they put up with all the backlash they get for doing so.

    5. Many of the smaller mods included in technic will stop being used. Quite a few smaller mods have become much more popular because they are featured next to the bigger ones people recognize in technic and come with them. Many players try out new mods they never would have bothered with before, and are pleasantly surprised. With technic gone, lesser known modders or those just starting out wouldn't have any real form of exposure, and defiantly a lot less donation money. revenue is pennies, and not worth the drama. I personally don't touch any download that uses since it already triggered an anti virus warning once.

    6. As much as it's hard to hear, many players would not even touch mods if it weren't for the easy installer included with Technic. I used to be one of those people so I understand. Technic actually turned me around on that point and now I love mods. If technic were to go away tomorrow, I might not even bother using mods at all however. Certainly not all the mods included in the pack. I might not even bother with Minecraft at all, since the Vanilla gameplay in the final version has disappointed me. While not everyone will agree with me there, I'm sure I'm not alone in that point of view and to each their own. The point is, the modding community would undeniably lose a lot of traffic.

    7. Without the mods being used together, the modders who make them would go back to the way it was. No more floods of downloaders experiencing their mods who might not have before. No more floods of grateful donators, who have been directed to them by KakerMix, who refuses to profit at all, and in fact spends a lot of money to make technic happen. People competing for downloads, making pennies from annoying ad links, never co-operating with each other to make something better or greater. Technic, regardless of personal feeling, does fill that hole in the community. The modders make their mods, and the technic pack brings them together into something amazing and makes it accessible to everyone, regardless of personal skill or knowledge with computers or mod managing.

    8. Many mods that have been created completely to bridge these mods together or add in technic specific gameplay, would dry up. Many talented modders, like PowerCrystals who has made a number of amazing mods, see the gameplay technic creates as the ideal way to play modded minecraft, and contribute their time for free to make great new content. Those mods would no longer have a venue.

    So this is what you're aiming to do? Well great. You're an e-hero! Keep going on about swarms and conspiracies and people out to ruin minecraft. I haven't seen any ruining going on. I've seen a really cool way to play minecraft that I never would have gotten to see without Technic. I've seen the best thing to happen to a chaotic and fragmented community since minecraft blipped on the radar.