Posts by DrCeph

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Suggestion-Complaining: I think Oil and Refined Oil should worth more EU and give more EU/t. Why ? Because it's currently a bit UP compared to Lava ... I would suggest 30 000 EU/Oil Bucket and 200 000 EU / Refined Oil Bucket.

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To think of it, oil is rather rare (not counting deserts lol), you have to run QUITE some time to find it, than to transfer it to your base - it usually IS expensive (with tons of RC rails and such)

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electrical engine outputs 2MJ/t for 6EU/t so it uses a 3/1 eu/mj ratio (from 2.5/1 to 3.77/1 if you consider upgrades) while at the same time one bucket of forestry's biomass wich is worth 50000 MJ in forestry's biogass-engine is only worth a mere 8000 EU in forestry's biogenerator...so that's using a 0.16/1 conversion ratio...that's just wrong.

These three posts have made me think a little about the current default output values. Specifically, the following three points:

• Oil is non-renewable. The nerfing of Biofuel output makes sense considering dealing with a renewable (albeit with some maintenance required) resource.
• Oil is inconvenient. Unlike Biofuel, which you can produce exactly where you are.
• Lava is everywhere. GG, hell.

To this end, I'm considering taking @MatLaPatate's suggestion and buffing the default values to 30k EU/oil and 200k EU/fuel. I'd like to hear peoples thoughts and/or protests.

NOTE: This still has quite a different ratio from EU -> MJ compared to MJ -> EU (looking at forestry). I believe this is correct as the two systems scale differently, with BC scaling much more aggressively at high tiers compared to IC2 which is why I feel BC -> IC2 conversion should suffer diminishing returns at higher tiers.

DOUBLE NOTE: I'm also considering making an IC2 oil refinery as my next project, which would allow oil/fuel to be kept entirely in the IC2 processing space. If this happens, the oil value will likely reduce back down to 20k or 10k due to reduced cross-mod infrastructure needed.

Quote from MatLaPatate

Edit: You'd better not use EE

Lol, I knew mentioning EMC would be contentious Everybody can sleep easily tonight with the knowledge that I never use EE. Whilst I don't use it, it is the only mod I know of that has made a decent attempt at item valuation hence why I used it. Not perfect but the best we have.

Quote from M87

Personally im ok with the current reciepe, but if you have to change it, Prop#1 sounds good to me.

I've decided to go with Prop#1 + 2 water cells to make it a 3x3'er - basically the current recipe sans electronic circuit, which didn't sit 100% with me anyway.

More on recipes:

Looking at EMC values between all the generators out there, it seems pretty interesting:
https://docs.google.com/spread…t0UVlzOXFHRVlnTTJMN1A1YlE

I know using EMC values has its flaws, but it is the best valuation system I know of. My interpretation of my findings is that the value of the GeoGenerator is pretty low for how people use it. Conversely the BioGenerator value is through the roof at over 3.5 times more 'valuable'. Although this is due to a really high valuation of gold in EMC, which I'm not 100% convinced on.

The Petroleum generator is current about half the cost of the BioGenerator currently. Proposal #1 shaves off about 12% of the current value, and Proposal #2 about a third. Proposal #2 makes it pretty close to the Geothermal in costing.

I still like the look of Proposal #1 as it looks kind of 'IC2-y' and really gives a clear indication of what the machine does. Happy to hear any convincing arguments either way.

Quote from MatLaPatate

Edit: Couldn't you buff EU/t or make the Petroleum Generator cheaper ? Because a Combustion Engine already cost 11 Iron, add a Generator and a circuit, it's 20 ... that's quite expensive for something that output at max the same as Geogen (10 Iron, 20 EU/t). 35/40 EU/t would be nice.

The EU/t makes sense where it is, although I think the recipe might need to be made cheaper. The other issue is that the current recipe is a little complicated with each component being crafted components. My personal opinion is that the Geothermal generator is too cheap when paired with build craft lava farms and thermal expansion nether quarries (although balancing across mods is a totally futile effort!).

I'm thinking of dropping the circuit, and perhaps the water cells too, making it just a combustion engine and a generator (proposal #1). This is still around the 20 iron mark, but considering that carrying around a single stack of fuel (if you have forestry capsules, I want to make IC2 cells fuel/oil compatible) will give you 6.4m EU, that's not too bad.

Alternatively 1x combustion engine, 1x (or 2x) RE battery and 2x Water cell (proposal #2). This might actually be closer to the mark. I need to do a table of the raw materials and cross them with the raw materials of the geothermal and the BioGenerator, which are the PetroGen's closest relatives.

Quote from MatLaPatate

Suggestion-Complaining: I think Oil and Refined Oil should worth more EU and give more EU/t. Why ? Because it's currently a bit UP compared to Lava ... I would suggest 30 000 EU/Oil Bucket and 200 000 EU / Refined Oil Bucket.

Quote from Sleeeper

Config for ratios/output would be nice.

Fellow fossil fuel burning enthusiasts: As of latest version (0.7) options are now configurable, for those that want more (or less) bang for their liquidised ancient organic matter.

MatLaPatate: Changing the oil_multiplier to 3 and the fuel_multiplier to 10 will give you the numbers you are after

So what is the anti-mod bit of the update? Just the general underlying changes?

Quote from Ook

Me neither. I'm perfectly happy to have 3-4 power systems on a given map. Adds to the fun of the thing.

Totally agree, that's why I like conversion systems that aren't as effective as native ones. I like having the flexibility to crossover (handy when resources for one type of system are scarce) but it shouldn't always be the best choice. I've not played with Factorization's power either, but it looks pretty neat too with the mirror arrangement.

Quote from Snyke

Props for doing this . I realized the 2/5 conversion rate was broken a while ago, still thinking of solutions that will not break my EU->MJ->EU 95% conversion efficiency

Yeah it's a tough one when dealing with MJ directly, I've taken the sneaky path by working directly with the tiered fuel source One thing I was thinking of for a MJ -> EU system was a system of diminishing returns on the EU produced from greater MJ/t inputs.

I guess you would need to look at it as an overall measurement of all MJ into the TE else suddenly everyone will be running huge arrays of stirling engines into their transformer instead of a few combustion engines!

MatLaPatate

Pretty neat mate, I like the idea of getting (synthetic) rubber compounds from the refinery process. As for the conversion rate, I'm pretty happy with what is there, although I still need to give it a good playtest. Is your concern based on Lava being more readily available compared to fuel? At any rate I hope to soon make it configurable for people who would like to tweak the numbers.

I've also never really played much with Gregtech so I'd have to look at that more, is Hydrogen a component for that mod? Also interested to know how you are keeping it in a bucket

Quote from Thutmose

i agree with this, having a proper petroleum refinery would be great.

I have to say that a really good idea would be an IC refinery. Currently you would really need to run your refinery using a buildcraft engine to make using this generator efficient. I'll have to play around with numbers to see what it might look like.

Quote from Sliderpro

I say, best would be to make some big multiblock structure (towerlike) which will do processing on different temperatures. I can expand this idea, if you wish.

A multiblock structure for such a refinery would be quite cool and in line with some of the cool things being done by CJ in railcraft. Are there any other IC2 multiblock machines out there currently, other than the steam turbine in RC?

I've never understood the protective nature modders take with modding of their, uhh, modding.

I feel like it is a situation of dual-standing with modders happy to tweak/change gameplay dynamics but not wanting their own gameplay dynamics tweaked.

Not a criticism mind, purely a curious observation - although I guess that Minecraft expressly stating that their gameplay can be tweaked doesn't equal the modders taking the same stance.

For fear of highjacking my own thread, the steam functionality of Railcraft looks sick! Definitely can't wait to go play with steam turbines and the likes - having a basement full of boilers will look awesome.

I for one promote tolerance and education for Tekkit/Technic users. Probably because I started as one myself. Most people come across it as their entry-point into the modded-minecraft world and are naive to the way it operates. I thought it was all kittens and roses until I started going to Mod's homepages/forums and saw the real sentiment. I like the idea of modpacks still, and now use FTB.

My belief is that if people act like an arse to anybody who mentions the word tekkit/technic they'll get the impression that the community is unfriendly and in turn feel less sympathy for the treatment of the Mod author's rights by the tek crew.

tl;dr - make the perpetrator look like the douche, not the victim

Imagine a hill covered with a bunch of these! (right-hand background)

source: https://twitter.com/TheRealEloraam/status/270306603834683393

Quote from Sliderpro

Overall, good job. but there is a thing - Gregtech adds a recepie, which is 3 BC fuel cans > 3 IC cans each 100k eu. Yours is even 100k
being 1.5kk in real BC value, I see no technical use of his and your way to use fuel like this, with new release of Thermal expansion, which has unlaggy pipes + Transformers. maybe fuel should be 1-2kk EU with several generators.

I've only played around very loosely with TE, but I do have some thoughts on it. One philosophical issue I have against it is energy storage - I liked how the buildcraft system didn't really have an energy storage system (other than as 'potential' energy in the initial fuel state). The two together provided a different style of gameplay between the IC2 and Buildcraft style of stored vs potential energy. Having said that, TE has some damn cool machines - finally an ice machine for my cocktail bar!

Regarding Transformers, this mod will never be able to compete with the power of the mod, and this is on purpose. I see both having very valid uses in particular situations. I would lean towards this generator and the forestry machines in a challenge map where limited resources are a feature of the gameplay style. In a 'build-lots-of-cool-things' map, I would definitely recommend (and personally use) Snyke's Transformers mod instead.

I do like the idea of having a few tiers of generator, perhaps configurable in an options file. Also on the TODO list is to make the conversion ratio configurable, which might also help address these issues of balance. The fact of the matter is that each time a mod is added to the game it affects balance in some way. Allowing people to configure this mod to best match their personal balance setup could only be a win-win situation.

Quote from Karach

So, care to share what do you think about the whole onversion thing? Even now, I'm still very curious about whether or not what I just said makes any sense.

I've played around with biofuel a little less than with fuel, do you know, can you use peat-engines to run the still? That might be enough to make the conversion worthwhile, or using a bunch of solar panels and an electric engine. My general usage of fuel/biofuel is as a portable source of high-potential energy so I tend to produce and store it until I need it elsewhere (or as a temp boost of power to my main EU grid). If your still is powered by renewable energy than the only cost is time. Time is a price I'm willing to pay for a ~20% increase in power with double the throughput!

The conversion argument is easier with oil and fuel where the increase in power is so much more - once you have a refinery running on the fuel it produces you are producing much more fuel than you are using to create it.

Quote from MatLaPatate

Edit: With you addon you're proviging a balanced crossover between IC² and BC ... what about RC and IC² ? I'm talking about that, because I would like using RC, but it has currently to me not enough uses, and I would probably install it if there is a way to turn steam into EU without OP-Crossovers/Transformers mods ... So what about adding a Steam Generator ? That would produce per Coal the same amount or slightly less than what it produce with OP addons (we have to buff Coal ).

Totally hadn't even thought about it, I'd definitely love to give it a go - a steam generator would be awesome!

Quote from JamaicanSoup

im going to use this just because the block texture is sexy!

Hey guys,

I've recently published my BC crossover mod and wanted to ask your guys thoughts on recipe balance for the generator in the mod, and perhaps your thoughts on recipe balance in general, hence the discussion thread here.

The generator uses BC oil and fuel as an energy source, producing 10k and 100k EU respectively (link in my profile). The current recipe is:

1 x Electric Circuit
1 x Generator
1 x Combustion Engine (12 iron,12 cobble, 5 planks, 1 redstone, 1 glass for non BC'ers)
2 x Water Cell

After having a closer look at the IC wiki, I noticed that solar is pretty much the only non-nuclear generator with circuitry. This makes me wonder if my recipe is too expensive? Keep in mind that although fuel produces more energy than a geo-generator, that there is much more infrastructure involved.

I was wondering what people would think of this as an alternative recipe (swapping out the circuit)?

1 x Tank (8 Glass for non BC'ers)
1 x Generator
1 x Combustion Engine
2 x Water Cell

The reason I chose the above is I would see them both as roughly representing the 'real' components of a fuel generator.

Now to through it out more generally, how do you guys as Addon Developers decide on your recipes? Are there rules of thumb you apply to keep your item balanced and not OP?

For your power generation, maybe your generator could be a little bit more 'organic'.

Something like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_battery

Thanks mate, please let me know how you get on.

Something I haven't explicitly stated in the OP is that this is a beta release. It is relatively simple and should be quite stable but any reports of issues are welcome and encouraged.

A buildcraft <> IC2 crossover mod. Tasty on its own; Delicious served with a main course of Forestry.

This mod adds a Petroleum Generator to the game. This generator will produce EU directly from Buildcraft Fuel/Oil, which can be either pumped in as a buildcraft liquid pipes, or manually deposited using containers. Want to burn some Biofuel in this? Tough. DrCeph Industries doesn't believe in the green revolution. It is just a fad that will pass, like hypercolor and scrunchies.

Also recently added was an IC2-based processing chain to turn raw materials from TrainCraft (Oily Sands and Crude Oil ore) into Buildcraft oil. This chain is only enabled if TrainCraft is installed.

DOWNLOAD NOW (v1.2.1 for IC2 v1.112, MC 1.4.6; Dropbox link)
older versions can be found here

1.2.1 update brings the following additions:

• Access the controls!
  Since a class-action suit against DrCeph industries by engineers with malformed hands, Petroleum Generator has been improved such that a newly placed generator will now have the faceplate facing towards the player that placed the block. No longer will your activity light be obscured by the wall of your secret lair.
• Burn all the things!
  If using alongside TrainCraft, Petroleum Generator will enable an IC2-based processing chain to turn those fields of Oil Sands and Crude Oil ore pockets into sweet* Liquid Oil. Check the main post for details on the processing chain.

Why another BC/IC conversion mod?

Crafting Recipe

Traincraft oily sands and ore processing chain

Screenshots

TODO, Installation and Licence

Change Log

In the interest of full disclosure, here are other places this mod has a presence:
Github (Source code) http://github.com/chrisduran/petroleumgenerator
FTB (Modpack) http://forum.feed-the-beast.co…bc-ic-crossover-mod.2246/

I wanted to give you guys a quick show of appreciation - I know the reasonable types are often the silent majority on sites like this, but you're exemplary when it comes to latest version releases and all the rest. This is even more amazing when you consider that the mod is an unpaid labour.

Quote from sliderpro

BC is really heavy in development, check github.
However, I wish someone could remake petrogen T_T
I still have high hopes for plugin 4 forestry mod, as author promised to add tons of liquid recepies to biopower gen

A petroleum generator in the spirit of the forestry bio generator is a mod I am currently working on, with similar power ratios - producing 1.5 million EU from a fuel bucket seems excessive to me. The current flurry of development and updates to 1.4.4 are slowing things down, but I'm hoping to have something in the next week or two for people to play with - I've already got a 'magic' generator that produces free EU (woot!). I just need to integrate the LiquidStack code (which is now in Forge itself) and start pumping in some hydrocarbon goodness!

C.

EDIT: Now found here:
[Addon 1.109] Petroleum Generator 0.5 - burn baby burn.. for EU! [beta]