The missing EU's are possibly stored in the other storage units. They have to reach their output level before they send power. So if you where using MFSU's then up to 512 EU would be "lost" in each and every one of them (simply sitting there on hold)
As for cable length. If two machines are equally close and the incoming EU is an odd number then one of the two machines will get the extra EU based on which order they are checked. (F.E Up/down/north/west/south/east)
Display MoreI would be highly interested in seeing the result of this.
However I do have one additional suggestion. Select (most of) the chunk and duplicate it across (rotating it) in to the other chunk. This way trees and mineral resources are asurred to be even.
Also post the seed of the starting area.
I can produce an official map as described above after work tonight if you're interested. This way an impartial third party will have done the work. I'm also debating offering up a semi-laggy server to host it on.
If you could do that (make the map) that would be awesome, adds a third party to the competiton. You can even be the judge 
And hosting it anywhere is fine by me. I have a Core2 Q6600 with 4 gigs of ram and an SSD drive to run the server on and 100 MBit internet located on the west coast in Sweden.
Performance isn't vitally important though but if we could have EQUAL performace that would make things more... equal?
LEgit idea, will be added.
The original idea or someone elses? Like i pointed out, allowing blocks to be macerated breaks the UUM-recipe kinda...?
it would make the luminator use 1eu every 6.4 seconds
Yes, but the ticker is also used to update the luminator? I could check the source though since i still have it open...
Yep, that would make it not run the code as often. Though making it like this would solve all problems:
TileEntityLuminator.java:58
ticker++;
if(ticker % 128 == 0) // Changed to one EU every 128 ticks or 0.0078125 EU tick. Only use this if you want less consumption ofc.
{
energy--;
}
if (ticker % 4 == 0)
{
if(energy < 0) // Changed to < 0 instead of <= 0, this should prevent flickering.
{
worldObj.setBlockAndMetadataWithNotify(xCoord, yCoord, zCoord, mod_IC2.blockLuminatorDark.blockID, worldObj.getBlockMetadata(xCoord, yCoord, zCoord));
}
}TileEntityLuminator.java:104
if (energy <= 1) // Added a check to make sure the luminator only takes energy when it needs it from cables (batteries still will feed them)
{
energy++; // Changed to ++ instead of += i, this makes the luminator only take one EU. When fed from cables it should only have a max of 2 EU stored so it will shut off faster.
i--; // Remove one EU from the incoming energy
}
return i; // Return the remaining EU's of the incoming energy. (Not sure about this, not entirely sure this is how it works, maybe it's the other way around?)So i changed quite a few lines in the last code section... Now, luminators will be fed by batteries just the same (and they will stay on for as long without the 128 tick change and 32 times as long WITH the 128 tick change.
When fed by cables they should turn on immediately, and turn off in 8 ticks max (0.4 seconds) when the cable stops sending power to it. The cable thus has to send energy at least once every 8 ticks or the luminator shuts off.
Also fixed flickering.
Though I haven't tested the code!
*SNIP*
Dude, don't repost... Your whole point is invalid for starters and re-posting is the same as spamming.
Plus, i have already agreed with you on Solar being more expensive in all resources except iron and glass blocks. That is beside the point though. The TIME it takes to make a wind farm is out of proportion in comparison to a solar plant.
That time could be spent finding several diamonds instead.
EDIT:
Ok, here is what we can do. We can have a little competition. I set up a server with just IC2 installed.
We agree on a time when we can do the competition.
The goals:
* First to produce an effective average EU production of 128 wins, I will be using solars and you will be using wind.
The rules:
* The map is divided into 2, you (rick) are allowed to use all map co-ordinates that are above 0 on the X and Z axis, the Y axis is obviously free for both of us. I will be using all map co-ordinates below 0, negatives.
* If one of us have to take a break then the server is shut down. A simple message like "I need a break for X hours" means we BOTH drop our tools and i immediately close the server.
* No other mods are allowed but IC2... (NO OTHER MODS, that's FINAL)
* No cheating, no map editors, no external map readers etc etc. (And if you cheat Rick, the shame is on you for failing to stay fair, I know i am right about this I don't have to cheat to win the special olympics, I would do this to help YOU understand that YOU are not correct)
* No obstructing the other persons work... That is, no passing into the other persons zone. No pushing a flock of cheep into the other persons zone or likewise.
* You are allowed to use whatever other machines you want. Anything you can make in MC and IC2 is allowed
The map setup:
* Each person starts with a SINGLE diamond pickaxe, a SINGLE diamond axe and a SINGLE diamond shovel.
* Each person also starts with 10 personal safes (or 20 chests if personal safe isn't available), a Generator, a macerator, a stack of logs and 4 stacks of glowstone. Nothing more, the rest has to be manually harvested and crafted. (The reason for the starting resources is to even out the extreme starting point "grind" and the fact that starting out can fluctuate wildly in time taken to get set up intially. Glowstone is added because going to the nether is very much beside the point of this test.
* The map has a trench dug from sky to bedrock that is 16 blocks wide to prevent any accidental digging across borders.
So, what do you say Rick? Are you ready to take on the challenge? Shall i set it up?
EDIT: Obviously i would record my whole session using fraps. So you can see exactly what i did and if i cheated in any way.
Learned something new thanks to BrickedKeyboards reading the source as well. I had missed the vital part about when a wind gen breaks due to overproduction it is replaced with a standard generator, not an empty air block. The 1-4 iron ingots are the wind gen blades flying off, thus making it a regular generator.
Err, i have already made a detailed post on how they work.
http://forum.industrial-craft.…ad&postID=26800#post26800
They start with 10 to 19, not 10 to 20. Right there is the first mistake. I get the feeling most of your details are off because of that. But i shall read the rest.
Display MoreAccording to my read-through of the source code, a wind generator produces height*windstrength/750 every tick. Windstrength initially starts with a value between
10 and 2010 and 19 average of 15.
So, initially, a wind generator will on average make 2.56 EU/tick, with a bonus of up to 1.5.
There is another function called "update wind" that initially has a
1/1011% chance of increasing wind by 1 and a1/1011% chance of decreasing wind by 1.
Here's the interesting part : if wind goes over 20 or under 10, the variable that allows it to increase or decrease becomes smaller, making a future increase or decrease less likely. In the long, long run those variables will go to zero and wind will no longer change. Hmm this could be a serious bug.
These variables are set to 10 before the calculations are made. Every time wind updates (128 ticks, 6.4 seconds) the chances are reset. Wind will go as high as 31 and as low as -1. Read my post for details.
Anyways, median wind production is 2.56 EU/tick (That is possibly correct, because even if both chances for wind increase/decrease is 11%. If wind increases then wind cannot decrease. Thus giving wind a sligtly bigger chance of increasing), day and night, with bonuses for rain and thunder. I tried to compute what those bonuses are, but Notch's code for randomizing weather is somewhat complex. Assuming it is raining or thundering 10% of the time, with equal probability for either (it seems to be from the code), that means that these weather bonuses make the median wind income roughly 2.65.
Solar, by comparison, only works when it is daytime, which is exactly 1/2 of the time. Assuming bad weather occupies 10% of the time, that means that solar produces a per panel income of 0.45 EU/tick.
I'd like to calculate more precisely how much bad weather works out to be, but as I said, Notch's code is headache inducing.
One more thing : there is a chance that wind can get over 20, and
so during a thunderstorm onlyanytime the production exceeds 5, which can happen even without a thunderstorm there is a1subproduction value - 4 in 5000 chance, the dice rolled every 128 ticks that the blades will fly off and be dropped as 0-5 iron ingots and the wind generator is replaced with agenerator. 1-4 iron ingots
EDIT: You are correct about the wind gen being replaced with a generator... I had just missed that little part. Thought is was replaced by air.
I wonder why buildcraft and industrialcraft are not the same mod
I mean those mods are so uber together, but since only thing i hate is filling lava cells by hand, oh i wish someone made bucket(empty cell) filler for 3.0.1+
Love your mod list except for EE, that is just awful.
As for cell filler, use a miner and a pump (IC2 machines that is) and you have an automated cell filler.
You can also hold a stack of cells and right click at liquids to fill those cells. I have a macro that spams my right mouse button once every millisecond. I empty lava polls in no time using cells.
Better if you separate items for craft and for use. Crystals for craft items and batpacks for use and transfer energy. In this case no need charge state in crystals and code be simple. It will be very useful.
But you see, crystals are expensive items, making the function they provide even more expensive doesn't make much sense at all. Rename and redraw crystals to batteries if that is the case. Still doesn't change a single thing.
Crystals are used for energy storage AND as a crafting ingredient.
And while you're in there can you change "tick % 4" to something more along the lines of "tick % 128"? That'd be boss.
Wouldn't that make the luminator take up to 6.4 seconds to react to input?
And at level 127, the output should be 7.75 max/2.5 average, if my math is correct?
I'm not sure that it's worth it to move them down to a "safe" level, considering they'd only be running at 64% of their previous efficiency. That's no different than losing 5 out of my 16 mills outright - or building 9 more to keep up the same power generation.
I think I'll keep them where they are and replace them if/as needed. It's honestly more economical that way.
Your math is correct. I foresee wind mills changing in the future to make a break more likely. With some kind of safety feature to stop your wind generators (apply the brakes that is) if wind speed reaches a dangerous level. All through a wind measuring device that is configurable and emits redstone signal ofc.
EDIT: Additionally, placing them below a certain height leaves them in no danger of breaking unless a hurricane passes by. And placing them at 127 makes them several times more effective with increased risks of sudden wind gusts and severe wind on average forcing you to shut down or "weather the storm" pun pun punnilly pun.
I'm highly in favor of having torches either give off far less light or to have them burn out so that they luminators get some more love.
I checked out Quorg's Torch burn out mod which is very well designed, but the SMP version is for 1.0.0 only. 1.8.1 SSP only.
Eh? All i find from him is 1.0.0 versions. Both SSP and SMP.
Display MoreI was seeking the height to place a windmill at /after/ obstruction calculations (IE as if producing power and shipping it nowhere were the goal)
So Height = 82 - 2 obstruction down to out of range wire == safe; everything I said was correct, you simply misinterpreted it.
Yes, yes i did... Simply didn't pay attention to the "<"
You mean I gotta move everything down 45 meters? Aw, frak. So how much less power do they produce at that level, since you've already got the math in front of you?
If the generator is placed at level 82 then:
((31 * (82 - 2) / 750) * 1.5) = 4.96 EU/t max.
((15 * (82 - 2) / 750) = 1.6 EU/t average.
EDIT: And average will be slightly higher because if wind is increasing then wind cannot decrease at the same time. that 11% chance of wind increasing thing. Say wind str is at 16, then there is a 11% chance that wind will NOT decrease (and instead increase). After that there is another 11% chance that wind will decrease.
Like i said in my detailed post, i can't do the math to determine what the actual effective percentages are for wind decreasing. Still, if wind was on average 16 then you get 1.70666 EU/t.
EDIT #2:
On a side note, be aware that you have to be REALLY REALLY "unlucky" to even get to the theoretical max level...
Starting at wind str 20.
11% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 21.
10% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 22.
9% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 23.
8% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 24.
7% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 25.
6% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 26.
5% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 27.
4% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 28.
3% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 29.
2% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 30.
1% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 31.
Now, all you need is a thunder storm at this exact moment in time. Because...
Wind strength is now at 31, 0% chance of wind increase. Wind decreases to 30.
1% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 31.
Wind strength is now at 31, 0% chance of wind increase. Wind decreases to 30.
1% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 31.
Wind strength is now at 31, 0% chance of wind increase. Wind decreases to 30.
1% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 31.
Wind strength is now at 31, 0% chance of wind increase. Wind decreases to 30.
1% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 31.
Wind strength is now at 31, 0% chance of wind increase. Wind decreases to 30.
1% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 31.
Wind strength is now at 31, 0% chance of wind increase. Wind decreases to 30.
1% chance of wind increase. You get lucky and wind increases to 31.
...
...
...
So say you manage to stay around that max and hit just right with that 1% chance several times in a row. And a thunderstorm is going... You now have an additional (max) chance of 0.075% to lose a wind mill...
I'd say the chances of that happening is so slim that if it happens to you then you really should buy yourself a lottery ticket because you will win the jackpot... TWICE!
Kind of a small suggestion, but it nice if we could macerate Glowstone Blocks into 4 Glowstone each, it would allow us to store large amounts of Glowstone Dust (In it's block form), and not risk losing any when breaking the blocks to get the dust back.
Edit: You can make Glowstone from UU-Matter, but not dust, and you can lose up to 3 dust from each block if you break it.
Kinda like the idea but i think the reason you get a glowstone block and not 4 glowstone dust in the UUM recipe is because it adds a random "lottery" element to the whole thing. Adding a macerator recipe for glowstone blocks would break this lottery.
Instead, introduce a recipe (9 dusts) to make a glowstone ball, which can be reversed OFC.
This glowstone ball could then be compressed into a glowstone plate (or likewise) and replace one of the glass blocks in the luminator recipe to create 64 luminators at once instead of the default 8... Win win?
You're both forgetting that it's possible to build windmills at levels other than 127 (it's just not quite as effective). It's also rare for me to keep non-nuke power generators within a single chunk.
Quote...
Oh wait, i feel another irrelevant statement coming up...
-"Just build your wind generators at sea level! They still outperform solar panels!"
Yes, technically they do outperform solar panels at sea level... Here comes the list of things that makes them less desirable than solar panels on the ground...
- They take up space, two times as much to match the output of solar panels using twice as many wind gens, space is important. The more space you consume on ground level the further you have to walk between your buildings etc.
- They STILL are unreliable power sources. They can generate 0 EU/t or they can generate 2.5 EU tick at sea level. (And they can get stuck on 0 EU/t for a long time since they only change their production once every 6.4 seconds)
- You want a relatively flat area (that covers not just 40x45 but 55x60 since you now need that area to set up 104 wind gens at sea level) and making a 55x60 tile large flat area where, say, half the blocks need to be cleared in the area. (That's 1650 blocks to clear, possibly more)
- Did i mention chunks? I think i did!
Maybe you should have read my post before you make accusations that are utterly false?
They are horribly underpowered.
Not at all, they are still OP as they have always been. And you simply ignore the relevant parts and substitute your own reality. Maybe you should actually build a wind farm that large and then build a solar farm that matches output. You tell me which one was easier and faster to build.
Lets start thinking about how to fix them ok?
Yes, lets talk about how to fix them...
For starters, make them as complicated to build as the other free energy alternatives. Or make them require some kind of maintenance like the other fossil generators.
Then, once more, increase the EU/t and total EU gain of the fossil fuel generators. And make reactors especially powerful. (And add some extra complexity while we are at it)
Rework the energy tiers, LV now is 128 EU/t, MV now is 512 EU/t, HV now is 2048 EU/t, EV now is 16535! (Are we now passing some internal limitation? I know Shorts only allow 16535. If that is the case then only increase it to 4096.)
Introduce a new energy tier at and call that "Appliance Voltage" (AV) at 32 EU/t.
Introduce another new energy tier and call that "Tiny Voltage" (TV) at 8 EU/t.
Now, since nearly all generators now produce HUGE amounts of energy, make machines draw more energy as well. And further more, don't allow heavy machinery to run off too low voltages.
Actually, introduce new machines... To name a few:
Additionally...
As for energy consumption:
All machines should draw roughly 1/10th to 1/5th of their rated power supply. So for instance, a mixer will draw 2 EU/t. A microwave oven will draw 4 EU/t. A canning machine will draw 1 EU/t.
An electro furnace would draw 24 EU/t and a rock tumbler would draw 16 EU/t.
Now, for the part of solar panels in all this. The idea here is, if you want to run your Electro furnace and your rock tumbler (40 EU/t) using solar power directly from solar panels (no in between storage) you would need to have at least 8 panels. Solar panels are Tiny Voltage generators, you have to transform that voltage up to LV using a TV->LV transformer. (which allows for conversion the other way as well OFC)
But unlike now, conversion is not free. Here is an example conversion table:
TV = 8 EU
AV = 32 EU
LV = 128 EU
MV = 512 EU
HV = 2048 EU
EV = 4096 EU (Or 16535 if possible, double the losses if that is the case)
Numbers denote the energy loss (EU's) in the conversion.
Dashes means the conversion doesn't make sense or is unavailable using that transformer.
*These number are not thought through entirely, just preliminary*
From/To
TV AV LV MV HV EV
TV - 1 2 - - -
AV 2 - 4 - - -
LV 8 4 - 8 - -
MV - - 16 - 12 -
HV - - - 32 - 24
EV - - - 128 96 -Also note that the conversion loss isn't just wasted EU's. 10% of the numbers above is energy lost to heat. (That is for example, 10% of EV->MV conversion is lost to heat, 12.8 EU)
That 10% value is rounded UP to the nearest integer (Thus making TV->AV conversion ALWAYS waste 1 EU and EV->MV conversion waste 13 EU)
So what are the numbers good for then? They show how much of the power can't make it through the transformer. So in the case of MV to LV transformation, 16 eu is blocked, 2 EU is lost of those 16, the remaining 14 just doesn't make it through and as such is never spent at the source generator/storage. 512 - 16 is 496 EU that makes it through. (This is part of the balancing)
Thus, going by those numbers. A solar panel should create 7 EU to allow for the conversion cost and the required power. However, solar panels produce 8 EU/t to allow for some distance losses...
Which brings us to the next change. Change distance related losses to these values:
TV cables are made out of 2xTin
AV cables are made out of 2xCopper
LV cables are made out of 3xCopper
MV cables are made out of 2xCopper+1xGold
HV cables are made out of 2xGold+1xRefined Iron
EV cables are made out of 5xRefined Iron and 4xCopper
The "x0", "x1" etc is the amount of insulation added.
TVx0 = 0.075 EU/b (Very low resistance cables on TV, works due to the low current flowing through them)
TVx1 = 0.0625 EU/b
AVx0 = 0.15 EU/b
AVxRW = 0.125 EU/b (This is the new Resin+Wool cable)
AVx1 = 0.1
LVx0 = 0.3
LVx1 = 0.25
LVx2 = 0.2
LVx3 = 0.15
MVx0 = 0.25 (The higher voltage and better conductivity of gold allows this to be more effective than LV cables. The real cost is in the transformer.)
MVx1 = 0.225
MVx2 = 0.2
MVx3 = 0.18
MVx4 = 0.16
HVx0 = 0.2 (The higher voltage and better conductivity of gold allows this to be more effective than MV cables. The real cost is in the transformer.)
HVx1 = 0.18
HVx2 = 0.165
HVx3 = 0.160
HVx4 = 0.157
EVx0 = 0.2 (Double this figure if 16535 is possible)Well, enough ideas for this. Where i am getting with this for solar panels is that making solar power parks "would" be possible to power your macerators, industrial compressors etc. You are FORCED to lose some EU's in the conversion process by doing so.
Solar panels work best (read, most efficient) for smaller applications such as home appliances (AV and LV) and street lighting etc. But beyond that you have to go "industrial" to make solar panels power your factories.
Next time you call me dumb check your own dumb posts pls
Never called you dumb, you are placing words into my mouth. (Though i didn't call you a genius either)
And my posts aren't dumb. You are just saying that because you lack the ability to look up facts and instead use your poor understanding of things to claim something to be true when it is in fact false.
Learn to understand simple balancing mechanics. And stick to the practical world, not your "lalalala" world.
Hmm didnt knew about windgens having a minor chance to break.
What about just making them more compact? Use the windgens and cables themselves as obstructions?
Read the last 5 posts of the thread before yours and you should see that this is what we are discussing now...
That is, all posts on this page except yours...
But if you do that, output will suffer significantly, won't it? Or has that changed as well?
Adding obstruction blocks has the same effect as placing the wind mill one height level further down. So a wind mill at height 127 with 64 obstructions will be as effective as a wind mill at height 63 with zero obstructions.
As MJEvans pointed out, to make a safe one you place it at height level 80.64. But i think his derived math is off because ((31 * (82 - 2) / 750) * 1.5) = 4.96 and ((31 * (83 - 2) / 750) * 1.5) = 5.022.
I bet he forgot obscuredblockcount ALWAYS includes the 2 cables coming from below.
Still, a 0.0075% chance is a VERY SMALL chance.
RX-A 8W 1740
RX-A 7C 2050
sounds like a good designations to me.
Thing is, people would need to start learning a lot of letter combos with your suggested system.
1740 8B
1820 6I
That is smaller and easier... EU/t and "B" for bucket or "I" for ice followed by a number denoting the number of replacements per reactor cycle needed.
The reason i stepped down my 2050 to 1820 is because i forgot to remove a chamber... I thought 2050 was a bit high! Subsequently that reactor only needs 6 ice stacks instead of 7.
Display MoreHey everyone ... I've updated CLC. It includes now:
Percentage!
Overall Colors! With Parabola modifier so that you can see a difference even at lower numbers!
Thanks for the requests and feedback!
Edit:
Wow the lowering of the Glass Fibre Cable is impressive. 5%(@512EU-P) Loss over 1000 Blocks compared to 39%(@2048EU-P) With HV Cable!But expensive he ...
Some questions:
What's the max output of the nuclear reactor? It would be handy to know to update the wiki.
You asked for one, i will give you three...
The max output of the reactor using ONLY uranium cells is 2,400 EU/t with a max generation time of 6 seconds.
With a water CASUC you can get 1740 EU/t and run it forever as long as you supply (and remove) 8 buckets per second.
With an ice CASUC you can get 1820 EU/t and run it forever as long as you supply 6 ice blocks per second.
EDIT: Err, i forgot to remove a chamber on the ice CASUC, it's 1820... Not 2050! And 6 ice blocks per sec.
