I must be missing something because to me it would make no sense for an electric furnace to be less efficient than a stone furnace. It would be like an industrial grinder (oh the poor long lost grinder!) only giving you two dusts and no bonus dusts, but then costing much more and being harder to power.
There is where AE2 comes into the play, production on demand.
Although We usually request the AE to craft a stack of it or keep a constant supply of something.
Overproduction is just the old way of economy we used to have but has the problem of wasting resources which is definitely not a real problem on minecraft.
Right, production on demand. My point was, is gt5 designed assuming everyone will have access to production on demand options? Because hand crafting each item every time is a pain in the ass.
Then you shouldn't autoproduce Screws en mass (maybe instead just do a Stack or so), because those are slightly lossy when recycled (1 Unit => 8 Bolts, 1 Bolt => 1 Screw, but 9 Screws => 1 Unit).
You and paladinOne said that I should maek little assembly line/factories to produce screws, now i should just shift click a couple stacks at once?
That brings me back to where I started though, I just find myself spending all my free time in a day crafting. As i said, i guess this mod just isnt for me anymore, I have kids and a wife, so i might only get an hour a day to play minecraft.
Either way, the 'make a little factory' to me implied that the screws and such were designed to promote players doing fun things that required problem solving. Instead now it seems I just shift click in a crafting table, or set up AE crafting on demand.
IMO minecraft is fun when you have to do something and you think 'ok just HOW am I going to get this done??' or when something doesn't work and you say 'ok what the hell happened here and how do i fix this'? I guess to me, crafting screws and stuff doesn't make me say that. If I had to make some sort of assembly line that created engineering problems to make them, then it would... so i was hopeful that I was missing out on something, but it still appears people jsut shift click a few stacks, or use AE to auto craft.
Yeah that's generally the easier way to do it. If it's a machine, make what you need. If it's a random stray part, make a hundred of them because you're going to need more and it's a lot less annoying.
Funny how that's how real life large-scale manufacturing often works...
Actually that isn't how real life manuacturing works. Now they use 'Lean Manufacturing', and the goal is to NOT overproduce and have too much 'WIP' (Work In Process). Not that it matters. In the real world, overproduction is Death. It means you have $$$ tied up into product that is sitting on your production floor, vs being money in the bank that you can use for other things. This translates to minecraft... what if I dont have enough ingots to just make a stack of screws? Or a stack of lv motors? The 'poorer' I am, the more I feel i should make only a few screws, then come back later when I am sure I *need* more, and then have to CRAFT more . Setting up automated 'factories' for making screws is pointless becasue the regular crafting table is instant. In my experience, you only set up auto crafting for things you will need to make thousands of, because you can shift click into and out of a crafting table and make hundreds of items in a few minutes. So if i need ... 100 screws? 500? over the course of a GT world, I can craft them EASIER in a normal crafting table than I can in an autocrafter, depending on which one I am using. AE1's mac was only really helpful with things like Compact Solars, things like that.
But I dont see people needing to make... 1000 assembly machines. In 1.3 I made 5 hv solars without using a MAC from AE or any sort of 'factory'. Thats 2500 'machines' I had to craft, and I used redpowers production table or whatever it was. I set up a mac to make 100 hv solars, which is 51,200 'machines'. See my point? Even a MAC was very easy to set up, easy to make patterns, and even then people often feel making patterns is not worth the effort for many things. You need to require HUGE quantities to get people making factories.
IMO factories wont really exist until the only crafting table available is the buildcraft auto crafting table that is slow to craft even a single thing. hmmm. That gives me an idea.
I get the point of making a stack at a time. I have done it since I started playing modded MC. But setting up a 'factory' to produce lv motors would take, IMO, a lot longer than say... putting a pattern into an AE1 mac. And EVEN with how easy it was to set up an AE pattern, people STILL often just crafted by hand, because crafting was instant.
Not sure where I was going with this. Do people on kiara set up huge auto crafting factories to make supplies like circuits and stuff? I looked earlier today at the screenshots of bases... I dont see huge factories.
AE2 has autocrafting, but only since 1.7.10, not in 1.7.2.
Since the update of kirara to 1.7.10 took some time, most bases were build without autocrafting. And even now not all use it, since AE2 uses 3x the energy on Kirara.
Ahh. Well then I guess it's just that I do not have the time for a mod like this anymore.
I've always played with GT but I don't really like GT5. Like people above said:
1) Ugly textures
2) Missing Tech (and advanced Tech is what I play it for)
3) Much longer loading times
4) Crappy tool system - it looks cool on paper but with harderstone=true most tools are WORSE than vanilla.
5) Gazillion crafting recipes for tools, drills, machines. Why are there tool materials you would NEVER use? Instead you have hundreds of NEI pages.
6) Cables everywhere, in every recipe. Insane powerloss.
7) Missing power generation. Charcoal, steam, diesel.
I like 1.7.10 more with control sprinting, Dark Forests, new mods and easy minetweaking, but all that is not worth it with crappy GT5. Instead I minetweaked 150 mods to use GT recipes in 1.6.4 and I'm happy that way.
I just wish someone ported GT4 to 1.7.10.
Id also love it if someone would (could?) port GT4 to 1.7. As Greg points out in his QA, if the mod appears to be too involved, then it's not for you. So i realized... it's not for me anymore.
If GT4 could be made to run on 1.7, I would still be using GT.
Side question: it appears most fans of GT use AE? Does AE2 still have autocrafting? Im wondering if this is why GT5 bugs me, I haven't used AE since 1.4, I like the high energy usage and high cost of GT machines, not crafting screws and 10 different wires.
I wonder if the hard mode crowd like the kiara server people don't feel the pain of the crafting due to using AE? But for people like me, it just seems overwhelming. Or does AE not have auto crafting anymore?
Electric one ideally would not be better. You lose energy on the convertion to electricity (a very good bunch btw) aswell on the conversion of electricity back to heat.
This seems to be the theme of GT these days, and it's why Im working with just IC2. To me, how things work in the real world often don't equate to gameplay balance. So for this pack, think of forestry multifarms costing 5x as much metal, and apatite lasting even less time than on Hard Mode. Energy is scarce, which promotes being as efficient as possible, that's the point of making technology (at least in the pack). Then have electric furnaces smelt one or maybe 2 dusts per charcoal, not 8 dusts. No one will make an electric furnace in this environment, they will make vanilla furnaces. Possibly the electric furnace would be used once solar panels come online I guess.
The other problem is that ic2 machines will be much more expensive, so a furnace made out of only stone would also be crazily cheap.
@blockmaster, i would think people would just make 4 stone furnaces to compensate for 1 electric furnace. Now they smelt a stack of items as fast as the electric one, save themselves dozens of ingots and get a much more efficient furnace. Making an iron furnace harder to get would be better, but then you have the electric furnace as the 'bronze age' type furnace and the plain iron furnace as the top tier furnace. Doesn't really fit, IMO.
And if I just make regular vanilla furnaces harder to make, how do people smelt items at the beginning of the game?
No it should smelt more than 8 dusts per charcoal. A vanilla furnace is 8 per charocoal, i would *hope* an electric furnace would do more. An iron furnace is more efficient than a stone furnace, so an electric ideally should be even better.
My point was that if i change the ic2 config so that each energy generator block outputs say....20% of what they do now, it will mean that coal in a generator burns 5x as fast.
But in a vanilla furnace, it will still be the same... no one would use an electric furnace, especially in a pack where energy is harder to get than most packs.
Thanks for the tip. I think ill be removing the machine casing recipe, to make it more expensive.
I am working on a modpack to make the regular ic2 more hard mode style, but I am not using GT.
The ic2 config file gives great optioins on balancing the mod. You can decrease the output of all power generating blocks but... this makes the vanilla furnace pretty OP. Why would anyone burn 1 charcoal to smelt 4 dusts in an electric furnace, when a vanilla furnace will smelt 8 dusts for the same piece of charcoal?
My idea was to remove the vanilla furnace recipe and iron furnace recipe, but this makes smelting in the early game impossible. I can't find any config option for the iron furnace, does anyone know if there is a way to configure it? Or if there is a way to get around this?
Side note: has anyone else noticed in the IC2.ini file (config) that you can add custom recipes? Not as robuts as minetweaker, but still, pretty handy if you only wanted to add a few recipes.
If anyone has any suggestions on how to make ic2 more 'hard mode' I would love to hear them.
Greg, PLEASE change the color of rubber to at least very dark gray. How can I build with rubber when it looks like the void is taking over!?
That is a wall of rubber plates.
I have the same issue with granite. Even with the brightness turned all the way up, when I find it while mining I can't tell if it's a hole or granite unless I put a torch right next to it. With the brightness turned down somewhat, it just looks like a black spot to me.Quote
Problem is, we see dark things and assume they are black things. When, in reality, it’s very hard to find something that is pure black. Roads aren’t black. Your office chair isn’t black. The sidebar in Sparrow isn’t black. Words on web pages aren’t black.
All I use are furnaces and they are fast
Of course they are. Lemming couldn't let other mods do anything better, could he? Ive seen people say 'I still use IC2 for the speed' easily 100 times or more. For people just strictly comparing ic2 vs TE in a pack, they would say TE was more user friendly (read: easy to use) but ic2 still offered faster machines.
I don't hate exploration as we all probably know how much of it is needed for ores in the current GT (atleast the cassiterite spawns now in 40-120 levels) but we are all both not the same person so i don't really like dungeos and exploration of them but you like, once i tried to find a beoyond reality modpack series i found one and guess what: he disabled GT and only played the magic mods (this is the reason why we can't be amused) i The CELL_ need's sleep.
yeah i was just voicing my own opinion on it. not saying your ideas were wrong.
in 1.6 i played on the beyond reality server for the last few months it was online, and I found TONS and tons of bases all with thaumcraft stuff all over the place. The server had been online for 9 months so they had had lots of players go through, build up, then quit. I would bet over half the bases were obvious thaumcraft and ars magica fans, i saw little real tech. I mentioned it to the admin once, he agreed that it was odd.
Why would you play a ack that is centered around gregtech and then not use gregtech? Weird.
i mean if there would be atleast a German Let's play of GT 5 (not in the beyond reality pack or any modpack that has balance issues).
I agree on botania and the other magic mods like blood magic, but i kind of like using dungeon mods to encourage exploration. it ruins some balance to find some chrome in a dungeon, but i dont find it fun to only sit in my base either.
I think the problem with most magic mods is that you can't really adjust them with minetweaker as easily as you can the tech mods. in the beyond reality pack they focused on nerfing all the tech mods, but then (the last I checked) left all the magic mods intact. So when i tried the 1.7 beta server, all anyone was talking about was blood magic.
ill try when I can.
You can change and remove the iron furnace recipe itself, and you could change the burn values of everything in furnaces (apart from the vanilla items, which have hardcoded burn times). It would be hard/grindy to do though.
Do vanilla items burn times affect modded furnaces though?
What I am wondering is, what if you spawned into a world with ic2 and forestry, railcraft, bc, but you had players E-net installed, and all non ic2 power generators disabled. THen you cut ic2 power generation by 50%, or even more. You disable the vanilla furnace and... maybe have some sort of spawn building that has generators and basic electric furnaces set up or something for people. Somehow people need to be able to smelt food and basic ores from the start.
At that point, you can now tailor the game however you want, right?
And if you made 1 piece of coal smelt one pice of iron, instead 8 pieces of iron, now a forestry multifarm isn't a very big deal at all. This would also mean quarries would require 8x the energy without any changes to the bc config. Everything now takes 8x the power (or whatever you set it at).
Doesnt this turn basic ic2, forestry, etc. into GT type machines? I guess the problem is railcraft and steam.
I guess there just is no way to do it. What id like to do is instead of removing auto miners and tree farms to make packs harder, make the machines or goals require tons of power and resources, not just GT either. Like minetweaker Iron Chests to require Dense Plates for the recipes, etc. Just using plates is not enough, you can still do that via hand mining, all adding Plates to Iron Chests recipes does is now make them a higher tier to craft (requires plate bender type machine). but the real COST isn't higher.
Or one time I saw a guy say he wished that ores and dusts smelted into nuggets of metal, not an ingot. So you needed 9 dusts to make 9 nuggets, to then make an ingot. Now the cost of all machines from all mods increases by 9x.
GT makes mid to late tier machines harder to create by making the material hard to get, like say stainless steel for something, but id love to see higher tier machines using Dense Plates that took 81 dusts for each plate to craft. Think of a machine casing that takes 8x dense plates, which each dense plate taking 81 dusts each. 648 dusts for one machine casing, and you could easily make recipes that would take 1000 ores to craft.
This would mean auto mining was essential to mid to late game, and you MUST automate production to be making those higher priced items. IMO its harder to hand mine a whole world, but it also means that you only ever have to macerate or smelt a backpack full of ores per what... 3 hours of play time? You mine for 3 hours then toss the ores into a hopper and youre done. You dont even really need pipes too badly, in 1.6 i just made chests and hoppers, then chests on the output of machines. Even moving stuff to new machines wasnt that hard.
With a single machine costing 1000 ores, you have to set up a big *automated* processing operation to build the next tier of machines.
This would also make it easy to 'super gregify' any mod. If you could make dusts and ores smelt into 1 nugget each, every mod now gets more like GT. Add some dense plates to some of the higher end machines and bam! Big modpack with many mods that is also Hard Mode.
If I was to set the basic ic2 power to .5 for all machines this would double the power required for all machines but not in GT anymore right?
And this would make non electric machines OP, like a vanilla or iron furnace.
And there is no way to remove or change the recipe for iron furnaces with minetweaker I've read?
<mDiyo> GregTech, Forestry, Mekanism, Thaumcraft... there are mods with their own purpose built in.
He's really talking about one of the most basic arguments in modded mc though. Should the game provide a goal, or just provide you tools and let you screw around in the sandbox? IMO the only real 'sandbox' option in minecraft is creative mode. Survival mode itself provides at least one goal: survive.
Mdiyo is wrong for insulting EnderIO though. People can use that mod to attain other goals that they set themselves or goals set down by another mod, or a modpack maker. Not every mod has to have a goal.
But at least someone is speaking out and sasying that most contemporary modpacks are just creative mode.
Taking the IC2 example, you'd just drop the generation modifier to 0.1 for everything else to be 10x more expensive power wise.
That does fix ic2, but now a vanilla furnace is more efficient than an electric one. right? Or even an iron furnace.
and it still means bc is normal, or forestry, etc. hmm... do all of those mods have that similar setting? That might be interesting...
The irony is real when you see the suggested mods...
Tbh, I wouldn't mind if mDiyo tried GT or was invited on servers like Kirara to see how it works, even if he still doesn't like the mod after.
This kind of things breaks misconceptions (polite term for "bullshit") spread about GT and its community, and it's a good thing.
My biggest frustration is iwth the people who say to 'just make a castle out of iron bricks!' sigh. I hate that argument.
The most hilarious thing about ftb is that 2 years ago I saw TONS of complaints on those forums where people said 'ok so in GT you make a fusion reactor.. and then what?? It has no use, you can't use the power for anyhing!!!!111'
And now Big Reactors is hugely popular, with almost no work you get more power than you can ever need in most any ftb pack. Except the mfr laser drill.
Railcraft had the right idea, making the Rock Crusher take 17 mj/t to run. A macerator shouldnt run on a few eu, it should be 128 eu, imo. Remove the macerator and only have something like an industrial grinder, make ore doubling mid game only.
greg, can you do this please?
side note: why dont mods let you increase the power requirements of their machines? You can set ic2 reactors to put our more base power right? Why not let me increase all ic2 machine requirements by 2x. Or 10x? Or whatever.
I was curious about thaumcraft balance with GT.
I have read that TC was considered balanced, and thats why greg added support to the mod. I thought TC made some things pretty easy.
Cinderpearls are the biggest culprit. What is supposed to be a rare resource is now easy to find, just walk around the desert.
The mirrors are another one... it's a tesseract that doesn't use energy, right? Seems pretty OP. The thaumcraft bore also seems OP. Not like a BC quarry, but once you research it, its really op and requires no power if I remember correctly?
The integration also makes things easier. I dont play TC but its in the pack that blockmaster and I made... the shards I find are just free resources to make hammers and tools with INSTEAD of using up my precious iron. We have our pack set to easy mode gt anyway so it doesn't really matter, but I was suprised when I heard that thaumcraft was considered on par with gregtech. Sure its not MFR or Thermal Expansion, but adding it to a pack does make the game much easier, doesn't it?
I guess the cinderpearls affect other mods more than gt. The railcraft blast furnace is MUCH harder to make without TC installed. I doubt many players even realize how much harder it is, as most players have probably had tc in any pack they have ever played. Cinder pearls let you just enter the nether, grab some quick soul sand and nether rack, go back home, and start making steel. You dont even need armor, just grab some stone tools and go into the nether naked in case you die, you lose nothing.
Actually fighting blazes though means at least risking armor and a sword and/or a bow. Armor is not cheap if youre playing hard mode gt.
I don't see any way to disable cinder pearls, or make them more rare in the tc config either.
Do you guys consider tc to be 'hard mode'?