Posts by Lor

Quote from Alblaka in a PM (in same thread, gave permission to quote) [sic]:

Quote

Indeed 100 1EU packets cause 100 times the labor (> ms ned by CPU) a single 100EU packet would cause.

This labor is, however, abyssimally small in IC² (whilst it was a killer in IC1) and can be neclected.

However, nontheless the simple existance of 100 Generator producing said small packages is a significant amount of labor, compared to a few Geothermals (or Nuclears, though these again cause a lot of labor due to the way their calculation works).

Using High-yield (Generator, GeoGen, Reactor with high output) generators IS less labor-creating then using numerious smaller generators. In the end both are quite neclectable in regards to labor until you intend to build them in masses (talking about a few k and upwards).

Wiring is barely capable of creating any real lag. The only time it can is by removing/adding(or in regards to Splitter cables, switching) elements of the Enet. Thus if you build a giant 32³ cube of wires and
then connect a splitter cable with a rapidly ticking redstone clock, it's "User-created wiring lag", yes. Otherwise you should barely see issues.

The most noticeable lag issue of IC² is sound, currently.

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I am a bit puzzled by this suggestion -- turning a generator into a hybrid storage block, and internalizing the cabling.

I say "storage block" since, assuming the generation of EU occurs prior to transmitting, a solar 'downstream' (closer to the stalk of the solar flower) would need to store all or a portion of the EU transmitted to it during the previous tick. I am unfamiliar with the code for the E-net, so I don't know how possible it is to combine the two classes of object.

Putting that aside, we have the concern of size. If restricted to LV, one would be able to construct a field roughly 64x64 (imagine a grid of city blocks and how one would calculate the distances). This is greater than the distance permitted by tin nets, and thus may tend to encourage solar spamming. I am given to understand from Alblaka that EU-spam is virtually non-existent. One would need to experiment to find out if this new mechanism would offset the increase in solar sun-checks, which I am also given to understand has become negligible. (whoops, tin would be 80x80. Found during proofreading)In addition, it has the additional property of decreasing the cost of a solar field by the cost of the cables -- especially when using an electric wrench.

Personally, I would be more inclined towards a mechanism for coloring tin cables (which has been previously suggested). Such would do something similar to this without the additional algorithmic overhead of having to double-wrench a solar to remove it, nor of having to make sure you don't miswire your solar-chains and cause an explosion. (*)

Not a bad idea, but I think it requires some further refinement to avoid exacerbating what it may be intended to ameliorate.

* -- Okay, so the explosion possibility may be a plus to some who dislike solar

Alblaka has made his opinion of enchanting electric tools obvious. I admit to a bit of laziness in not searching for quotes, but they do exist either on this forum or in the blog.

For example, enchanting the Drill was at one point possible (right after enchanting was added to vanilla minecraft). When the hook was added to Forge to explicitly exclude tools from being enchantable, all the electric tools were thus changed. Similar ideas apply to the repairing mechanic.

Putting aside the mod owner's opinion, one must look at resources and balance. If I read the wiki correctly (and assuming it is up to date), the Unbreaking enchantment does not make the tool indestructible, but merely dramatically increases its durability. It will eventually break. The diamond drill (baring a lava or cacti immersion) will not.

You state that an enchanted diamond pick is superior to the diamond drill. However, in the long run, you will need to spend additional diamonds; either by repairing it if possible, or by creating a new pick and re-enchanting it. Any insufficiency of the diamond drill can be easily offset by this simple fact: All it takes to "repair" the diamond drill is a generator and sufficient (often less expensive than diamonds) fuel.

WOAH WOAH WOAH! Tangents Ahoy! Let's try to bring this back.

@ CrafterOfMines57: Okay, I admit it was only 2 trials. I might have had a non-typical experience.

@ (All other ideas): No. Or, at least, not exclusively. The original idea was one purposefully without tools, without automation, and certainly without IC2 Machines. I would want to see a crafting recipe at least; perhaps close to the least efficient. For example, CrafterOfMines57 offered the 3-7 range. Some simple math reveals that the expected value of that range is 5 consistently -- so perhaps the base crafting recipe would offer 4 slices per melon.

Macerator: I agree that the macerator is likely to result in a slurry of both watermelon and rind.

Extractor: If one would picture the extractor inserting a syringe into the melon and extracting the nutrition within, one might end up with several pieces of a concentrated jelly. Say 6 or 7 pieces of this jelly that for the sake of simplicity would act exactly like and have the same item_number as the melon slice.

Chainsaw: I doubt that this will happen, but if it would, I believe you are attempting to replicate the functionality of all of Eloraam's tools in crafting. The replication would be such that a melon plus a chainsaw would result in 8 or maybe even 9 slices and a chainsaw with reduced battery power.

-----

So in conclusion, I'd like to stress that the recipe is the base of the idea. For example, when:

• You find melon seeds before you find enough redstone to industrialize
• You are away from your base and don't want to have to break the block.

But once you industrialize, there may indeed be improvements, just as rubber production increases once you get the extractor.
Thanks for reading.

Vanilla Minecraft/Vanilla Farming: You break the melon blocks to get melon slices

IC2 Agriculture of Melons: Crops yield melon blocks and slices. The slices are immediately useful, but the blocks need to be placed, broken, and collected.

Suggestion: In trials, it seemed that the melon always dropped 6 slices. Instead of breaking the block, I would advocate a shapeless recipe (so one could use it without a crafting bench) of 1 melon -> 6 melon slices.

Once again, a very minor tweak, but I believe a needed one to interface IC2-Agriculture correctly with all the (pre 1.3) vanilla crops.

My own earlier thread (lava-centric)

The main issue I see regarding using this for biofuel is the extractor. In normal tin operation, the inputted cell is used again for the output. For any multi-use cell, one would need multiple "compartments"

• The number of bio cells contained
• The number of fuel cell contained

• At the very least, the current Minecraft/IC UI just doesn't support multiple gauges. Now it may be possible to avoid the 'damage' UI used in the IC tools and instead use a tooltip (as used with the analyzed seedbags). A bit odd for a charged item, but perhaps doable.
• Next, finding a way of representing in the extractor that it is actually doing something (since all that would be happening would be changing values in the tooltip). A similar argument for the canner.
• Third, how to craft using a multi-cell with 20 charges and thus require 20x of whatever resource(s) you need for other fuels -- and how to add additional gauges for those fuels.

Overall, I'll avoid here the question of 'should' or 'should not', and what the recipe should be for a bio-enabled cell, but in general the implementations I can think of for a multi-use biocell just seem clunky at best. And the creation of machine(s) whose only use would be to support an addition are usually frowned upon, though there are exceptions.

Of course, I admit to a bit of bias. I've not yet found a great use for biofuel. I usually find lava or wood or coal (or even construct a solargen or two) instead of using it; and I use the electric jetpack. *shrug*

Quote from FenixR

Eloraam FORBID any Bluetricity>To Anything Conversion (Except for a few cases like Thaumcraft).

She already have some conversions planned down her dev tree so just wait for it.

My own thought is that she might be reluctant to introduce any BlueAPI for with the thought that she might need to change something -- there have been a few changes where the changelog included a "This changed <x>, had to happen, tried to minimize impact"-like message. If there were other mods reliant on RP2, it would cause some major outcry.

So far as the BC-IC conversion, it is first on the Add-ons forum

EDIT: Typo fixed

Having multiple energy-storage units increases the amount of EU that can be delivered on short notice (say, into a Massfab).

Example:

• 1 MFE = 128 EU/t
• 4 MFE = 4*128 EU/t = 512 EU/t
• One MFSU = 512 EU/t
• 4 MFSU = 2048 EU/t

Advantages:

• Lower voltage wires (4*128 is still just MV)
• Burst rate: You can run your nuclear plant and keep watch on it in case your control systems fail, and then go mining/exploring while your safer massfab runs and your nuclear plant is in cooldown/ice generation.
• Looks more like an energy substation (okay, perhaps a minor point).

Bringing this into the balancer discussion, if these are wired in parallel

with the generator(s) above the center wire spire (and the outputs pointing outwards radially and coming together again underneath), then you have little problem. They will charge equally and discharge equally. Having more storage blocks simply means having additional blocks of 4 MFEs/MFSUs strategically wired to take advantage of equal splits in EU.
However, EU wire-loss puts a cap on how many splits can be accomplished.

Also, wiring the outputs of the above to the input to accomplish balancing is likely laggy in large applications (I've tested it in miniature on a Creative world, and it does balance the EU).

Wiring a bank of storage blocks like some have their wind-gens (like the above in cross-section, but stacked directly atop one another) is more compact, but as the Original Poster stated, the ones nearer the generator(s) get charged the most.

Multiple storage blocks and the balancing thereof does have a valid use, and I do like the suggestion. However, I fear that even a bank of balancer blocks would suffer from difficult lag in such a configuration. If someone more familiar with the internals of the E-net were to find a viable algorithm this could be worthwhile.

It might be worth it just to see someone pipe nuclear output into a huge bank of Batboxes (only on SSP, of course).

Was not aware it was staged. Definitely didn't see any such picture (don't particularly want to, either). Oh well.

Not every nuke-fest was staged, though.

And I agree that any culture change isn't likely to happen. Can still advocate it.

Quote from baturinsky

Is there any comprehensive read about how wiring is done now? I was thinking it is still more or less same as in IC, with loss per distance.

I apologize for not searching out my reference, but if I recall correctly, another large difference was that of "need". In IC, the EUs would be sent along any cable connected to an out. At one now-embarrassing time, I had a loop of cable around a room (some of which were luminators). Even before I closed the loop back to the MFE, there was current in that cable. Under IC2, if there is no need for the EUs somewhere, then no EUs flow.

I believe it is analogous to Buildcraft vs Redpower. In BC, the items go and may fall out if the machine on the other end cannot hold them. Under Redpower, those items either will never enter the pipe or will flow back.

What I can remember is that this may have been in some description from Al regarding the differences between the time IC was cancelled and IC2 came out, or the early days of IC2.

I don't think post restrictions would be a good idea. In order to make my point, I will attempt to make some broad strokes as to sets of users.

• Lurkers -- Never post, never will.
• One post wonders -- stop by, make a post, and then leave.
• Learners -- Like (2), but might have been willing to stick around. They are repulsed by the giant neon "No"'s
• Rare poster -- Tend toward few posts, longer posts. Spent enough time as (1) to read the posts and learn to avoid the bad topics.
• Mainstream -- Many, many posts. Some incredibly short, others longer and more detailed.

There are a number of subdivisions to (5), but I'll just lump them.

If one would make a post restriction,

• Lurkers: No change
• One post wonders: Either they become lurkers, leave, or progress more slowly to mainstream. Some might indeed be of the "lightning rod" crowd, but some might also be "Charcoal" or "Compressed Solar"
• Learners: Two forces. On the one hand, their first post may never occur, so they go lurker or disappear. On the other, you have the progression towards (4) and (5).
• Rare poster -- Would be forced to post more often before they could bring up their own topics.
• Mainstream: No change.

I think you would avoid the "Lightning Rods" but may also lose a few ideas. Some would stop by to make what would indeed be a good idea, but would never stick around to make enough posts.

By the law of unintended consequences, it is my thought that there would be an increase in two types of posts.

• "Me too", and "Plus one" posts. Posts for the pure purposes of increasing one's count.
• "That's a good idea, but this would be better" (ie, threadjacks). May require even more administration than the current. Why bother making 20 posts when you can just post in someone else's first thread?

On my own, I would advocate a change in culture. Instead of "Welcome to the forums, hold this nuke, use the search next time", how about replying with the links to the "Denied topics" thread, or at the very least a good search term to use. Prove that the search function works. It could even just be a form-letter thing you could cut-paste. I regret I cannot name names, but I have noticed this trend occasionally, and applaud it. I mean, when an admittedly new poster (may have been youth or a language barrier) is reduced to angry tears (yep, it happened), that can't be a good thing.

*shrug*
If the restriction were to be put into place, it should be lower than 20. 10, or maybe even 5, which may serve to reduce the above unintended consequences.

EDIT: A few edits to restate things in a less confrontation way, and to correct mistakes.

I would contend against the prevailing opinion that neither this suggestion nor a Mining Laser in a Deployer is a turret, as "turret" conjures to my mind a degree of rotation and aiming without use of a wrench nor a screwdriver, not a Dispenser full of arrows. A snowman is more of a turret than these, as is a Tesla Coil.

Another detail that further separates the Deployer model from the Original Idea is charging. The suggestion intended this to be connected to the E-Net. The Deployer model requires a steady supply of mining lasers or an EU-sneakernet. Granted, the suggestion also mentioned batteries.

All in all, I like the idea: Well stated, uses for harvesting as well as for digging without the dangers of falling and for getting rid of that pesky mountain by pulling a lever behind a blast shield.

However, the Deployer model is a close workaround until such time as this is implemented, if ever. I would urge the suggester to set up another legal instance of vanilla and play a creative world in Single-Player using IC2 and RP to just test-drive it for awhile. Just remember to put something un-laserable at the end of your crop-line so your auto-harvester doesn't zap you.

(In general, I would urge everyone to download a fresh vanilla instance, since the lag between 1.25 and 1.3 may be a bit longer than usual )

Quote from FenixR

Changed in one of the lastest snapshots, but we won't be seeing anything made with this because most likely than not we won't see a good chunk of mods updated to 1.3. (Since they won't be releasing the mod api yet, maybe some shenanigans done in those snapshot that makes modding minecraft somewhat more difficult with the current tools.)

I was going to state how mistaken this was, as I remember a fix to 'the bucket problem' being a bonus feature of ModLoader at least a year ago (back before I used IC). However I tested it, and while the bucket was preserved in the iron furnace, the stone model ate the bucket. So it seems the fix was somehow unfixed.

I may mess around with reinstalling incrementally and see if there is a combination where it works. Until then, I withdraw my implementation idea, but not my support.

Neat crossover idea.

The biggest caveats I see are

• If you have the block create coal or another item, then the heater becomes a poor-man's mass fabricator.
• Since the point is to make it 'burnable', it would be burnable in a generator. You would have to make sure that the EU generated in the generator wouldn't exceed the cost to heat the item.

If I may offer a possible implementation?

• Lava cell into Extractor --> Depleted Heater Cell
• Depleted Heated Cell into Heater --> Heater Cell
• Heater Cell is a burnable like a lava bucket in that it will return the 'empty bucket' (ie, a new deplete heater cell)

*shrug* Thought it would be an interesting parallel with creating a cooling cell.

If you wanted another use for the cell, perhaps it would behave similarly as lava bucket does in a reactor; likewise leaving a depleted cell rather than an empty bucket.

Is this useful towards what you were thinking?

Quote from neroe5

by Crude i mean that I see it more as a base element

if more complex objects are to be made it seems to be rather larger in size, in comparison to electricity
i know that the fundamental ideas of both are the same
additionally i consider redstone to be much more static in the outcome, i know that in theory you could make an fully funktional "micro" processor, and it would be awesome, but something like that would hardly be small

Putting aside everything about the account and getting back to the above, I think you may be unaware of the difference we are making.

Redstone == Red dust that is in vanilla minecraft, and the circuitry created with it.
Redpower == A mod written by Eloraam (www.eloraam.com) which at its most basic adds

• Single-tile logic gates (which significantly decreases the size and bugginess of circuits). For example, in vanilla you can make a 5-clock that takes up a significant amount of real estate; or you can craft a timer that will take up 1 block.
• Redstone-ish circuitry that can be placed on walls (No more stair-stepping required).
• Colored insulation and bundling that both reduces lag (insulated cable doesn't 'charge' the block it is on) and reduces complexity (insulated cable that is different colors doesn't interact)

If I am correct that you were unaware of this mod, I would encourage you to check it out. I've just scratched the surface (both in my own use and in this description).

Quote from Zach

I see no problem with this, It actually might make geothermals used into the late game. at least for me. 4 iridium plates though, that's a lot of EUs you would need to drain several lakes of lava to recuperate that power. And what happens when you fill it partly with lava and partly with water.

Yes, that was why I was thinking more along the lines of a single iridium (ore or plate) with a cell. You can say that one wrapped it around. Could justify any recipe once you figure out where you want it.

So far as the mixing of liquids, I would fall on the side of it being impossible. Try to do so and the grab just fails. Making it able to hold different liquids was actually something I hadn't considered. It would likely complicate the implementation, but any support I have on that assertion is me just making suppositions, so I'll stay out of that particular hole.

In short, no to mixing, and a maybe to having the cell able to hold large quantities of multiple liquids (one at a time).

{u]Assumption:: I'll be referencing a mechanic present in RP2. I'm aware this is IC2, but I am assuming that the mechanic is in forge, and not exclusively in RP2. Secondly, I know that by the time you are able to acquire this, tin will not be an issue at all.

Summary A cell that can not only carry a large amount of lava, but can be reused once empty.

Recipe: I've a number of possible recipes, but all are decidedly high end. One has a single iridium plate and tin cell(s). Another has 4 iridium ores or 4 iridium plates.

Usage: As one would use a normal cell. However, on each use on a lava source, the "iridium cell" would charge (like a battery or an electric tool). On placing into a geothermal generator, it would discharge its stock of lava until empty (like a stack of cells would normally). It would not disappear, but would simply be an like an empty battery ready to be recharged on the next lake of lava.

Capacity: Another property I'll leave to any implementer. It would need to be evenly divisible into the range of possible values for damage, but for the price I would hope it would be at least worth 64 lava sources.

Additional Possible Usage: When crafted with an empty bucket, it will fill that bucket and subtract a single 'charge' from the cell. Or, one could instead place both a bucket and the cell into a custom-built machine, but a machine for one purpose has been denied very often. This is the RP2 mechanic; used mostly with the saws, but similar is used for crafting drills and saws out of full batteries, so I'm assuming this is a forge thing.

Thanks for reading.

I'm liking the idea of the Electrolyzer model, but just to throw out another idea, (at the risk of becoming known as the 'add to GUI guy ')

What about enabling the "Energy Storage Upgrade" to be added to Existing storage-blocks? Would enable an additional 64k of storage with a single stack if I remember correctly.

The idea of energy blanks looking more realistic, and the algorithm of the control block (seems like the memory blocks in screenshots) is very appealing, but I wonder if keeping it within existing items would be better and/or more likely to be implemented.

Less item ids, less blocks, etc.

Thoughts?

Current: To the best of my knowledge, all generators can be broken and return a vanilla generator.

• Geothermals
• Solar
• Vanilla (of course)
• Haven't tried Nuclear, nor windmills

However, due to the possibility of getting infinite iron via creation/destruction, watermills always return themselves.

Suggestion: The addition of a shapeless recipe that would take 2 watermills and return a vanilla generator. The wood used originally would be lost.

Why?: Let us suppose to either don't use watermills after a certain point or you decide to change that watertower into something else. Without this, you are forced to either recycle the tower and hope for the best, or leave it and go find all new redstone, tin, and iron. With this, you will still need to get the upgrade materials yourself, but at least you have the base generator.

Another way of saying:

• current Cost of 1 geothermal = 2 refined iron + 4 glass + 2 cells + 1 generator
• Cost with suggestion implemented = 2 refined iron + 4 glass + 2 cells + 2 watermills.

Thanks for reading

Current: In order to charge one's armor, one must

• Remove it into inventory
• Click on the EU-block (Batbox, MFE, MFSU)
• Drag into the charge slot of the EU-block
• Wait for charge
• Drag back into inventory
• Exit EU-block
• Move armor from inventory back onto the appropriate armor slot

Proposal: That in addition to the slots shown in the EU-block, that the 4 slots for armor also be shown. This would change the above process to:

• Click on the EU-block (Batbox, MFE, MFSU)
• Drag armor from new armor slots to charge slot
• Wait for charge
• Drag back onto armor slot

The current situation is a minor irritation at worst, but assuming this idea is possible with a reasonable amount of work, I think this would certainly be an improvement. I would like to emphasize that this is not a suggestion that the EU-block automatically charge the armor. Just a change to lessen the number of clicks and enable charging with a full inventory (without dropping/storing something).

Thanks for reading.