Posts by Bluehorazon

Well Lava into the Geo-Gen, but not Water into the Water-Gen. I don't remember another Generator which accepts liquids. Making a nuclear reactor accept water or lava pumped into it would be a bit more difficult (and actually... who would really want to pump lava into a nuclear reactor).

Quote from RichardG

I'm pretty sure it's a Forge bug with special armor.

Do you refer to diamond-armor as special? Since I lost a diamond-armor by just dropping down 5 tiles. But the Iron-Armor I wear now seems indestructible (at tried falling battling with zombies, exploding creepers... the durability is still full).

On the last site I posted a setup for "No-Seed-Breeding" which might be usable in this situation. Needs some time, but if you get more and more "trollweed" the chance of the middle block becoming trollweed increases (if you make the middle block a crossbreeder).

Hmm... I'm not sure. But compared to the total materials I might even manage to build a setup only using generators which provides more Power and will cost less, well it's just 39 generators and an automated treefarm. But Again Nuclears are totally out of this discussion.

Solars, Winds and Water are like Generator intermediate Energy-Sources. They are not meant to feed massfabs or such, but they run your everyday-machinery. You won't run your first two macerators using a nuclear reactor. But using 4 Watergens with a bucketfiller and some storage will be enough to power your first machines. Some Windmills (10 are more then enough) will easily produce enough energy for macerating and smelting everything you find underneath the earth. Some Solars are great to build small recharge-stations for tools and packs. The only gen that is somehow a rival to nuclear-power is the Geo-Gen, because it actually is the only gen that needs something expensive to run, namely lava. But again with a lucky start or some fast digging underground you might even use the Geo-Gen right at the beginning, but since he isn't so easy to automated into an endless cycle he is somewhere out of this discussion.

So basically Generator, Water-Gen, Solars and Wind-Gens fight for being the superior fire and forget energy-source, which you will drop early. All have there value, but this discussion is about if pumping water into the water-gen would favor it against the others.

Watergen
+Cheap
+Cheap Fuel
+Could be used unmanned and later used manned if the machines necessary are avaible
-Early Setup would require many Batboxes and Cables since even slight loss will kill the small EU/t Production

Generator
+Placeable everywhere
+Produces much EU/t (large pakets decreases the negative impact of energy-loss)
+Cheap
+Able to burn many materials if EUs are needed
-Although later automation is possible you need to think about placement

Windmill
+Produces a lot of EU
+Even without any Fuel
-Hard to setup without glass fibre

Solar-Gen
+Easy to setup
+Fair amount of EU without Fuel
+Placeable next to each other
-Expensive
-Hates Night, Rain and Thunderstorms
-Relies on energy-storage

If you don't care about BatBox-Waste and setting up I think Windmills are Nr. 1
Solars are good if you need small amounts of energy. I have a small Solar-Plant near my "sawmill" to refill my batpack, which seems to be a fair use of solars. If you set up lots of them you might also invest a little bit more time for setting up a windpark if you have the space and exspecially if you have glass-fibre cables, which makes setting up windfarms much easier.

Generators and WaterGens are the great winners if you use additional mods for automation. They are both able to beat Wind and Solar anytime, since Water produce constant 2 EU/t and Generators up to 9EU/t (10 is only reachable if directly burning reeds, since you normally use some of the produced energy to process the materials that are burnt).

So clean IC2 without mods I would go for early Solars and Wind. With RP or BC Generators and Watergens are really great to start with since they are incredible if you manage to build a clever automation system. This is exspecially true for the Watergens which become incredible good early on if you manage to get two diamonds for a saw to make a retriever with redpower (or use IC-Diamonds, which will work now too, since they became normal diamonds).

Under this impression I don't feel anything speaking against pumping water into the Water-Gen. It would just equal BC with Redpower, since BC without Addons makes it a little bit harder to retrieve the empty buckets (although possible).

I started using alternatives.

First is the Cobblestone-Generator... really it turns Cobblestone into Energy.

I use Redpower Building a cobblestone-generator and feed cobblestone into a recycler. Every 8 Cobblestone nets one Scrap which is burnt for 870 EU. Provides about 2 EU/t (since one recycler doesn:t provide enough Scrap to make the Gen run permanently). With 3 Recyclers you reach the maximum of about 7 EU/t. (the Generator works almost permanently), since 3 EU/t are needed to run the recyclers.

Second is the Reed-Generator...

I don't want to bother with turning reeds into fuel. So I just burn them directly. Thats incredible easy, because you could use RP for harvesting the reeds on cropsticks and collect them with transposers. It's easy to set up, but doesn't provide much power. But since you might use the reeds for other things too, it's just a method of getting rid of the overproduction.

The diamonds shouldn't be replaced.

But the Coal + Glas in the Solars should be replaced by silicon. Redstone in the advanced circuit should also be replaced by the above silicon. The advanced machine should be also need one purified silicon at each corner (making them slightly more expensive). Upgrade-Modules should waste a lot of silicon somehow.

So production would go:

Sand -> Macerate -> SiO2-Dust -> Furnace -> Silicon -> 8 Silicon + Redstone -> Purified Silicon -> Furnace/Compressor (neither is that realistic :P) -> Monocrystalline Silicon (we need this).

This would be used in circuits (3 in the middle row, 6 cables around it), 6 of this would replace coal-dust and glass in solars (or only the coal dust, leaving 3 glass on top) etc.

This would also increase the amount of time needed to set up solars, since there are many steps necessary to produce silicon for solars. The original circuit-recipe is still needed (for first machines), but if you use a lot of silicon you might always have some around.

Quote from FenixR

For such "Abusive" energy system, its only appropriate that a complicated system should be made in order to abuse them like so. Pumping water with BC water pipes its such a "Abusive" idea because the amount of water you can find and pump its at least 100x of the Lava needed to power a Geothermal also Lava exist in abundance, but its actually quite complicated at times to find these lakes, unlike water where you can simple move a few chunks and find a absurdely big water source (I have been draining a river with 2 pumps for a few days and there is still quite a crapload of water to pump from it, its actually quite amazing).

Besides Albaka also think of WaterMills as a Pretty OP energy source, otherwise why would you think that watermill can only be powered with BUCKETS and not with CELLS?

I guess, because it's even more abusive with buckets since you don't have to replace them. 4000 EU for each Tin-Ingot? That's not really much. It's 80.000 EU for each Tin-Ingot if you use Geo-Gens. So basically water is better and since endless-waterpools are easy to transport buckets are far easier to use than Cells, compared to the geo-gen. I guess there is just no need for Cells in the Water-Gen because it would be quite a waste and water is easy to get nearby. The Cell-Thing for Lava is mainly because you have to travel over a great distance.

So the question is not why Cells are forbidden for Water-Gens it is why they are allowed for Geo-Gens. If you automate your manned Watermills you might as well automatically draw out the empty buckets which is possible with either RP or BC, which you would also need to pump water or cells into the watermill. So basically there is no difference. A retriever isn't that expensive if you manage to get 2 ender-pearls and filter and deployer are even cheaper. So even if the PC Pump is even cheaper the placement is limited to somewhere near a moderate amount of water, as the bucket-mode only needs a small endless source of water.

As soon as any kind of blockinteraction like Breaking (Cobble -> Recycler -> Generator) or Interacting (Water -> Deployer -> Watermill) comes in play IC2-Energy-Production is broken in terms of balance. The watermill is fine in regards to this. I consider the Recycler -> Generator to be a greater problem, since the Watermill only outputs 2 EU/t while the Generator runs on 10 EU/t.

Quote from Rick

tier 3 will drain insane amounts of way more than a mass fab will drain. We would need a tier 10 storage to power it....MSFU does not nearly supply enough energy with 512 eu/tick. I tested this with 64 overclockers. MSFU couldnt keep up with the energy requirement at all. Actualy the macerator does absolutely nothing with 64 overclockers in it (its so slow you cant notice it).

It might not even work. The Macerator can't store enough energy to run a single tick, because it would need almost 2k EU/t. But no machine is cabable of providing it with enough power to run on 2k EU/t. So you need to increase the storage enough that it can store 2k EU/t to even run

Oh I would add something to Version two.

How about an empty machine?

Just place down a machine-block and if you right-click it you get this GUI. Then you need to place certain parts in it to make it work as a certain machine. Then you have a tool to start it, which makes it turn into a working machine. With this same tool you could disable the machine again to add new stuff or to change things or to turn it into another machine.

Would be hell of a lot to think about, but could create macerating - compressors or a incredible triple-macerator. I guess creating a GUI for such machines that changes with the parts in it is a mess... but again it would be something really original.

Hmm... I bread reeds all day I got wheat once, but never sticky-reeds.

Sometimes I breed a new plant, but I don't get seeds from it so I use a new Breeding-Setup. A 5x5 Dirt-area.

Step one Until all Watermills are sticky-reeds (Solarpanels represent reeds)

Step two, until again all solar-panels are sticky-reeds.

:Rubber Log:

Step-three Batboxes are places I fill with stone. Watermills are my sticky-reeds and Windmill is my crossbreeder

:Batbox: :Batbox: :Batbox: :Batbox: :Batbox:
:Batbox: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Batbox:
:Batbox: :Water Mill: :Wind Mill: :Water Mill: :Batbox:
:Batbox: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Water Mill: :Batbox:
:Batbox: :Batbox: :Batbox: :Batbox: :Batbox:

This way I never have to harvest seeds and of course I get tons of reeds which feed a nearby generator to refill my batteries^^ (in near future I will recycle the reeds first and burn the scrap).

PS: Well... till now I haven't got any sticky-reed... but well

Edit: Replaced :Solar Panel: with :Rubber Log: since Solars turn into smilies.

Actually U-233 is potentially more dangerous because you need less. Under the best circumstance you only need about 430g of U-233, while it is over 600g for U-235. For Bombs (since the Uraniums ist solved in water) it would be 17kg for U-235 and about 7kg for U-233. Well but since U-233 is generated by breeding Thorium it's not part of the game.

But since Steve needs all his uranium for producing EU there is a point in only using Plutonium for bombs, and well the critical mass is quite small... it's about 8kg under normal circumstances (49kg for U-235) and would decrease further based on the bombdesign. Actually our nuke is a dirty bomb since it doesn't seem to cause a nuclear explosion but spreads our radioaktiv material widely... but well it's an easy recipe^^.

Plutonium has another advantage. Steve could create a RTG as some kind of fancy never-depleting-battery. You could put such a thing inside a machine to produce tiny amounts of EU as some kind of upgrade (well... the battery will deplete, but T(50) of Pu-238 is 88 years.

So basically I would go the Pu-Way if you want to change something. Pu is created by putting depleted cells into a breeder. Pu could be used to again produce Pu-Cells which don't work alone but need a Uranium-Cell nearby to provide power (to simulate MOX-Elements^^). And Pu could be used to make bombs.

Just face it. If you use another mod to pump liquid into the Geo-Gen you could do the same with Water-Buckets and a Watermill.

Unmanned Watermills don't really produce much power. Watermills in unmanned mode will be as good as solars under the best circumstance (they produce 0,25 EU/t but since they work all day and you get two out of the recipe it's much the same). But Achieving this is rather unlikely, because the EU/t is so small that you have to use good cables or place some badboxes and since you can only place one watermill every next block (need to be one space between them) it's a little bit troubling to set them up. Water-Towers on the other hand are easy to set up, but they only produce 0,17EU/t.

If you bring mods into play it is as easy to pump water in the watermill as it is to feed it with buckets. But the other point is. You would need a small watertower to create 2 EU/t. But to automatically feed a watermill with water you also need some ressources to set this up. Watermills are really cheap so you might end up investing more into your pump-system then the watertower would cost you.

Oh and the abusive energy-sources don't end here. Of course scrap has a better use, but by using 35 EU on a Dirt-Block you turn it into a 870 EU Item. RP-Cobble-Gen -> Recycler -> Generator.

Quote from Ferrus.Manus

From what I understand you will never weed in the cross-breeders, only in regular crops, so you shouldn't have problem telling them apart.

Oh well I definatly had weed in a crossbreeder. At least it looked like weed^^ ( I have some purposly placed weed to check against it for being sure it is weed).

Yeah, still running through 20 Blocks of reeds swinging your fist is easy enough. And reedfarms are far more compact. And you could auto-farm them with vanilla-mp too (close pistons and run water over the closed pistons to collect). If you argue with vanilla-MC you don't have any automation. So you have to always collect the dropped blocks, and doing this is only a little bit more time consuming then harvesting the reeds. The hard work is making plant-balls, compressing them and making bio-fuel. This takes way longer then manually harvesting 100 sugar-canes gaining 200 reeds which could be turned into 25 Plantballs.

And overall Cacti are just a so incredible useless plant, it was somehow cool to do something useful with them. Ok, you get green dye from it, but that's all.

So my core argument is that almost all materials for plantclumps are really easy to optain and in every case optaining the materials is much easier than the actual refining-process. So if people can't use cacti they will just use reeds or wheat which are both easy to get and even saplings are incredible abundant if you really hunt for wood. I thought the whole purpose of the plantball was to be easy to optain but hard to process into fuel.

Do your Seedbags drop as "unnamed"?

If yes I guess this is due to the actualization bug which actually occurs in SMP. Alblaka already said that he wants to fix it.

And the items normally drop, even in SMP. But they seem to drop at... strange locations, or whatever you want to call it.

Hmm... do you use the forge-fix? Try breaking some blocks, if it doesn't work you should search for the block-breaking-fix.

Quote from Alblaka

Question is, why do you claim he's trying to change the system by talking in an entirely irrelevant forum to an entirely irrelevant person (no offense intended)?
If I would want to change Eloraams decision and wouldn't be in my current position (= dev of a mod that's Eloraam trying to stay compatible to), i would probably try to persuade as many people as possible. If everyone asks Eloraam to do X, not doing X could have bad PR effects :3

Nontheless, didn't mean to interrupt your discussion, please proceed, i enjoy watching well-formed arguments. Proves the internet doesn't necessaryly turn every dispute into a flamewar.

Hmm... this deeply depends on the attidude of the modder and of the special situation.

I will just move on and take IC2-examples. A short view into the suggestion-forums brings up both options that are avaiable:

1. There are things you consider unimportant, but if there are enough people telling you it is important to them you might still implement it.
2. There are things you consider stupid or conflicting with the design you have in mind. Even with many people telling you to implement it you won't see these things in other terms. And here is the importance of the attidude. If people go for there own plans than they would just ignore the masses and keep on design their work like they want to. Or other will implement it although they feel it's a bad idea.

Quote

If everyone asks Eloraam to do X, not doing X could have bad PR effects :3

BtW changed my mind about this. FC is a strange and very... someone called it incombatible... person. He dropped forge and the only thing that matters for him and his mod is the fun he has while creating it. This is fine and his forum post often keep me entertained during work. Still BtW is as popular as ever, if not even more popular. That's mainly because he has a clear plan and is focused on his design, which becomes straight and is well formed due to ignoring most ideas from others. I think this behavior is less common if you have a dev-team, since I think even inside the IC2-Crew the greater plan for the mod may look different and there are various ideas. But an individual creator like eloraam or flowerchild have only one single individual to please and it's themself. Bevor everyone else comes into play they need to enjoy the process of creating the mod for themself and any rule they put in place basically exists to ensure their own enjoyment in modding.

Well...

You need energy once to store the data of a certain crop. This is rather cheap, it's basically the same as analyzing it with the cropnalyzer.

Then you can create seed-bags from this crop for a certain amount of EU based on the quality of the plant. The cost would be around one Million EU for most plants, with up to 50 Millionen for the best ones. Maybe should be doubled, or modified with a base-value so that even common plants are more costly. But it won't provide you with endless amounts.

A 3x3 crop-field yielding the best avaible plants would cost almost 500 Millionen EU, since every seedbag will cost about 50 Million.

Quote from alexthesax

Since when do we compare the real world with Minecraft xD

Since it's a good argument for our cause

I mean duplicating.

Extracting and Scanning shouldn't be that hard, but duplicating a really awesome plant should be costly.