Posts by Two

Quote from RichardG

4 is a vanilla bug which got fixed in the snapshot - the mobs aren't actually there.

Those mobs are definitely there: creepers blew up a reactor in a 3x3 room with bright light (suddenly spawned right next to a player).

So we did some tests yesterday on cable loss and stuff. Here are the results:

Setup 1
- 40 isolated copper cables connecting 2 Batboxes
- 10,000 EU is inserted into the sending Batbox

Result:
As expected there was a strong cable loss, only 8,120 EU were received.

Setup 2
- 40 isolated copper cables connecting a chain of 11 Batboxes, no individual connection between two boxes was longer than 4 cables.
-> ...
- 10,000 EU is inserted into the sending Batbox.

Result:
All 10,000 were received at the last Batbox.

That test shows clearly that 1 EU is lost ever X blocks; a single block of cable does not loose a fraction of EU. This was further verified using 39 blocks of tin cable and a water mill.
Those tests with water mills as well make me to theorize that the lowest possible amount of EU transfered could be 1 EU, but that requires further testing.

That test shows that you can hook up water mills at up to 39 blocks of tin cable without loosing a single EU. Water mills however are still extremely buggy and do not reliably work (using 1.95b). Sometimes they work as intended, sometimes the output 0 EU while they obviously work.

Mat you make me wish there was an ignore function in this board.

Quote from MatLaPatate

You know that Agriculture system is not for produce food ?
It's in order to try Crossbreeding, so break it when walking on is a good way to advantage people finding crops with high resistance level.

So once you have that super-charged, unbreakable wheat... what do you do with it if it's not about producing food? Throw it in the trash can?

Quote from GregoriusT

You know that the electric Wrench has a Lossless Mode, which breaks nothing?

Learned that about 5 seconds ago, thanks.

However the arguments above are still the same: it does not add value to the game and is plain annoying.

What was the reason (if any)? Just out of curiosity.

As it was changed in vanilla that you are now able to walk on farms, crop sticks should not break when walking on.

- This adds no value to the game and just annoys the player.
- Items that drop can land on the block the crop sticks are placed on and therefore can become unrecoverable. As the player has no way to influence where the items drop this is just annoying.
- When compared to walkable wheat farms, crop sticks are the worse alternative, therefore using the agriculture system for generating food is currently a bad choice just because crop sticks break.

Note: I am all for breaking sticks if you jump/fall on them.

Currently Water Mills produce at best 0.25EU per tick, then loose at least 10% of that on the first cable block. It is required to directly link water mills with a collector or transformer as otherwise too much EU is lost. This in general increases the cost of a single water mill by the Batboxes you have to add, and therefore beyond the cost of wind or solar generators, while producing a lot less EU and building a water works tower is way more complicated.

I think 1 EU / mill (unmanned) is the right amount. This would make them as efficient/material as wind mills (~2EU if placed correctly) but with a guaranteed output. The drawback is the difficulty in building a proper water mill tower, which is way more complicated than placing wind or solar generators, but then produces a more reliable output.

I think the material cost can stay the same, as you need a Batbox or MV-converter every 3-4 water mills if you build a tower of them to not loose too much EU on the cable.

... or include a config option to disable that feature.

Reason:
- Minecraft is about building things, the break chance however suggests to never move stuff around (read: rebuild your house). This is contradictory to the base MC idea.
- Usually players who loose a machine can afford to rebuild it, so all they loose is time and some material that can be easily replaced. As there is no way to prevent this, the main effect of it is, that the player is annoyed.
- The break chance is a chance, therefore it can happen that something breaks 3 times in a row. Happened to a friend during reactor placement, he lost the reactor chamber 3 times then rage-quit.

Hi,

After playing 1.95b on my server with friends for a while we encountered several bugs that I'd like to list here:

- Nanosaber does not always change it's look (blinking, non-blinkin) when right-clicked. It reliably does change the mode, though. Work-around: drop the saber on the floor and pick it back up to reset it.
- Water Mills sometimes do not output any energy at all, even if the setup is right (and they do output energy later on in the same setup).
- Dismantling a Transformer then placing it somewhere else can cause it to still transmit remaining power sometimes. I placed a setup of Transformer->3x isol. Iron->MFE right into the air (so nothing could have possibly connected) and the MFE was filling up with >2000 EU for no reason.
- Mobs sometimes warp through the ceiling (not sure if this is a vanilla or IC bug). We frequently had mobs appearing in one completely lit house right next to players until I figured out that there was a small room 40+ blocks below the house where mobs spawned and then somehow teleported upwards. After putting torches in that spawning point, mobs did not "spawn" in the house anymore.

Edit: moar bugs:
- When using a teleporter over a distance large enough to cause the server to unload the chunks with the initial teleporter, buttons and pressure plates used to activate the teleporter can become stuck. That is: as soon as the chunk is activated again (e.g. teleported back) the button/plate is loaded in the state "pressed", causing the teleporter to constantly teleport everything back to where it came from.
- Quantum boots only work if chest armor is worn, otherwise they will only lower the falling damage but not completely negate it.
- Quantum helmets do not work properly inside the Nether. They do resupply the food bar, but not to a level where the player will regenerate health points.
- Quantum boots do not work inside the Nether at all.
- An equipped Lappack is not always updated properly when using tools that use up energy. Unequipping and reequipping the Lappack will cause the damage bar to be updated properly.
- Using a high-res texture pack (Misa) can cause some clients to be unable to dismantle machines with a wrench, they instead rotate into a random direction on each click (probably a Misa bug).
- Under circumstances where lots of sound sources are played a client can lag extremely. Disabling sound completely removes this lag.
- Sound of machines/tools sometimes just randomly stops playing (even if it is still running) or continues to play indefinitely until Minecraft is closed.
- Some parts of the Nether can cause extreme lag. This seems to be related to the lighting calculation (probably vanilla bug).

Quote from GregoriusT

*MEGA-Facepalm* you have lost ca. 100 EU per Packet and there were only 32 EU => You were transporting -68 EU or rounded up 0 EU

Exactly. So the poster right above that statement has to be wrong, because according to what he said, I would have received the EU.

Then why wasn't I receiving any power from my 100 blocks 3x isulated iron line that transported LV?

After experimenting with the water mills yesterday it seems like I just wasn't measuring long enough. As of the very low EU output, the reading stabilized at something like 1000 ticks and reported the expected values. However I encountered some other oddities:

Water Mills sometimes for no particular reason do not output energy at all
In the same setup without changing a single block, 4 water mills running on water supply that I manually added did output 0 EU. A few minutes later without me changing anything they suddenly, after consuming like 20 cans of water, started outputting their 1 EU each. I am not sure what causes these malfunctions, but those very much messed up my first readings.

Water Mills have a way too low output when running unmanned
With their 0.25 EU output maximum water mills loose already 10% of their generated EU on the first cable block, so to have them run efficiently you need to link them to a collector or transformer right away, which increases the effective production cost of water mills way beyond every other generator in the game. In addition a proper water mill setup is way more difficult to construct than a wind or solar setup, which makes them not only the most expensive (as those collectors/transformers are not optional), but as well the most inconvenient generator in the game.

I have a setup of 36 wind generators at the moment which on average output ~50 EU/t. To generate the same EU with water mills, I would have to construct about 230 of them, which would not only be way more expensive, but would required a huge amount of space as well. I rather setup a few more wind generators.

Thanks for the answer. I will double-check my measuring later today and add a signal to the line to check how many pulses I am capturing.

The setup you described for the water mills is actually exactly how I set them up, I was just too lazy to draw the intermediate water layers.

Although I could hook up to 20 Water Mills on a single tin cable line, Batboxes are cheap to produce and provide some nice energy buffer should someone suddenly withdraw big amounts of EU from the central storage unit. In addition they ensure that more than the 0.25 EU a single Water Mill is supposed to produce travel over the line and therefore reduce the loss of EU by a good amount.

Hi,

I am relatively new to IC2 and we (me and friends) are currently exploring through the various (and very fun!) possibilities of IC2, especially the energy generation. During that I encountered a strange oddity about Water Mills. In short: they are not at all generating the EU described as in the Wiki and in combination generate more EU than the sum of each individual one.

My setup is as follows ( =Water, =Tin cable, =Stone block):






:Rubber Trampoline: :Rubber Trampoline:

This is one (horizontal) layer of my water works setup, between each of the (currently) 3 layers there are 2 pure water layers to have the water mills surrounded with the 3x3x3 water cube. Each layer is connected with isolated copper between the Batboxes and the top layer converts using a MV to HV and sends it to the collector. All Batboxes are set to emit power constantly (if available) and the MV-converter is hooked up with a permanent redstone torch.

The issue (each measuring has been done repeatedly to verify the results and at least over 200 ticks):
- Each water mill reports to generate 0 EU/t (as expected from the rounding down). Measured at the tin cable of a single Water Mill.
- A layer reports to generate 1.5 EU/t (but it should generate 1 EU/t). Measured right above the Batbox on the isolated copper wire of the lowest Water Mill layer.
- The entire set of 3 layers report to generate 7.25 EU/t (but it should do 3 EU/t according to the Wiki or 4.5 EU/t according to the layer measurement). Measured right above the last Batbox of the entire set of Water Mill layers.

Now while I do not complain about the extra EUs these generate, I'd really like to know whether this is a bug, an extreme measuring error on my behalf or intended?