CASUC perfect breeder (5 in, 40 out, 5.00 eff)

    http://www.talonfiremage.pwp.b…=1b10101001201521s1r11r19


    Would like comments/suggestions from someone more experienced with breeding. :)


    Now that I'm messing around with CASUC reactors, I quickly realized that feeding them is a challenge!


    The linked design has the external cooling tuned to produce exactly 250 excess heat/s, making it easy to balance bucket input at one every 2s.


    It would be a bit fiddly to get started without blowing yourself up, but once going, it should be stable.
    Redstone the reactor, and add the internals.
    Add 5 lava buckets to bring heat up to 10k. This gives you about 20 seconds to start it up before you risk dropping below 9k with the first bucket, and about 16 seconds before cratering after you start it up to get the first bucket in.
    Alternatively, add 6 buckets to put you at 12k, which means you'd have longer to get the buckets running, then let 4 or 5 cycle through to cool down to 9.5-10k before starting the reactor.


    At least, that's the theory. :)


    Was also thinking you could use pistons that extend into the water flow around the reactor to fine-tune the external cooling on the fly.


    EDIT: schematic download

    Similar concept to my breeder. Theoretically you would actually be able to charge 2 sets of isotopes with this configuration during one cycle (as long as the heat remains above 9k).
    Which is really good, 40 cells charged with only using 5 uranium cells.
    Watch out, Rick will probably say that this is his design *chuckles*.


    Here's mine: http://www.talonfiremage.pwp.b…=1f10101001501521s1r11r19


    Though I'm lazy so the heat-up process is halting the filter that sucks out the empty buckets for 12 seconds after it has heated up to 4k.
    (So I lose a little bit of charging time)


    I like the idea for pistons to adjust the flow of water around the reactor (cos that's the most finicky part of the system) ... though you'd probably need to be running the thermometer add-on for that.


    ... I'm not sure why the planner is saying yours is a positive breeder ...

    Ahkharu, is there a reason you don't configure to have every U cell pulse into four DU cells? It seems to me that you're losing out on quite a few potential breeder pulses for a (relatively) small gain in power output. Not criticizing, just curious.

    Quote from Irontygre

    If you're aiming for 9,000 heat, it's already a babysit breeder, why not go with this internal configuration:


    http://www.talonfiremage.pwp.b…=1a10101001201521s1r11r19


    And run your bucket injector at 1 bucket per second?

    Well, my goal with this was to recharge as many cells as possible in one cycle using the smallest amount of uranium...


    The production reactor itself can recharge 12 cells in once cycle (sacrificing a little over 50% of EU generation to do so) in the following configuration, with no mods to the reactor itself. I think it might even be able to handle 6 cells to 50% during a full production cycle also.
    http://www.talonfiremage.pwp.b…=1010101011201521s1r11r10


    So if I'm going to put in extra uranium anyway, I probably wouldn't bother with a separate breeder...
    But if I can squeeze a little extra efficiency out of it, it might be worth the up front cost.


    Also, pardon my "n00blear" engineering, but why would this be a babysit breeder? (Aside from the fact that the cooling is balanced on a fairly thin edge.) 10k out of 14k heat should be below the turn-things-into-lava threshold, if I'm understanding things correctly.
    EDIT: and filling up the empty spaces with reactor plating would bring that down below the 70% threshold (should only have to worry about evaporation)

    Quote from AkhkharuXul

    Similar concept to my breeder. Theoretically you would actually be able to charge 2 sets of isotopes with this configuration during one cycle (as long as the heat remains above 9k).
    Which is really good, 40 cells charged with only using 5 uranium cells.
    Watch out, Rick will probably say that this is his design *chuckles*.

    2 sets? Does that mean that starting at 6k or 3k I might still get one full set out of them? The planner only shows 100% at 9k starting.


    Might have to look into putting a timer on it, in that case :)

    Ok, so at 9,000 heat, your original design will output 40 cells off of the five inserted (as Akhkharu noted), so you'll have to "babysit" it at the 1/2 cycle point to do a cell-swap to get the most out of it (on top of regulating a 9,000 heat reactor, which is no trivial task).


    The design I suggested will net you 80 cells per run if you do the swaps at the right times. (BTW, I didn't come up with it, I've seen it tossed around in some of the other CASUC breeder posts).


    Basically, you get most breeding efficiency if you have every U cell touching 4 DU cells. Which leads me to the question why Akhkharu didn't set up his reactor with that in mind.

    Quote from Irontygre

    The design I suggested will net you 80 cells per run if you do the swaps at the right times. (BTW, I didn't come up with it, I've seen it tossed around in some of the other CASUC breeder posts).


    Basically, you get most breeding efficiency if you have every U cell touching 4 DU cells. Which leads me to the question why Akhkharu didn't set up his reactor with that in mind.

    Ah... I see. So with the design you posted, you'd have to swap isotope cells touching one U-cell halfway through the cycle, the ones touching two 1/4 way through the cycle, etc.? Basically you get 2x the recharged cells per unit time, but the same per input u-cell (in return for micromanagement).

    In this design: http://www.talonfiremage.pwp.b…=1a10101001201521s1r11r19
    You have isotope cells surrounded by 1, 2, and 3 uranium...
    Meaning you'd have to swap out re-enriched cells at 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 and 3/4 of a cycle (or drastically lose heat in the reactor). so ... 5 swaps, vs 1. [Erg didn't notice the ones surrounded by 4, so add in 1/8, 3/8, 5/8, and 7/8 of a cycle as well, 9 swaps? :P]
    Also, I don't think that the "relatively small" amount of power gain is that small. If you look at the actual uranium cells, it's 1.0 efficiency vs 2.6.


    Like I mentioned, it was laziness factor, since the reactor takes a maximum of 20 seconds to heat my reactor up from 0 heat... I can handle that every what... hour and a half? :P


    Though vs the one from the OP, well, had I thought about that I might have done it. I actually wanted to stuff as many depleted cells into the reactor as I could, and I also wanted 1 bucket/second as the time, given those factors lead me to the design I implemented [# of cell swaps / cycle was also a factor].


    It was also meant to be run in tandem with a 640 EU/t [30 uranium cell] reactor, it produces more then enough for that [48 cells - 10 to breed with gives 8 left-over for any "inefficiency" caused by poor cell-swapping / heat-up times]. Using 1/3 of the uranium cells to produce 1/5 of the energy (of the main reactor) whilst breeding enough cells for both reactors, from 4-6 uranium ore... seemed good enough to me, if I were trying to feed more reactors, I'd worry about having a higher # of bred cells.

    Quote from SpeedDaemon

    Ah... I see. So with the design you posted, you'd have to swap isotope cells touching one U-cell halfway through the cycle, the ones touching two 1/4 way through the cycle, etc.? Basically you get 2x the recharged cells per unit time, but the same per input u-cell (in return for micromanagement).


    Bingo.


    Personally, I plan on running a 4k breeder because it's simple, easy to set up (if you already have a CASUC reactor working), and requires no attention once running. But if you're willing to expend the effort for the micro, the returns are quite sizeable.

    Quote from Irontygre


    Bingo.


    Personally, I plan on running a 4k breeder because it's simple, easy to set up (if you already have a CASUC reactor working), and requires no attention once running. But if you're willing to expend the effort for the micro, the returns are quite sizeable.

    Right, but at 4k heat, you'd have to have 2 uranium cells touching just to breed 1 isotope cell per cycle (and it might not even do that, I know I ran a dry-run like that and only ~1/2 the cells re-enriched, I think the RNG gets involved... though the other cells were fairly close to done) .... Will be interesting to see what you come up with.


    Edit: And before anyone asks why I have reactor plating in mine... http://forum.industrial-craft.…ad&postID=20017#post20017

    Quote

    70% maximum heat: Entities within a 7x7x7 cube will get hurt.

    Lets my reactor run over 10k heat without damaging anything, and if I get hurt by my reactor I know it's too hot and I could manually add a water bucket or two until it drops below the "damage threshold". [Since I don't run the thermometer add-on] Wasn't sure if the evaporating water would cause the reactor to gradually gain heat.

    Prototype is built, and currently running rock steady at 9770 or 10020 heat every time I check with the thermometer...


    I put in a timer to cut the reactor at exactly 5000 seconds, so hopefully I can get exactly two runs out of one set of u-cells...


    We'll find out in another hour or so...

    If a water bucket cooled Mark V is like sleeping in a house made of TNT, running the same reactor at 9000 heat with the bucket feed system set to deliver JUST enough cooling water...is like...Sleeping in a burning house with TNT and nukes under your bed. With a creeper cuddling you.

    Quote from SpeedDaemon

    Prototype is built, and currently running rock steady at 9770 or 10020 heat every time I check with the thermometer...


    I put in a timer to cut the reactor at exactly 5000 seconds, so hopefully I can get exactly two runs out of one set of u-cells...


    We'll find out in another hour or so...

    I had a clever idea on how to stop the reactor perfectly without resorting to crazy timers [cos I was going to use an ~5000s clock as well].
    The new buildcraft 3.0.0 has gates... if there's a re-enriched isotope cell in the chamber, send redstone signal :)
    Should work flawlessly for 9k+ reactors... not so much so for < 9k :P And buildcraft pipes hook up with redpower tubes decently which will work fine for the input side.


    Was about to test it when I had an unexpected explosion which caused massive lag (I thought Buildcraft had a severe leak).
    Though, 3.0.0 is in alpha so, probably a lot of people won't use it til it gets more finalized.

    Quote from BrickedKeyboard

    If a water bucket cooled Mark V is like sleeping in a house made of TNT, running the same reactor at 9000 heat with the bucket feed system set to deliver JUST enough cooling water...is like...Sleeping in a burning house with TNT and nukes under your bed. With a creeper cuddling you.

    Yeah but theoretically it's 3x as safe since you're running a lot less heat/tick and using less uranium? :) Nice analogy though.

    http://www.talonfiremage.pwp.b…=101k101001201521s1r11r19


    Ok, so this requires preheating the cooling components you toss in. They don't need to be exact but they do have to be fairly close. 9250 to 9650 is ideal (it must be that temp when /starting/) up to 9999 for the cooling components will work (as long as your reactor is < 9500).


    It uses only air cooling externally, so no fear of water evaporation. The internal cooling cells are to make up for the loss of external cooling. The IHDs act as buffers to stabilize the reaction between 9000 and 9800 over 2 cycles.


    This design may address the reason I /suspect/ my redstone gated breeder is unstable; actually since the timing is no longer dependent on synchronizing redstone to the reactor it fixes it also, thus making both possible design issues in my current setup vanish.


    The only issue is heating it up; the hull it's self is easy enough, but the cooling components inside are impossible to heat quickly enough. Even stuffing it with IHDs, the IHDs would catch up but the cooling cells to match the missing external cooling would take more time. A single shot startup is not possible.


    I've simulated it with a crude python script and this design does not loose any components over 99999 cycles.


    PS: the 9800 limit is so the reactor doesn't try to hurt the player. Otherwise I could care less as long as the components don't melt.

    Quote from AkhkharuXul

    I had a clever idea on how to stop the reactor perfectly without resorting to crazy timers [cos I was going to use an ~5000s clock as well].
    The new buildcraft 3.0.0 has gates... if there's a re-enriched isotope cell in the chamber, send redstone signal :)
    Should work flawlessly for 9k+ reactors... not so much so for < 9k :P And buildcraft pipes hook up with redpower tubes decently which will work fine for the input side.


    Was about to test it when I had an unexpected explosion which caused massive lag (I thought Buildcraft had a severe leak).
    Though, 3.0.0 is in alpha so, probably a lot of people won't use it til it gets more finalized.

    Well the timer isn't THAT crazy... It's a 100s timer feeding a 50ct counter.


    Regarding your comment above about only 50% or so becoming re-enriched... I just made an interesting discovery.
    I was watching my reactor inventory when my 5000s timer ran out. All 20 DI cells lost their progress bars at exactly the same instant that the reactor shut off (so that part works perfectly).


    However... They didn't become RE U-cells right away. After that point, it appears that there is some random delay before they're "done."


    So, two back to back half-runs should yield 40 RE U-cells, but I might have to take them out and toss them into my production reactor for a few seconds to finish them off (it's a fairly conservative 500EU/t CASUC design, so it can handle a little extra heat easily).


    In any case, for this design, once you start it up, it's hands-off. :) Another (accidental) side effect of this design is that when it's got all the cells in (which generates 20 heat/sec, even when the reactor is off) it's perfectly heat-neutral with the cooling system off, so you don't have to rush with pre-heating. Put 5 buckets of lava in, and it will sit at 10020 heat until you start it up, and get up to about 11020 before the first water bucket gets there. Then just drop two in manually to get it back down to 10k. It also has some pistons that allow it to be configured for 1h/s positive, neutral, or 1 or 3 h/s negative on the fly.


    Edit: Design as run for this test: http://www.talonfiremage.pwp.b…=1b10101001201521s1r11r19
    Also, .schematic link added to OP

    Using Redpower2, instead of buildcraft, why not combine a timer and counter? The timer constantly pulses while the reactor is on, and the counter ticks up/down based on the timer. When it's done you'll need some kind of latch (RS or toggle) that also forces the reactor off. A toggle of either kind might be used to switch from count-up to count-down and reset things again.


    Edit: -much- more data.


    This is the automated warmup timer I'll probably build for my self and my modification of the design later this week/weekend.


    Here is the python2 script I used to calculate the values:
    -- Oops too big I'll carry over in to a new post --


    Here are the values until it stabilizes:

    Here's the python2 script:


    The important part is that I've used values to simulate a redpower2 clock, counter and sequencer.



    warmup_cycles = 46 << counter
    warmup_len = 13 << one sequencer side
    warmup_len2 = 39 << three sequencer sides


    (every other for the bucket, the clock, actually a second clock for filling the water buckets/extracting would be more reliable)




    Quote from MJEvans

    Using Redpower2, instead of buildcraft, why not combine a timer and counter? The timer constantly pulses while the reactor is on, and the counter ticks up/down based on the timer. When it's done you'll need some kind of latch (RS or toggle) that also forces the reactor off. A toggle of either kind might be used to switch from count-up to count-down and reset things again.

    That's exactly what I've been doing :)
    Actually, since my design maintains a constant temp when off, you could use a 1 second timer and a 5,000 counter, and then be able to start and stop the reactor at will without losing your time. (you'd still have to add a bucket or two manually every time you restart, though... might see if I can upgrade the design tonight to be more automatic.)


    Counters' output will stay on once they reach one of their limits, so unless you're decrementing it for some reason, there's no need for a latch.