Base unloaded, bye guys.
Hey, just a heads up: Forester's Backpack will crash you trying to accept items it should not. I've had this crash with warded jars and vanilla flowers, and needed help to be able to log back in.
The server is fine when this happens, it just kicks out the offending player again and again.
Soo, personally I'm going to be throwing that backpack in the recycler. It's fine for chopping trees but even clicking on a flower can start the issue.
EDIT: Probably will be fixed with build #25, so maybe don't recycle, jus' be vewy vewy careful.
Yeah Greg add oil worldgen!
Galacticraft oil gen was really nasty, let's not try it this time. Oilberries are fine for space exploration purposes, perhaps even for boilers with decent spamming. I kinda liked the BC worldgen with big oil deposits up for grabs. Seems like a lot of oil but GC actually placed more per chunk. No ideas on what to actually do though. I'd say leave oil gen off.
Welp, TC vote seems to be settled, shouldn't have called attention to the fact that it was going the other way at some point.
I guess it will be fun. Played with it a bit in that SSP skyblock challenge I'm wasting my time in lately. Not changing my vote but hey, if Greg says it's ok I'm in.
By the way, infusion enchanting... what do we think about that? Book-only enchants seem pretty nasty if we're going to have TC. I'm all for nasty but I'm not even sure the TC enchants even generate as dungeon loot. Perhaps leave it as the only way to enchant? Kinda like the coke oven charcoal. What do you guys think?
Bought a headset, will be on mumble once we get going.
I agree with MrMoo, +1 for gravity, -1 for Expanded Redstone. Between GT and PRed's wires our redstone is well expanded already.
Also, just to chime in on the (probably already settled) water tank issue: GT drains already produce water passively in the rain and their recipe is pretty early game, water tanks are fine, sugarcane still has a place in water production as a large scale solution, as it can be significantly faster per block than tanks.
i.e. my 9 chunk base could not sustain D-T fusion even if i made the roof all RC water tanks. imo infinite water is not meant to really make water scarce - just to open up all those other options and make water sources in the world more manageable.
Oh and if cactus floats your boat, forestry has a recipe for that. Wouldn't want to squeeze them with your bare hands, would you?
Awww MrMoo, your base screens made me jelly, will post some too as soon as I manage to stop playing SSP skyblock Hardcore Quest.
UNG actually got my base's exterior on yt and aaalmost took the minecart to the chromium rod too, heh if he had I wouldn't bother posting any myself. Happy with the reactions, lol, he sees it on the minimap and says "Issa BIG BASE!" xD
+1 for FFA dimension(s). I suppose Moon can be civil and Mars FFA, although I wouldn't mind if they were both PvP. Nether is also a fine candidate, to make it a bit interesting for those who think lava is some kind of fuel.
Hm I hadn't seen qCraft... intriguing, but maybe a bit ambitious. Says on that page that it won't work if the servers are running different mods - Though I guess maybe we could get around that by having them all installed but some disabled. Also no 1.7 version but it's not like it's the only thing we're waiting for anyway.
I'd say +1 for it, but I think if a side server is to be set up, it may be worth considering just logging in there normally and running it completely independently. And even if it's not, no reason to restrict login to the main one - would be awkward if you really had to log out while on a side server, or even if you were planning to main there.
Regarding starting with TC as a test and the possibility of removing it, I think it's not such a good idea. It has a ton of worldgen, from ores, to biomes, to patches of taint, which would leave ugly holes both underground and on the surface. Also after a while we'll all have invested a ton of time on it - A vote for removing it then probably won't pass if the lag is not crippling and even if it just has to be removed it will be a huge bummer.
And just imagine if you had built a huge box out of warded stone to contain nuclear blasts... So my opinion on this is that we should decide beforehand - Either not have it at all or (if the vote somehow swings pro-TC) well, just eat it until 1.8 is out.
Did I say that? Oh yes I diiid! 14 for - 13+2 against. Yeah Science!
Muahaha! I got them running scared! They call me BadAlchemy cause when alchemy is bad I say BAD ALCHEMY and I SMACK IT over the head!
BA finds a crucible in CrafterOMany's base for alchemy. BA, doing the proper thing, puts a single block of TNT immediately adjacent to it (or on top of, if the TNT would fall when activated), lights it, and carries on with his day.
I refuse to do the proper thing!
BA finds my base, a large box of warder stone, glass and doors. He sets up a nuke. It's not very effective...
I'm not a narc, u guys. Couldn't care less what you build in your base.
But I do have to agree with SpwnX that you can't really keep someone out with warded stone... Perhaps it'd keep that nuke from damaging the surrounding landscape by keeping the blast inside, though, so a worthwhile investment.
When it comes to having some sort of alchemy in the game, between the extractor, centrifuge, electrolyzer and chemical reactor I think we have all the tools we need. You can even build a functioning Meth(ane) lab!
Anyway, my thoughts on the justice by angry mob thing are if we're going to have TC let's just have it without trying to regulate player behavior. On the practical side of the it, every time someone griefs someone else while "doing the proper thing", an admin would need to get involved to find out if that really was the case. And even if someone had the time and inclination for that, it would mean a blocklogging mod would have to be installed.
On the admin only mystcraft idea, I have seen it work very nicely on a server I was playing back in 1.4 for implementing mining worlds. However they had trouble with banning certain items from certain dimensions, and they had mcpc+ too, so more administrative tools than we do (at least on the current server). And if we're relying on portals stripping items, well, you can teleport items a bunch of ways, or even link your AE system itself.
Overall, I think that even if it can be made to work, it's overcomplicated. If your intention is to really strip inventories and keep the mods exclusive to each dimension, a side server would be a much tidier way to do it. I don't even see the reason invultri should be the one to host it.
Regarding the reasons for doing it, what's the point of having those two mods together if not building setups that involve both?
I'm also not too fond of adding a new dimensions, whether it is for mining or playing with TC. The overworld is an extremely large place as it is, and it being the only place makes us develop it.
Also Spwn... lol did u just say "If you don't want TC, just don't use it."? I had only heard that argument used to defend very horrible mods, like extra bees. Personally if we end up having it I'll be exploiting any cross mod imbalance however I can. The fun part starts when you completely devalue a resource then start selling it to everyone dirt cheap.
When one is deciding a server's mod pack, things can be "unbalancing", even "OP". As soon as you get to play on it, balance is what it is, and "OP" turns into "very effective/mandatory to use". Even if you set little rules for yourself, the server's economy is shaped by what is possible, not what machines you have in your base. Except in SSP I guess, or a really lonely server.
Okay I forgot including BadAlchemy into the List of forbidden Magic XD
Hihi, this rule sounds more reasonable, I'd be happy to be "the most dangerous game" for anyone to hunt on the server. Would that mean I get free PvP/raiding against everyone? I'll mostly come at night... mostly xD
Some people do, including me.
Remember that Thaumcraft loses its big usefulness after the bronze age, since most of the other cheaty stuff is covered by other things (Native Clusters might be cheaper then a macerator, but they will not get you the byproducts that you need to progress), or is very limited in flexibility (Golems, unless upgraded, are very limited in function).
Now I have no idea what you mean by "cheaty stuff", probably nothing, but TC definitely doesn't lose its usefulness after the bronze age (a.k.a. someone's first 2 days on the server). Ore doubling was never the real issue - it's just one of the points where the mods overlap.
An Axe of the Stream, on the other hand, will trump even the endgame advanced saw and trivialize chopping wood, making tree farms kind of redundant. A Sword of the Zephyr will beat a super expensive nano saber hands down when it comes to PvE.
Also Golems (of course upgraded, why wouldn't they be), cover whole areas performing high level tasks such as harvesting and replanting, usually needing nothing more than a dropoff point to setup. Limited in flexibility, perhaps. Way more flexible, simple and cheap than anything we had, definitely.
[...] with TC you need one item to get started (thaumometer), and by nerfing that you fix progression.
The issue is when is TC coming and who wants it.
"Progression" was not broken to need fixing: Progression is what you'll end up doing taking into account the installed mods. i.e.
- find unrelated goodies somebody wants,
- buy thaumometer,
- Play TC and worry about GT only after 4 weeks on the server
is a fine progression. It's an open ended game anyway.
But anyway we kinda agree on that final point... the issue is if we want it and whether we care when it comes out.
Jus' saying though, no matter how many blocks of iridium we add to the Thaumometer recipe, a rig where 10 alvearies drop their stuff on the floor and a Golem collects it is always going to be cheaper and less technical than rigging the setup with pipes. Laggier too, but I leave that consideration to the man who keeps the server up.
Buut guys... Science! Isn't it awesome digging and finding real things in the ground, such as cassiterite and the occasional cooperite instead of fire, wind, water, earth and um... heart shards? Wondering what to do with a Palladium Ring instead of Researching our Taint?
If we're keeping TC, I'm +1 for EE3. Just kidding, of course. WTF
On a more serious note: I hereby pledge to help anyone (I don't actively dislike :P) cut through any tech tree if they can trade something I want (hint hint, I always want lapis, redstone and uranium ore). Honor system? Pah!
There is game to be had in building creative rigs and infrastructure, as well as working with other people. And that's where things get way more interesting that predefined tech trees. It's not that it's hard to uphold the mods' tech trees in SMP: It's that they are not something to be upheld.
Sure, the "Technomage" may progress in both trees, but having TC surely there's room for "Mageomages" that buy all their industrial goods and rent fusion reactors to spam nodes (with that preposterous, half baked node idea). In fact, pushing TC too far up the GT tech tree will only serve to ensure that the main means of getting TC gear will be trading and gifts.
The "Technotech" or whatever Linus is planning to be, will of course be shafted, the products of his labors devalued by the existence of the magic shop down the road.
Hehe Invultri we actually agree on GC recipes being changed, albeit for different reasons: GC has a very simple 2 tier tech tree that wasn't by any means inspired to begin with.
TC on the other hand is quite well made, a product of 3 previous iterations on the concept, and (no offence, but especially after reading the specific ideas) I wouldn't trust you guys to tweak it.
Plus, pretty much as you said, we had ways of producing all but a couple of its required materials already and it doesn't really produce anything. So it was not a case of trying to keep it from shifting the balance of our gameplay, but simply slotting it in.
There is already a mechanic to alter bee genetics in forestry: Breeding. It can lead you to building complex, large scale systems in order to get the genetic traits you want. It may be tempting to substitute the intelligence one would need for the task for a measly 100M EU and an Iridium block, but whatever the cost it removes a complex feature for a simplistic one.
Bees are already way easier and cheaper to automate than crops. And what does adventure mode have to do with it? It does not affect bees at all.
And no, we want no platinum or apatite bees. There are a precious few things that you can't get a steady stream of without digging, and those are the only things that keep having value in the late game.
@Side server idea:
Now it really comes to invultri's vision and resources, but I don't see any reason for this server (or community) to be the total one-stop MC experience for anyone - I'd love to see a few different mod sets, and a bunch of them wouldn't even be that heavy to begin with: I.e. DivineRPG, Pixelmon, BtW could be fun distractions. A PvP server would be fun too.
I would say some magic pack including TC could fit that idea, but I'm pretty sure a TC server would be heavier than the GT one. Personally at some point I plan to go play on one with all the new casual mods like RotaryCraft and EnderIO and whatnot for a couple of weeks AND I'm happy that this server has nothing to do with them.
In any case though, if the reason for wanting TC was to have a break from the GT progression, I see no reason to have that break on Kirara itself. The main appeal of the server for me has been that there was no break from it: Everything you saw anyone achieve on the previous server has been on GT alone.
Anywayz, I'm being forced to go celebrate my birthday, later.
Don't want to argue with all of this,
Haha, my quote being in your post says otherwise!
just want to say that I thought the last server was based on having one tech tree, and we'd have to change thaumcraft around a bit to suit that (not a lot, just a tiny bit). And it isn't conflicting tech trees if we adjust the tech tree of Thaumcraft, as they'll be non-conflicting then
A tiny bit huh? Now I'm reassured.
How do you imagine the "one tech tree" when both mods have a huge area of overlap?
All I've seen proposed is increasing costs for building stuff... steel (3-4 hours of looking for dungeons right after spawning) and stainless (2-3 days of gt progress). So after you pay those initial costs you have access to TC machines, replacing a bunch of GT stuff as the cheapest way to do something.
The issue is not what the TC items cost. It's what they do. They mine and smelt with vis from the world instead of EU that we would need to produce, they move items with pathfinding entities instead of pipes and so on.
It's not about having "one" tech tree. It's about having the GT/IC2 tech tree. And to do that you would need to disable half of TC.
And why break TC? Add it onto a pack with Ars Magica, Xeno's, Magic Bees, Thaumic Whachamacallit and idk, Thermal Expansion, and enjoy it as Azanor intended.
Aww poor MrMoo, if I'd seen the next posts after yours before I started typing I would be harvesting hemp in BtW instead of pummeling u
-1 for a portal mod. 2 kinds of Teleporters are enough.
-1 for microblocks. We have cf that can look like anything with the obscurator. Plus GT covers. Plus a couple useless decorative mods already.
I'm repeating myself, but maybe after all this balancing talk some points may be more obvious: Do we really need TC?
Sure, it offers a few fancy tools, but they will have all the niceness drained out of them due to lack of enchanting tables. Apart from those it's a whole tech tree of its own that covers stuff we can already do with the tech mods, in flashier and heavier ways.
More importantly, its worldgen and node mechanics make it impossible to ignore if someone wishes to do so, radically altering the gameplay experience.
Now if we're keeping it, I really don't think you can hope to balance it by introducing a couple of choke points, making wands require GT stuff. Should the crop harvesting golems also require cobalt and stainless to be on par with the GT crop harvestors? How about the magic mirror skirting the EU requirements for tesseracting items? Currently you can feed it boats (or even easier, enderpearls).
My opinion is, if we're having it, keep it as it is. To be really balanced it would need adjustments to its running and not its entry costs. Shops are going to make entry tech tiers irrelevant and requiring industrial alloys to do magic makes no sense anyway. It's SMP: tech hurdles only really delay the first player to reach a tier.
There is no point in adding the mod and then trying to impose the balance as it was without it. The new balance will be the combination of the two tech trees: Stick with TC smelting and you'll find yourself without byproducts. Your tungstensteel tools are too expensive for what they do compared to the TC ones? Well boo hoo, they were meant for a different set of mods. I call this having conflicting mods, but I hear elsewhere they call it Ef Tee Bee.
What is to be considered is not how you go about getting the tech, but how your base and gameplay will look like in your mid- and late game - A purely industrial approach vs. one with golems doing the job of machine rigs and essence farms creating stuff through transmutation.
Don't get me wrong, I like TC. It's indeed very techy for a magical mod and could very well be the backbone of a more casual server. But for this one it will make things dead easy.
I know we voted but populism does not a good server make - and it wasn't voting that made the previous one successful. In my opinion what made it good was a coherent vision, without conflicting tech trees trying to achieve the same goals.
Aaaanyway, just stopped by to be a buzzkill, back to playing SSP BtW and enjoying terrain affecting move speed :p
Wow I just checked out what Chisel is and I like it way more than carpenter's blocks. If it's worldgen can be turned off and have it use something from oredict I think that having craftable block variations is much better than making fake blocks.
Also, just to be as obnoxious as the situation warrants , everyone vote NO for TC4, it has no place here. Proof? Almost everyone who wants it hasn't been seen on the server for a long long time.
AAAI Suk UR AURA! Let's take Wands of Excavation and Wisp our Taints! How is that techy? Mine Little Pony is an industrial mod disguised as an um... whatever that is. Also no place here.
lol the platform that Ishi burnt down? cheers
Hai everyone, will be joining u guys shortly. My IGN is BadAlchemy.
O FireLion, judging by the timing of you having trouble with setting up your pack (and assuming you figured the rest out), you may be missing the correct version of gregtech. 405m, that the server is running, is no longer available. So i'd say wait for the next server update - That's what I'm doing anyway.
Anyway, hey, Yay! See you guys in there.
wow lol gee... sooo are we gonna wait for it or revert?
Edit: Lol retep.. if it's 2k blocks not even _my_ machines will have survived
There's a link for the forge libraries on their EAQ post on the Forge site.
Also I don't think ic2 219 will work, and saw a report on the GT thread that 216 will not either. I managed to get my client running with 215.
I'm BadAlchemy on the server btw, playing co-op with invultri. o/
I was looking for a place to say hi somewhere on this forum and then I stumbled upon this awesome thread! So here goes:
I, for one, find the jokes on the wiki to be awesome and don't see any point in lightning rods.
Cool mod - I've been using it since I started a new SSP world when 1.4.6 came out and I don't think I can live without my gravichestplate anymore! Am I here to tell you how cool your mod is? Sure, why not. But mainly I wanted to mention a couple of issues.
While I was trying to craft the Magnetron for the Vajra core, the recipe would only accept IC2 copper. But with GregTech all recipes output RedPower copper instead. Could you possibly make it use the forge ore dictionary?
Oh, while I'm on that, there was some discussion on the GT thread a while back about making the superconductors interchangeable. Maybe it would be a cool idea if you registered those with the forge dict as well. I think their costs are roughly equivalent anyway.
Also the Advanced Chainsaw doesn't work properly on IC2 crop blocks.
"Vajra"... really cool choice of name, by the way.
Combining 2 small piles of iron dusts from Ferrus I get the old iron dust without the "Fe" tooltip.
EDIT: I'd love to see the dust mode in your craftingtables handle those dusts as well.
I can't seem to get the seed scanner on the computercube to work... it just passes the seeds to its other slot like they were regular items, and my console at the time says this:
[INFO] [STDERR] java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: ic2.common.ItemCropSeed
Encountered it first with a week-old version of yours and IC2 112.170.lf, and it's still there with IC2 .192 and your current version.
Oh, and an idea! Synthesized meat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat. And Leather... or just leather