Posts by HeadHunter67

Quote from DoomFruit

The only solution after that was transformers (batboxes are *expensive*)

Comparatively, a batbox is not much different in terms of expense than a pair of LVTs.

Transformers: 8 planks, 6 copper, 4 cables, 1 redstone torch
Batbox: 5 planks, 12 tin, 4 cables, 6 redstone.

If tin and resdtone are that much harder for you to find, you're probably not at the point where you need this kind of power generation. Keep in mind that if you can afford to build an MFSU (10 diamonds, 38 lapis, 110 redstone, 2 glowstone, 32 iron, 82 rubber, 42 copper, 4 tin, 16 coal)... you probably don't consider a few redtone and a half-dozen tin to be "expensive".

Quote from Saul_Goode

I don't even know where you are going with this... A mod to convert from RP2 to IC2 is going to have to rely on BOTH Eloraams' code AND Alblakas' code. AND Mojangs' code... You seem to conveniently forget that RedPower relies on Mojangs' code. ...please don't bring legality and her license back into this point. One focus at a time, please.

It's abundantly clear that you can't see where I'm going with this - because you're "focusing" on the wrong aspect of it.
I'm not talking about legality and license. I'm talking about originality.

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Own thing instead? Maybe it would be easier for this to happen if they were given a chance to learn and get better? Look at what SirSengir and Krapht have done building off of someone elses' work.

One needn't be a copycat to improve one's skills and technique. And you can hardly compare Immibis' derivative work to what Forestry and especially Logistics Pipes have introduced.
Although Forestry is best used with BuildCraft, it can stand on its own, unlike a power converter that relies on two mods to be of any use.
Krapht's stuff is probably the most original and useful add-on in the history of tech mods. It needs BuildCraft but it's completely original and very elegant.
They're great add-ons, and poorly chosen examples to try and defend your point.

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If Eloraam was a little less restrictive, and would allow others' a little more freedom then maybe she could get more of the heavy-lifting done.

Perhaps that's true - but it wouldn't be done her way. Whether you like that or not, that's been the driving force behind her creative vision from the beginning.
She's trying to make the mod that she wants to play. If you like what she's doing, great. If not, then RedPower's not for you, I guess.
But what she's not willing to do is to compromise what she wants to deliver more of what you want. When other types of artists make that compromise, we accuse them of "selling out".

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Maybe she could finally get around to the changes ChickenBones needs implemented so that he can update his wireless redstone past 1.8.1. Instead she insists on doing everything herself, her own way. Thereby hindering other developers, thereby hindering the community as a whole (at least the part of the community that uses those mods).

Immibis' add-on didn't free up time she could have used to add those Forge hooks - but you can be sure that the time she had to spend defending her work could have been used in that fashion.
So I counter that Immibis unauthorized release actually hindered the chance of her completing what ChickenBones needs.

I'm eagerly awaiting BOTH add-ons. I used PowerConverters and the BC-IC Crossover in my 1.0 and 1.81 builds. When used together, they fully integrated the power systems of two of the fundamental mods I use.

Quote from Kane Hart

Oh Jesus Christ... But that would take 10 seconds! Maybe 15 if they needed to login

I hope you're being sarcastic - because the alternative is that you suffer from a complete lack of perspective.

I didn't log in for 10 days over the holidays - and it's not because I was out having a good time or was away from the computer. There are simply many things in life far more important than Minecraft.
May your life always be so easy and trouble-free that you have time to spare for such frivolous pursuits.

Quote from Ldog

What MJEvans and you were discussing with the transformers. Don't you have to use gold cable with 128 EU packets?
Or was he just saying to replace all the batboxes in your setup with them? I guess I'm a bit confused.

The three boxes along the centerline (next to the ladder) are the only transformers I use. I think MJEvans' idea was to put two LVTs face-to-face, so that it setps the 32 up to 128 and then distributes it as 4 packets of 32 out the other end. I have my doubts as to how useful or economical that is, and I like having the buffer on each mill.

Glad you were able to get it set up and I'm pleased to hear that it's working well for you!

You can rest assured that if someone's not on the forum reassuring people, they are probably off doing something more important than a game.
Life happens. It would be nice if they have a moment to say so, sure - but if any of these missing add-on developers are going through anything like the last few months have been for me, I can see why giving a status report here is a non-priority.

Nothing is stopping anyone from doing the ONE thing that would actually address any of these complaints:

Make a mod that does what you want it to, from scratch, without relying on someone else's code.

It's essentially how RedPower started, and part of the reason people got behind the concept of the Forge API.

There's all this talk of Eloraam allegedly suppressing competition, but there's no actual competition coming out of this discussion - merely people who want to use Eloraam's code to make "their own" add-on.

Why aren't we seeing people doing their own thing, instead?

Quote from Ldog

For everyone hating on EE (and I agree it could use more balance, conversions should involve loss) try playing with just EE.

I don't hate EE. In fact I used it in my 1.81 and 1.0 builds. But I don't think it's fair to say that making diamonds in IC2 is anywhere near as easy as making them in EE, in terms of neither time nor material.

Quote from Ldog

Well wouldn't the problem with doing that be that you can't run gold more than 2 meters without losing power?

Why would you use gold wire? Copper works just fine on my layout with no loss.

Quote from Kane Hart

The darn thing is to many people get bored with these mods too fast and move on

I guess I must have missed the part where releasing an add-on carried with it the committment to support it ad infinitum...

Quote from Saul_Goode

If it's not about competition then why can there be ONLY one Blu<>EU converter (hers)?

Because it's HER mod and HER prerogative. She doesn't need to justify or explain her decision.

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why is it OK for someone to do something she's not planning and it's not OK to do something she is planning?

The answer is already in the question. Why would or should she let someone do that?

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Having a license is fine if you need to protect your work, Eloraam didn't need to protect her work here.

Considering that someone decompiled her code and released an unauthorized add-on without her knowledge or consent, I'd say she does need to protect her work after all.

Don't be angry at Eloraam for not letting people copy the answers off her test paper. If you don't want other people deciding what you can and can't release, the answer is simple - do your own thing. Don't base your work off someone else's.

I'll observe that Immibis strikes me as the sort of person who does as he pleases unless there's something to explicitly prohibit it.
I recall seeing something here wehre he bumped a post and outright stated that he was doing so because there was nothing that said he wasn't allowed to. So it seems to me that he acted not only with disregard, but with a lack of conscience. It's easy to think his motives were well-intended if you only ever visit the IC forums - but if you saw his responses on the RedPower thread, anyone would wonder why he didn't simply apologize and let the matter drop.

I'm not sure where people get this image of Eloraam as some egotisitical indivdual with an attitude - anyone who's frequented the RedPower thread would know that she's the model of grace, tact, and decorum. She doesn't even put down her critics. So, as always, this tells me thqt the people who have a problem with her are the ones whose own attidue needs a check.

Regardless of anyone's personal opinion, it all boils down to one simple thing: Mothing gives anyone the "right" to make an add-on when the author has explicitly prohibited it. It doesn't matter if other developers allow it - Eloraam doesn't have to do the same, regardless of her reasons.

And honestly, she's done far more for the Minecraft community (and even the IndustrialCraft community) than any of the people who are pointing fingers at her.

F4113nb34st had done something similar in his Advanced Miners mod for 1.23... it has not been updated since, sadly.

I'd love to once more be able to use miners that could hold a lapotron crystal.

I'd like that - at least zombies are slightly useful. Villagers just get in the way and look ridiculous.

Quote from Ldog

What does deeply concern me is the fact that someone who is so self-serving has control of the Forge.

Consider that the alleged "self-serving" individual is one of the driving forces behind Forge in the first place - without which, you wouldn't enjoy the level of cross-compatiblility that allows you to use these mods in conjunction with one another.

"Forge" and "self-serving" are mutually exclusive. She doesn't have to do anything to make her mod play well with others - but instead, she not only makes sure an API exists for that, but also that other developers are able to use it to make their mods work with each other.

Seems to me that the "selfish" attitude here is the lack of gratitude for what she's done for modding in general.

Quote from Saul_Goode

I secretly hope that maybe my protest post will be the one that makes someone say, 'Ya know... I like Eloraam. I like the work she does. But she needs a check.' Maybe one of these times someone will decide that Eloraam has done similar enough times and decide to do something about it.

That's a pipe dream, because no one can make her do anythign with her mod that she doesn't want to do.
Force her to share (not that anyone has the right to) and she'll just stop developing altogether. Would that help anyone in any way?

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Again- the abortive 1.1 attempt really does not compare here. Why keep bringing it up?

Because it is a perfect example of Alblaka asserting his right to determine how his content may be used. It compares perfectly, because what we're really talking about is each developer's right to share or protect their content as they see fit.

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Please don't start with the 'You don't pay attention to enough sources for your info' crap again, went through that already. Thanks.

The fact of the matter is, all you know of this issue is what you've read here. You're clearly not familiar with the working relationship between the Forrge developers, nor Eloraaam's development of her mod or any other side of the story but what you see through this one narrow window. Like it or not, that's not the big picture.

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(5) - Honestly I've not looked at her license agreement, and I'm not willing to at this instant. But as far as I'm concerned- You cannot place restrictions on your work prohibiting others from doing to yours what you did to create yours. It's how the game works. She decompiled Minecraft to allow her to create her mod to function as she pleases, placing restrictions on others for what she has done makes her a hypocrite. It's how it is. She modded Minecraft. immibis modded RP2. Turnabout is fair play mothereffer.

OK, I'll say this again (and as many times as it takes you to comprehend it:

* Mojang permits people to make mods based on their code. Eloraam's mod is acting in accordance with the license of the code she is modding.
*Eloraam does not permit her code to be decompiled for mods. She is within her legal and creative rights to do so.

You may feel that she cannot place such restrictions, but your belief doesn't modify the reality of a creator's rights. Just because Mojang chooses to share doesn't mean Eloraam is obligated to.

If you want to talk about hypocrisy, it's advocating someone's right to do as they wish but denying Eloraam the right to do the same with her code. This isn't "turnabout", and your attitude shows a marked lack of respect for the person without whom Immibis would have nothing to try and mod in the first place.

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And my point, HeadHunter, since you insist on being difficult- Is that this is one of those times that she should have allowed it

I'm not "being difficult", but I wondered how long until you'd try and make this discussion about me. What's "difficult" is trying to get you to understand that she has the right to do as she pleases with what she's created, and no one has the right to take that from her.

You may feel like she "should have allowed it", but it may come as a shock to discover that she's probably never heard of you and honestly doesn't consider your opinion in her development plans. Honestly, I wouldn't have minded seeing it as well (though it could have been better implemented) - but she exercised her right to defend her license and I respect and support her decision as much as Alblaka does.

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Why can't you grasp the concept of Eloraam keeping people from doing to her code what she does to Mojang's code is over-reaching in this case.

Why can't you grasp that it's not the same? What she did was explicitly permitted by Mojang's license- what Immibis did was explicilty not permitted by hers.

It's not about whether it "would have been nice" - it's about respecting her rights as a creator of content. She has the right to share or withhold as she pleases, to permit or deny specific uses, and to restrict distribution of add-ons based off her code. As Immibis admitted that he had to decompile her code to make his add-on, she is entitled to prohibit the add-on.

If you still have a problem with this, the person with whom you should be discussing it... is Eloraam. Pontificating to us will get you nowhere. If you're seeking change, take it to the source.

Naming them might be a pain... so how about painting them?
Either with a particular dye as part of the recipe (perhaps easiest) or with the paint roller or something.

Oh, you tease!

That sounds like a pretty cool expansion. I'm not the sort who does PvP in Minecraft (not when there are so many better games for that kind of thing), but I'll tell you, I'd love to kill a creeper with a shoulder-fired rocket some day!
Payback's a bitch, you green bastard!

If you look in the upper left corner of the screen just before the video ends, you will see a HUGE red mushroom. So I'd say it has a significant effect!

Quote from Saul_Goode

Not her work. immibis's work that hooks into her work. Into Alblaka's work. Same way her work hooks into Mojang's work.

Immibis' code is useless without Eloraam's code. He's even explicitly admittied that he had to decompile her code to make it.
The difference between modding her work and modding Mojang's, is that Mojang gives permission to do so. Alblaka has prohibited certain uses of his code - look no further than the abortive "1.1 update" someone tried to release the other day.

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Version control and consistency? How does that apply to Eloraam requesting the takedown of a sub-mod that will one day be made obsolete by the mod itself?

I've already explained that. It's one thing to make an add-on that may be depreciated by an official development - it's another thing to make a mod that one knows will be obsoleted soon enough. Eloraam has already stated that she intends to implement BT<->EU transfer in the near future, and anything she hasn't said on the matter is due to confidentaility between her and Alblaka.

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maybe she has talked to Alblaka, maybe she hasn't... Not sure it would stop her if he did object.

There's no "maybe" - she's worked closely with him on things. It would appear that you get all of your infomation merely from this forum, and from no other source. If you read their blogs and her thread on the MC forums, you would have a more complete picture of how they work together.

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And when Eloraam gets around to it if her 'ideas' about conversion are indeed the best implementation of the concept then her method will prevail and make the immibis's mod obsolete. Before that it sets the bar that she will have to beat.

The whole truth of the point is, it's HER bar Immibis is using! And I doubt that "melon batteries" are going to be the better implementation, honestly. Or that people will prefer to use an add-on that doesn't permit you to use HD textures.

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It's not her code, RP2 is her code. immibis's converter is his code. His does nothing to her's that her's does not do to Mojang's.

... Except for the all-important "decompiles in violation of the license".

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And presumably will do to Alblaka's once she gets to making her own energy conversion idea's more of a reality.

...except for the "with permission of the other developer".

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This is about Eloraam doing everything she can to keep other people from essentially the same thing she does with Mojang's code.

Eloraam isn't stopping anyone from doing what she does with Mojang's code - she uses Mojang's code in accordance with the license and with Mojang's permission.
Immibis cannot say the same - he decompiled her code in violation of her license, without her permission, and without even her knowledge. There's no comparison.

I think that even Alblaka will agree that it is important to respect the wishes of his fellow developers, so don't lean too heavily on his praise for your method.