Posts by Cadde

    The only ore you'd be missing right now in a 1.0 world is uranium. If you're running RedPower or Forestry, you've got the tin and copper. If not, you're likely not playing in 1.0 at all yet.


    The issue with using just ONE ore gen is it has the same effect as installing Forestry, RP2 and IC2 and disabling Copper and Tin generation on two of those mods. You only get enough copper and tin to meet demands for one mod.
    I have disabled the generation of copper and tin because i am using my own ore generation code and as such only want ONE source of those ores. Further more, RP2's copper/tin is not the same block ID as IC2's copper/tin and you suddenly have 2 stacks of say copper that you cannot merge in your inventory. It's pretty hard to tell which blocks belong to which mod but once you are able to tell them apart you are constantly thinking "this is an RP2 ore, this is an IC2 ore... Which should i mine now and which should i leave for later to save inventory space?"

    Well, to answer the question. Yes, it is possible to add the ores in advance and no, you don't need oredict for them unless you intend to macerate them into dusts before they have a use. If you are to simply store the blocks somewhere until the appropriate mods are added then all is good.
    Problem is though that you need to generate the exact ores you need. For example, ID 247 for uranium. And if those id's where to change then your map would be useless.
    And even harder is generating RP2 ores since they share the same ID and you have to attach meta data to those blocks. I am not familiar with those so i can't help you there.


    When you install the appropriate mods you (obviously) remove the placeholder mod. All the blocks that belonged to the placeholder mod is now valid for the mod you intended to use.


    EDIT:


    On a side note, it is also technically possible to generate the ores AFTER a map has been generated. Simply making a replacer mod or application that takes all generated chunks and starts generating ores in them (Ores are created by replacing smooth stone with the appropriate ore in MC FYI)
    OFC, this means any building made out of smooth stone is subject to this ore generation. As such, your smooth stone castle will suddenly have all kinds of ores in it's walls.


    (I wonder if it would be possible to make luminators project an *air-like* block that you can walk through, but gives off 15 light. specifically, project one of them in all six directions, skipping one block, which must be air or a transparent block, as a hackish method of extending the light)


    Damn, you beat me to it!


    Pseudo-Air blocks are a bad idea. Minecrafts code isnt meant to handle anything but ID 0 as air.


    What about reeds, flowers, saplings, tall grass etc etc... Torches? You can walk through them.
    Wouldn't it be possible to make a light emitting block that is removed when the luminator is removed.
    That is added once where there is air blocks to replace.
    That has no texture and cannot be removed by clicking on it and IS removed by placing a block over it.


    Sure, if possible and you accidentally place a block over it you get weird results. Maybe make the luminator re-create these light blocks every once in a while if there is room for them?
    If it is impossible without altering the base classes then bug Eloraam about it so she can add it to Forge. Eloraam is already going to mess with the lighting engine to make her sub blocks block light which they don't do currently.


    Hey, look who just rode in! Ir's the One T-Rick Pony! :rolleyes:


    When he doesn't understand what someone's trying to say, he'll drag it into every thread he can! "Look at ME!" shouts the One T-Rick Pony.
    What's the matter, did you get lonely because no one wanted to discuss the issue any longer?


    Let's hear three cheers for the Sore Winner!


    Why don't you simply ignore him? You seem to have a level head when you can make a (somewhat valid) point but when you have nothing to say you say just about anything. Childish...

    Just some things that bothered me here...


    First off, a radius of 100 (if using a sphere) means you get 4,188,790 blocks... I doubt ANYONE want's their MC to check for water in such a large area!
    If that radius is used in a traditional Minecraft way then that's 8,000,000 blocks... Yeah, have fun placing those tidal generators! Wait for up to 10 minutes for each placement.
    Even if you actually meant 100x100x100 it's still 523,598 blocks (in a sphere) and 1,000,000 in a cube which still is FAR too much and then solar power would no longer be the top lag inducing generator.


    I see your point with the idea but you need to stick to reasonable numbers. Even a 5x5x5 cube (125 blocks) is quite costly if it needs to check those blocks repeatedly. Which it does since MC doesn't have (AFAIK) a way to subscribe to a block and even if you can subscribe, just consider the impacts involved if anything changes within that area. Reactors have a 5x5x5 cube for evaporating water, that is easy since it merely does a search and replace when the temperature is greater than the threshold. And reactors have a 3x3x3 cube for external air/water cooling which is a total of 27 blocks. (far cheaper than 125)


    OK, enough about that since it was just an arbitrary number but that number was so large it makes me question the whole post...


    Secondly, if you buff everything BUT the solar panels then you might as well save you the trouble and simply nerf the solar panels...


    ...


    And about solar panel nerfs just making people build more of them on servers... That is true to some extent. You see, people balance resources for setup against the effectiveness of the solution and at a certain point they are going to be using solar power for the applications it's most suited for. If a solar panel is powerful enough to power some street lighting then they will be used for that. If they are powerful enough to charge a few batteries they will be used for that. It's when they are powerful enough to run X number of macerators, furnaces, compressors and even mass fabricators that they become OP and problematic for servers.


    There simply isn't enough diversity in machinery and generators to make solar fit in nicely. And further more, a solar park shouldn't be made up of that many cables and stuff as it bogs the game down, both SSP and SMP. Why not simply make them like a machine. Place the core and feed it with panels (an item, not a block) and the core extends itself depending on available space and number of resources available (up to 64x64 tiles wide) and when it is fully extended it will generate, for example, 60 EU/t or somewhere in that region.
    Then it's a single block that does ONE calculation and sends the power down a single cable. Lag issue solved.
    The extension is merely a single model that scales up with a tiled texture that is drawn in a single call. (The way spacetoads quarries are drawn)

    Yeah, it's hard to get around the feeling that something is very much like cheating. I try to remember all the time/mental energy I had to spend to create the ridiculous Reinforced Stone production facility when I design a 6 meter thick reactor chamber just for testing ideas!


    I think I'll hold off on helping you test for the time being... I'm not looking to start up a new world until IC is in 1.0 and it really sounds like that's exactly what I'd want to do to really be of any help. That and I don't think I can handle any more chunk loading lag! TBH though, you DO have me a little excited (oh my!). I'm already mentally designing a RP Frames machine which would check blocks-harvested each mining action and try to trace veins of ore! I always did think the even distribution of ores was a bit silly. I'll PM you my e-mail anyway. When you get the chunkloading issue resolved, drop me a line and I'll at least take a look and let you know what I think!


    It isn't chunk loading... It's chunk generation which happens ONCE per chunk you generate.
    The problem is my veins cause MANY chunks to be generated at the same time and that is what the lag is about. After all the chunks are generated you will not experience any more lag than you usually do.

    While I do not want more challenge (I find my challenge from other sources), I can give you a much softer nerf to solar power.


    If you don't want a challenge making energy then why are you even bothering building generators? Just TMI your energy if you want to spend more time on other challenges?


    When you make a solar panel you need a generator. You know a generator that burns coal or other things... Solar power is more electronic then this, so for the sake of something slightly more realistic, drop this component from the blueprint. Replace it with a single circuit. Add a machine and a cable on one side and you have your new blueprint for a solar panel. IE: The bottom row is a machine, cable and circuit, the top is the same.


    The way i see it, drop the generator and the two circuits. In it's place put two tin cables and an advanced circuit. That would make sense to me as far as the recipe goes.


    The second, softer nerf. In real life, solar cells still operate during cloudy days (I worked at the florida solar energy center when I was younger). Yes they are not as efficient, but they do work quite well. So in this game when it is regular rain, they produce 0.5 EU / tick. If it is the thunder storm then you can say they drop to 0.25 or 0 EU.


    I don't mind solar panels producing power during rain or thunderstorms. Heck, they could even produce small amounts of energy in moonlight. (And MC should introduce lunar cycles IMHO)
    The problem i have with solar panels is (partly) this:



    That is the Olmedilla Park Solar Power Plant, Spain which is a 60 MW Solar power plant.


    vs this:



    which is the Didcot Power Station, UK. It produces 1958 MW.
    Given, i haven't included a picture of a coal pit but for the sake of simplicity, let's say they take the same amount of space.


    So, coal power produces 32 times more energy than solar power in real life per space consumed.
    In industrial craft, a generator produces 20 times more energy, but to run one generator non stop we would need (if we include the night downtime for solar power) 15 coal per minecraft day. We would of course be running it on charcoal so we need to use a furnace of some sort to burn logs into coal. Once again, for the sake of simplicity lets go with 2 coal to produce 15 coal so that's 17 coal (17 logs) that needs to be harvested each day to keep such a generator running non stop.
    In my experience, to meet demands you thus need at least 8 tree spots (with 2 tiles spacing in between then, using pinewood) for a total of 200 tiles consumed per generator. Then (since cutting trees each minecraft day is a true bore) you also need to set up an automated system that cuts them down and sends them to the furnaces, as well as replants them. This takes space AND energy. (unless you use redpower2's free work block breakers, which i don't because i don't like free energy)
    Not to mention trees grow tall, i think it is 12 tiles high?


    So in the case of solar panels, you can have 200 solar panels in that same space. Thus you get 200 active EU/t when it's sunny. (100 effective EU/t)
    No matter how you twist and turn that, solar power is producing more power than generators per space consumed. Sure they are expensive but once you have them set up you never need to touch them ever again and they take no time at all to set up if you compare it to the time it takes to set up an automated coal plant.


    So opposed to what you would expect from a real life situation (where burning fossils is WAAAAY more effective then catching sunlight), in IC² it's completely the other way around.
    Even if it's raining 1 day out of 5 (which isn't the average at all) you still get an effective 80 EU/t per day out of a solar park whereas you can only dream about that in a coal based generator automated farm.


    To make any sense then, solar panels should have it's output reduced to say 0.1 EU/t...!


    I still do not understand why people think it needed to be nerfed. So someone can build a giant solar array and get 1000s of EU. So what? Why do you care? How does it hurt you that someone else in another game is doing this? If you do not like it in your game, then don't build a giant solar array.


    It's called SMP, have you ever played it?
    If someone builds 1,000 solar panels the server will DIE under the CPU load. I don't mind people building 1,000 solar panels in SSP. They are free to use whatever they want (including TMI, WorldEdit and Equivalent Exchange) in SSP. (Even though cheating yourself doesn't make much sense now does it?)
    Back to the point then... Multiplayer! I can make a 1740 effective EU/t nuclear reactor. All i need to do is find 45 uranium ore every 2.7 hours (Unless i make a breeder too) as well as build A LOT of buckets and pipes and expensive machinery etc etc to make one. I would employ my designing skills every step of the way to achieve that goal and i wouldn't lag the server.


    Yet, someone else on the same server can make 1,000 solar panels (and thus reach >50% of my reactors output) using somewhat more iron in exchange for the more advanced materials. They lag the server for everybody and they never have to re-fill their solar panels. They can use the time saved to make other things happen. I bet that they will even be finished with their solar farm long before i finish my reactor if we started at the same time and had one half each of the world to ourselves.


    You still wonder why I think solar panels are OP and should be nerfed?


    On a side note, for SSP/SMP there should be config entries to determine how much energy each generator can produce. As well as the energy costs of all machines, this way if one generator or machine is OP/UP then it's simply a matter of altering the config entry for that specific generator/machine.

    you are right i just ran the numbers on my plans for the ice king (my next project) and it does stay a 24% loss almost exactly i was just about to cross out what i had said earlier when i noticed you posted =P however i have found that i can make a HUGE 5 chamber system whose cooling system is only 7x14x20 in dimensions and pumps out 1510 eu/t the one thing that ice systems do give you is the ability to make massive output from a single core although the construction costs are absurd =P


    let it be known though that absurdity never kept me from doing something


    Until you breach 1740 EU/t an ice CASUC is less effective than a bucket CASUC. Yes, i agree that ice is underpowered in comparison to water buckets but then again, ice is stackable whereas buckets are not. It's harder to design a bucket CASUC for that very reason. (Though easy if you use energy links from power crystals BC<->IC² conversion mod.)

    A line of refined iron in the crafting table is used to create EV cables.


    And I think you should reduce the amount of iron used because iron is already used in almost everything in IC2.


    Iron is used by pretty much everything in the industrial age. It's called Industrial craft, not modern craft or stone craft. ;)

    The problem with solar power is that once you have it set up it runs for ever... (even though it takes breaks every once in a while during night and rain)
    They are meant to be free energy and just like their real life counterparts, free energy comes at a hefty setup cost.


    The thing about expensive though is that once you reach a certain level (you have a diamond drill, some dynamite and iron ore is coming in faster than you can macerate it) the solar panels are dirt cheap compared to a nuke.
    Personally, i prefer plain old generators running of charcoal because they give me easy access to power and the power source is still renewable. And with any of the other two major mods (BC or RP2) you can automate the system.
    I am perfectly fine with automated tree farm fueled power generators because they take skill to implement.
    Solar panels on the other hand is just a matter of placing a few blocks and cables. There isn't much designing going on and then they just sit there, making power... each day just making power, never to be cared for ever again.
    I could just as well TMI in a bunch of MFSU's and lapo crystals and have the same effect in the end.

    ... BTW... Any chance that that Veins mod is public?


    I am still working out some of the kinks... Or at least trying to.
    If you wanna help me alpha test i can give you the files, configs and even source code. I intend on releasing my source later anyways with "It's your stuff" license. (That's how i roll man)
    But like i said, not making it public until i can be somewhat proud of the release. What remains to be tested right now is the balance between mining for hours on end just to find a vein and mining for 2 minutes and find all the resources you would ever need.
    On a side note, if your PC is slow then using my mod will force you to take long breaks as new ore veins are generated. Each vein is generated across several chunks on demand. I could try and the veins load gradually per chunk but the problem with that is that F.E IC² is creating new WorldGenMinable objects every time it intends to create an ore. I tried to remedy this by altering the way IC2 generates ores but couldn't get the recompiled class to play nice.


    Send me a PM if you want to test.


    As for the rest, i understand you perfectly. I don't want to run around all over the place just to keep things running either. I want to have some "me" time in the game but i just consider certain energy sources cheap and if for example solar panels had to have some supporting machinery to operate then i wouldn't mind them so much. But as it stands now they just feel like another way of placing an MFSU with a TMI'd lapo crystal... minus the manual refilling every once in a while.


    Sad to hear about your laptop not being able to handle large quantities of machines. For that there is nothing i can do... Get an upgrade sometime soon?
    Nothing beats a fully featured factory!

    ... the "opinion" that the Earth was flat, were accepted so broadly that they were considered fact. Those who challenged those opinions were reviled, despite their ability to back up their findings.
    ...


    I have heard (and then read) different though, the notion that the earth was flat wasn't as widespread as we have been taught to believe. Maybe you should do some research into that.
    And it IS very nice to see that nobody is perfect, even HeadHunter can be wrong. :D (Finally, payback)

    ... If I have to be honest with myself though, I don't even think of Uranium as a finite resource... It's coming up in my quarries with ridiculous frequency. What's more, my quarries run off of a tree farm to charcoal energy system anyway. It's all about the renewable resources. We have solar panels IRL, and they work, why not in Minecraft? Just think of the RP machines as being very efficient.


    But that's the problem isn't it? Uranium is finite and you are breaking the balance by using BC with IC since you can find oodles of uranium with a quarry. Imagine how much uranium you would have had without using quarries instead and you realize that uranium IS finite.
    It's like saying "I made a large hole in the map using WorldEdit and now i am finding 100 uranium ore!"
    However, i too use quarries and as such i too used to get stupid amounts of ores (because as per usual, IC² and Minecraft in general isn't balanced for quarries) before i revived my OreVeins mod and thus had control of how often, and in what quantities ores spawn.
    I made uranium about 1/2000th as rare as it is normally and when it does get generated it generates a vein of it that holds some uranium that leads to a mother lode. Finding it is the hardest part, then following the vein to the mother lode is the next difficulty (it's not a long strip, it twists and turns and even cuts out at times. You have to dig out a large area to find the mother lode, which can be several 100 blocks away from where you found the vein), finally you found the mother lode and you have enough uranium to last a day of constant playing or more.
    But eventually you run out of uranium and then you have to find the next vein. That isn't easy because of the scarcity. Thus, once more. Uranium is finite and i have to be careful not to spend it needlessly.



    You could, in all honesty, just set up a massive field of quarries, have the Uranium auto-processed, feed it into some 0-chamber Mark 1 reactors stuffed with plating and get the (much more complicated) equivalent of free solar energy.


    Yeah... With IC²'s balance in ore distribution you can ;)
    You can also use TMI...


    Personally, I go with a Reactor setup because of the EU/t/block it supplies. Instead of 100+ solar panels lagging me out, I have one (or a few) Reactor outputing the same amount.


    If you want to run your setup w/o 'free' energy, so be it, but if you are simply asking which (RP or BC) pipe system is superior for feeding coolant into a reactor, the answer (IMHO) is obviously RedPower. Remember, even if you aren't using the BC engines to supply the system with power, you still have to 'waste' space to collect solar energy, balance the energy grid so you use the minimum number of necessary panels/batteries to generate the needed power and last through a night (and any storms) and wire the whole damn thing, lol!


    True, but if you had to periodically maintain your solar panels then all would be good. As for the night/storm vs day ratio, building a few extra panels and using a batbox, MFE and/or MFSU you have enough power stored to last through several storms in a row...
    By maintain i mean, clean them off grit using cloth and windex (lol), to make that work you need wool and chemicals of some sort. Which means you need to find minerals which means you need to mine for it.
    Then solar panels would make more sense to me.


    EDIT: Also, keep in mind that the RP solar panel is currently the only way to get power into the RP system. I'm expecting more energy generators in the future, and MANY more devices to use the energy ON!


    P.S. For those thinking of conversion mods, please measure by RP/IC solar input conversion. One panel's output = one panel's output.


    Well, that's what bothers me even more... Why make the first and ONLY generator of bluetricity be "free" power?
    Why not instead make it a resource based generator from the get go. Eloraam knows how!


    And on the subject of "free" renewable energy. An automated tree farm with automated charcoal generation fed into generators is also free energy. Difference between that and solar panels is that building that automation at least requires more than putting some components in a crafting grid and placing a few cables and blocks.


    1. That is a safety thing, even though macerating coal doesn't give you 2 dusts it stops macerating there to make sure no dust magically disappears into the void.
    2. You sure you are using electrolyzed water cells? The recipe specifically calls for those even though the recipe images doesn't show that very clearly.


    EDIT: If unsure use a recipe book. (mod)