Hammer + Coal -> Coal Dust, New Nano-Production

  • tl;dr suggestions are in white


    Single-Use batteries just don't get the love they deserve. They aren't used in any cool recipes, and more, by the time you can make them you already have RE-Batteries unless you have been powering your macerator with redstone! Coal dust should be made by hand, with a hammer on coal. It can still be made in a Macerator, but not in the Extruder since rolling out coal makes no sense. This way, some people might actually use Single-Use batteries before making a generator. By the way, each Single-Use Battery is good for 1200 EU. Redstone dust is good for 800 EU, and a RE-Battery can hold 10000 EU. Crafting Single-Use Batteries is still the same:
    :Cable:
    :Gold Dust: = :RE Battery:x5, x8 if Hydrated Coal Dust (Pretend the Gold Dust is Redstone Dust and the RE Battery is Single-Use Batteries)
    :Coal Dust:


    The obvious problem here is that suddenly it is much easier to make Carbon Nanotubes for Rotors or Nanosuits. I propose a reworking of the Nanotube production line, which is a little bit odd to begin with. Here is how you make Nano-stuff right now:

    • Macerate Coal/Coal Blocks to get Coal Dust
    • Shapelessly craft 4 Coal Dust to get Raw Carbon Fibre
    • Shapelessly craft 2 Raw Carbon Fibres to get Raw Carbon Mesh
    • Compress Raw Carbon Mesh to get Carbon Plate
    • Craft whatever with the Raw Carbon Meshes or Carbon Plates


    I advance this replacement production line:

    • Compressed Coal Ball + Thermal Centrifuge -> Raw Carbon Fibre; note that each Raw Carbon Fibre now holds 8 Coal (Compressed Coal Ball = 8 Coal Dust + 1 Flint in Compressor)
    • Raw Carbon Fibre (x1) + Metal Former (Rolling) -> Raw Carbon Mesh
    • Compress Raw Carbon Mesh to get Carbon Plate


    The recipes make more sense to me this way. You get the fibre by centrifuging the impurities from coal which you have already compressed a little to make stronger, with a Flint core as the catalyst (this leaves nanotubes, aka. fibre). You roll the fibre up into a mesh, then compress that mesh with over 9000 Gibbl, and get the Carbon Plate.


    The unfortunate side effect is that Nanotechnology becomes significantly more expensive, as it now is not possible to make nanotubes from macerated coal by hand. The total cost of one is 8 Coal, 1 Flint and 24853 1/3 EU (29120 EU if you want it automatic, since no compressing Coal to Coal Blocks) :

    • 4800 EU to macerate each coal individually, but I assume the player macerates coal blocks. 600 EU + 1 Coal Block in Macerator gives 9 Coal Dust, so 8 Coal Dust therefore costs 533 1/3 EU. Note that you cannot compress coal into coal blocks (why not???), so that must be done by hand/another mod or you will have to use the 4800 EU.
    • 600 EU to compress the Coal Ball
    • The Centrifuge is tricky. Assuming it is already warm enough, I observe ~48EU/t for about ~22 seconds. This gives approximately 21120 EU for the one required operation. Warming or idling a Centrifuge costs 1 EU/t.
    • 2000 EU to roll out a Raw Carbon Mesh
    • 600 EU to compress the Carbon Mesh


    For comparison, the current Carbon Nanoplate costs 8 coal and 5400 EU or 1133 1/3 EU using Coal Blocks:

    • The same 4800 EU or 533 1/3 EU with Coal Blocks.
    • 600 EU to compress the Carbon Mesh


    I assume when this mechanic was implemented Coal Blocks weren't a thing, so that partially justifies the increase in cost but possibly not enough for the change between 5400 EU and 24853.33 EU, more than a 4.5fold increase in power consumption. Fully automatic processing justifies the increase from 24853.33 EU to 29120 EU in my opinion. For reference, 24853.33 EU is the equivalent of about 31 redstone dust, 20.7 Single-Use Batteries, or 2.4853 RE-Batteries. 5400 EU is equivalent to 6.75 redstone dust, or 0.675 RE-Batteries.


    Thoughts?

  • I like the idea, but I also want the coal ball to actually be a coal ball, as currently, it contains flint, so my proposition is to remove flint from the coal ball to make it more logic, and also for the industrial diamond, I also had an idea : Why not remove the iron/brick/obsidian core ? I mean it doesn't make sense anyway ;p , here is my I-diamond production : 8 carbon "nanotubes" plates in a crafting table in an "O" shape makes a high density carbon mesh, then thermal centrifuge it to get high density carbon nanotube mesh, then compress it for a diamond :D


    Anyway, I talk to much ;P , +1 :thumbup:

    • Official Post

    I agree that single use batteries are underused, but this is reworking just for the sake of fixing coal dust being Forge Hammer-able, which really doesn't seem advantageous with solar panels suddenly craftable without a macerator, and nano-armour nerfed even more. It takes 32 diamonds to make a full set of nano-armour and an MFE to charge it as is, it's another 4 at least if you force people to make a thermal centrifuge first. Nano-armour should either be made easier to craft (not harder as you're suggesting) or a lower tier of electric armour added just so there's not such a harsh leap from metal to electric armour. The thermal centrifuge is a painfully slow thing as it is, carbon plates really aren't that complicated to need something that punishing.


    Not to mention the tech loop, of a thermal centrifuge needing an advanced machine casing which lone behold needs carbon plates. Your idea doesn't work.



    Another thing, the carbon plate mechanic has been in since IC1, so saying it was probably in before coal blocks is a massive understatement in itself :P

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

  • Aaaah! I forgot about Solar Panels and the Tech Loop! I haven't used Solar Panels myself, so that is why I forgot about them... doh. Although, the only reason I don't use them is because they pale in comparison to nuclear/kinetic power... I don't see why anyone would use them except to power a water pump (you could use watermills, but you would need so much space to power a pump it is even more useless).


    About the tech loop. This one is difficult, here's a few (distinct) ideas:

    • The Thermal Centrifuge's recipe is changed. Iron is replaced with Refined Iron, the Advanced Machine Casing is replaced with an Ore Washing Plant. Maybe the motor should be changed too, unsure.
    • The Thermal Centrifuge loses its advanced machine casing, and instead requires a block of Refined Iron.
    • You get the first Raw Carbon Fibres by lasering Blocks of Coal on Super-Heat mode.
    • You get the first Raw Carbon Fibres by lasering Blocks of Coal on Super-Heat mode, but this only has a chance of dropping Fibres.


    Mine_Sasha, what about a Coal Ball being a compressed Coal Block? Macerating a Coal Block and Compressing a Coal Block both cost 600 EU.


    I have a couple of questions for you, Chocohead. 1) Do you think Composite Armour is a good mediator between Metal/Vanilla armour and Nanosuits? Composite Armor lasts longer, for one. I found myself progressing through armour from Leather to Bronze to Bronze/Composite to Diamond/Composite to Nanosuit, or, on my other world, straight from Bronze/Composite to Nanosuit. 2) Don't you have lots of diamonds, anyways? Diamonds are usually not a problem for me as one of the first things I did at my base is to make a Diamond factory.



    Also, my Thermal Centrifuges aren't too slow so long as you give them an Inverted Redstone Upgrade (or if you care about energy, a redstone signal) to keep them running. It costs 1EU/T to keep them hot. If you still think Nanosuits should be easier to make and not harder, I trust your expertise. Are you more in favor of status-quo or do you have something else in mind? I think Composite Armour is the answer.

  • Meh, you get the general idea, make industrial diamonds only require carbon ( coal/charcoal refined into carbon "nanotubes" plate ) and not other catalyst/dunno such as obsidian/bricks/iron blocks ;P

    • Official Post

    Do you think Composite Armour is a good mediator between Metal/Vanilla armour and Nanosuits? Composite Armor lasts longer, for one. I found myself progressing through armour from Leather to Bronze to Bronze/Composite to Diamond/Composite to Nanosuit, or, on my other world, straight from Bronze/Composite to Nanosuit.

    Composite does work, quite well really, but no one uses it anymore. Composite is mostly forgotten, as soon as people get advanced alloys, they look towards electric armour over metal stuff, and with other mods adding better armours, it's often over looked, which is quite sad really.

    Don't you have lots of diamonds, anyways?

    Often no. I have quite bad luck diamond wise. I always have far too much copper, more tin than I need, a decent amount of iron, but never enough diamonds. Using coal to make them is somewhat annoying too, as it's not just IC2 that uses it.

    Thermal Centrifuges aren't too slow so long as you give them an Inverted Redstone Upgrade (or if you care about energy, a redstone signal) to keep them running.

    The actual processing time is still slow though. An ore processing chain of macerator->ore washing plant->thermal centrifuge->furnace will always jam at the thermal centrifuge.

    Are you more in favor of status-quo or do you have something else in mind?

    I'm not completely sure. I'd really like something like combo armours (addon) integrated into IC2, but I doubt it'd ever happen.

    I think Composite Armour is the answer.

    In the short term it works. Longer wise, there's still an expensive jump to electric. Although I guess that's true in real life as well.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

  • -Sigh- , I also wish combo armor was part of vanilla IC2, this mod was really awsome ;( , I don't think it's even updated now :c , I had a lot of fun with it on 1.4.7/1.5.2 ( I don't remember exactly ;P ).

    • Official Post

    I'm pretty sure it is, not sure if it'll completely work with the latest IC2 builds, but I've definitely played 1.7.10 using it.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

  • Is it really updated :O ? I haven't found any stable version of it ;P , and also, is the E-net accessible by modders ? If someone makes an addon that brings back a functionnal ( even limited and temporary ) working, I would be hyped :D

  • OMG, I have a super suggestion, why not making those batteries work with bauble ? :D


    Yeah, sorta, minus the jetpack ( can be substitued with a flying ring from Project E or Extra Util ).

    • Official Post

    It looks like the new Charging Batteries/Crystals can accomplish a similar goal to the Combo Armor mod.

    Not completely. It doesn't allow the CF Pack to be in your armour, nor the energy storage/decreased tiering/jetpack. Charging batteries still require an inventory slot too.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.