[GregTech-5][1.7.10-FORGE-1355+][Unofficial but approved Port][Stable] Even GT5 Experimental is slowly getting stable.

  • I remember pipes not being able to get anything close to the listed throughput unless shutters were used to prevent backflow, has anything changed to fix that?

  • If the supply is enough to keep the pipes full, you can get the rated throughput, because there's no backflow. Or if the length is short, and there's little room for backflow.


    A couple of examples: at one point I had a Huge Steel Pipe (19,200 L/sec) reliably supplying 5 Basic Steam Turbines (demand 10,500 L/sec). In my current setup, a Large Steel Boiler generating 24,000 L/sec has no problems getting steam into my main tank via two very short Huge Steel Pipes.


    The problems arise when you're trying to move small amounts of liquid from one point to another, and you care about how quickly it gets there. The overall rate is OK if it's a continuous supply, but if you're doing something like emptying some containers, the last bit of the supply will take forever to trickle to the end.

  • Man, searching the Nether for Nether-specific ores is a huge pain.


    I've learned to prospect in the Overworld, and it's not so bad, if tedious. The Nether, though, has those frequent gaps, so I'll be digging a vertical shaft and it dead ends in the ceiling of a huge chamber. Which is made much, much worse by Ghasts. Playing Ceiling Cat with a Ghast got me killed, and cost me all my gear, including an Infinite bow. The blast didn't catch me, but the blast knocked out the blocks under my feet, which led to a fatal fall. By the time I could make my way back all my stuff had evaporated.


    In theory all those wide spaces would make it easier to find exposed ore, but again, Ghasts. My policy these days is never to be in the open, because if I can't run for someplace with overhead cover, sooner or later one of those blasts will hit me. It's funny, since outside of Nether Fortresses, the Nether would be easier than then Overworld if it weren't for Ghast bombardment. Pigmen will leave you alone if you don't bother them, and Magma Creams are no threat.


    My current reason for mucking about is Nether Quartz. I haven't found any veins so far. I've had enough from Small Ores in the past, but now I'm doing stuff with Railcraft that demands it in truckload lots. One Routing Switch is 32 Nether Quartz.


    The vertical-shaft technique has been good for finding veins so far in the Nether, the few times I'm not interrupted by a huge cavern over a sea of lava.

  • I've had some luck in the nether by working my way down to the level of the ore I was looking for then dashing across the open spaces until I hit a wall.

  • If the supply is enough to keep the pipes full, you can get the rated throughput, because there's no backflow. Or if the length is short, and there's little room for backflow.


    A couple of examples: at one point I had a Huge Steel Pipe (19,200 L/sec) reliably supplying 5 Basic Steam Turbines (demand 10,500 L/sec). In my current setup, a Large Steel Boiler generating 24,000 L/sec has no problems getting steam into my main tank via two very short Huge Steel Pipes.


    The problems arise when you're trying to move small amounts of liquid from one point to another, and you care about how quickly it gets there. The overall rate is OK if it's a continuous supply, but if you're doing something like emptying some containers, the last bit of the supply will take forever to trickle to the end.


    This is the exact use for pumps.


  • This is the exact use for pumps.


    Pumps don't work that way. The "small amount, last bit trickles in" case definitely applies when you're using a pump to extract the fluid from a tank. Gregtech pipes don't appear to model pressure in any way. Rather, each pipe section is a mini-tank, and it will attempt to move fluid to each adjacent entity (pipe or tank). If the prior pipe is full, the entire contents to go to the next pipe, which is why the high, constant source case gives you the rated flow. When the prior pipe is half-empty, some of the contents move in that direction.


    Now, it's true that you can put pumps at regular intervals into a pipe. That's the expensive, awkward solution Requia mentioned, only using pumps instead of shutters. It's actually a better solution than a shutter, since a shutter only prevents backflow from pipe 2 into pipe 1. A pump actively moves the contents of pipe 1 to pipe 2, so one pump every 2 pipe sections is as effective as a shutter every section. Shutters are a bit cheaper at 4 iron each; I'd have to work out the precise cost of a 32 volt pump for a comparison, but it involves at least 4.25 tin for the rotor, 1.5 iron, 2 copper, 1 tin, plus insulation for the motor.


    Regardless, pumps increase the cost of any small pipe considerably, since those run 0.5 - 1 bronze or plastic each. The incremental cost isn't that great for Huge pipes (12 ingots each), but if you're installing a Huge pipe, you're absolutely doing it for a high-volume, constant flow case, not moving small amounts of liquid.


    The upshot is that if I'm doing moving small volumes, I try to put the machines adjacent, so one is putting its output direction into the other, or at most a 1 section pipe, where backflow can't happen. Moving seed oil or molten rubber into an assembler, for example.

  • Looking at the ultimate battery in NEI crashed entire comp and corrupted my world.
    And of course I don't have a backup, so I guess I'm done playing :(


    Oh wait, it didn't corrupt the whole thing, it just fried Ender Storage. Purging that part of the save recovered :thumbsup:

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Requia ().

  • There are days when I think a save-corrupting bug would be a net positive. I'd rage, of course, but I've got other games in my backlog (i.e. Civ 6) that I think would be more rewarding. This current search for Nether Quartz is getting really boring (interspersed with moments of terror when something goes wrong). But I feel like I can't get it go while the various projects I have planned are not finished.


    I've found a lot of other ores. Some of which I would have been glad of earlier. Given my huge oversupply of sulfur, it's hard to remember there was a time when I desperately needed it for rubber production.

  • Smea, my solution was not to use pumps every few pipe blocks but to use them every pipe block. Nothing in GT is cheap. Having that kind of behavior is more important when there's a lot of fluid to move and the costs are high anyway.

  • Smea, my solution was not to use pumps every few pipe blocks but to use them every pipe block. Nothing in GT is cheap. Having that kind of behavior is more important when there's a lot of fluid to move and the costs are high anyway.



    Shutters would have the same effect for far less cost.

  • Having that kind of behavior is more important when there's a lot of fluid to move and the costs are high anyway.


    That's actually the case where you don't need pumps. If you're moving a lot of fluid in large pipes, pumps will make virtually no difference in the net throughput. It's the case where you're moving 1000-4000L and the next machine won't start processing until it all arrives that's a problem.

  • If you aren't maxing out the pipe's rate and internal tank then you need pumps. If it's close to the max you can actually end up with voided fluid. A nightmare if you're going for a closed loop with an LHE. If you are maxing it then yeah a shutter will work fine.

  • It's not the pipe blocks that void fluid. Output hatches do though. I think I ran into it when there was the sloshing on a near full set of pipes and every once in a while the fluid in the output hatch wouldn't have any place to go.

  • If you aren't maxing out the pipe's rate and internal tank then you need pumps. If it's close to the max you can actually end up with voided fluid. A nightmare if you're going for a closed loop with an LHE. If you are maxing it then yeah a shutter will work fine.


    Again, shutters work fine for this, the pump will only *limit* flow through a GT pipe, never enhance it.


    And now for a game of why won't my blast furnace start round 16, 17? something like that.


    Checklist: power provided by LV battery bufffer x16, so more than enough, recipe doesn't have a required voltage.


    structure shows as complete, all tools used on maintenance hatch


    Muffler pointed up


    Aluminum dust in the input hatch.


    What am I missing?

  • Pumps do increase the flow rate when the pipe internal tanks aren't full. They're not a useless cover. In a system where output hatches void because of full pipes then yes shutters are enough.

  • Checklist: power provided by LV battery bufffer x16, so more than enough, recipe doesn't have a required voltage.


    It does 120 EU / tick even if it works at 32 volts, though. You have at least 3 LV energy hatches? Each LV hatch accepts 64 EU/tick (32 volts x 2 amps). Technically 2 is enough, but since any mechanical fault increases energy cost by 10%, it'll stop working if you deveop a fault and only have 2.


    I'm assuming you're not getting "structure incomplete," the controller block is in the center of a bottom row, and the muffler is in the center of the top layer. I'm also assuming you're using a soft hammer or a controller cover to start it.


    My basic EBF has 3 LV energy hatches supplied by a single 8x tin power bus from a 9x battery buffer filled with 8 batteries (to limit possible output to 8 amps). Though 9 would still be safe since 3 LV hatches can't demand more than 6 amps.

  • Ah, I only have the one hatch.


    For BloodAsp: I suggest putting that there's an amp limit of 2 in the tooltip. This is very counterintuitive.

  • [

    Pumps do increase the flow rate when the pipe internal tanks aren't full.


    Shutters every segment will have the same effect as pumps every segment, or pumps every other segment. Pumps are never faster than shutters every segment. A pipe with one-way shutters every segment will move fluid at the pipe's rated capacity, or the supply rate, whichever is less. Pumps don't change that.


    Not that you really need either one, except perhaps at the start of the pipe to avoid the overflow-via-slosh case you mentioned. As the amount of fluid you're moving approaches the pipe capacity, the actual flow rate will approach the pipe's maximum rating, even without shutters or pumps.


    The value of pumps as covers is not to improve fluid flow, but to extract fluid that can't otherwise be extracted. For example, if a machine produces both items and fluid, and only has one output side, you must use either a conveyor or a pump to remove the other output. Pumps can also extract fluid from a generator, if you want to move the generator and don't want to lose the contents.