IC2 release

    • Official Post

    Just thought I'd note that with EE, it takes 512 cobble iirc to make 1 diamond.


    In IC2, using a recycler, you need 9 UUM, which is 9 scrap x 9 for one UUM. Because the average on a recycler is about 20%, you go ~405 cobble -> 81 scrap -> 9 UUM -> 1 diamond. So you actually need less cobble in IC2 than in EE to make 1 diamond. Although you have to add in the power requirement for all that scrap, it's still noteworthy. I do agree however, that the mass converters and stuff in EE are a little overpowered. I easily 'completed' EE in about 5 hours by doing a little mining, then AFKing using the upgrading machines. Felt like I might as well have been using TMI after a while.

    Quote from Lurch1985

    Just thought I'd note that with EE, it takes 512 cobble iirc to make 1 diamond.


    In IC2, using a recycler, you need 9 UUM, which is 9 scrap x 9 for one UUM. Because the average on a recycler is about 20%, you go ~405 cobble -> 81 scrap -> 9 UUM -> 1 diamond. So you actually need less cobble in IC2 than in EE to make 1 diamond.


    Sorry, friend, but your math is off. Way off.


    In EE, you need 6 stacks of cobble to make a diamond - 384 pieces.
    In IC2, you're off on the scrap chance, and WAY off on how much scrap is needed to make one UU-M. Scrap is more like a 12.5% chance - recycling a stack of items generally gives you 8 scrap.
    More importantly, it takes 34 pieces of scrap (not 9) to get a piece of UU-M. So 9*34= 306 scrap, which requires 306*8= 2448 cobble (or 38.25 stacks of cobble. Over SIX times more cobble than EE requires.


    I broke down the other cost comparisons in another post here - suffice to say, it's WAY more expensive to make a diamond in IC2:

    Quote

    (Transmutation in EE) does not take "a lot of resources" - it takes 4 glowstone dust, 4 redstone, and a slimeball (which can be made from a bucket of water, a sapling, a reed and some seeds).
    It's a simple 4-step process - transmute the 6 stacks of cobble into 96 clay, transmute the clay into 16 iron, turn that into 4 gold, and VOILA. Diamond.
    Quite the far cry from building a recycler, grinding 38 stacks of material into scrap, then pumping over a MILLION EU into a machine that requires, among other things, a DIAMOND at its heart.


    Nothing wrong with Equivalent Exchange, but please... do not for a moment pretend that the processes are even comparable, let alone balanced. If you want to talk about EE, keep in mind that the EMC for a Mass Fabricator, not counting the energy costs for the material or the copper, tin and rubber (for which there is no stated value) is 5,632. That's about 20 to 30 times as expensive as a Philospher's Stone, and the amount of cobble you need to scrap is more than six times as much.


    {EDIT: Fixed a couple of typos]

    Quote from cpy

    I wonder why buildcraft and industrialcraft are not the same mod :) I mean those mods are so uber together, but since only thing i hate is filling lava cells by hand, oh i wish someone made bucket(empty cell) filler for 3.0.1+


    Love your mod list except for EE, that is just awful.


    As for cell filler, use a miner and a pump (IC2 machines that is) and you have an automated cell filler.
    You can also hold a stack of cells and right click at liquids to fill those cells. I have a macro that spams my right mouse button once every millisecond. I empty lava polls in no time using cells.

    Quote from Cadde

    Love your mod list except for EE, that is just awful.


    EE's actually not so bad - except it's so unbalanced that it is like the Easy Button when used with any other mod.


    Honestly, if you try out EE for a while you start to see a lot of parallels between it and IC2, in terms of certain processes, items and machines. The functions are similar, the abilities are similar - the main difference is that IC2 is more balanced in its approach. "Transmutation" is still possible, but it takes a lot more in the way of resources, time and energy. Much of the equipment acts like EE gear, but it requires energy and rare components. Think Dark Matter is hard to make? Try making an Iridium Plate. Then consider that you need two or even four of them. And a Lapotron.


    In short, EE by itself is fun, but still imbalanced - though it's humorous to see people on the MCF thread talk about how "unbalanced" BC and IC are. They're blind to the fact that even by itself, making a diamond out of 6 stacks of cobble (using a device made from pretty common ingredients) is totally imbalanced. All they've done, in typical powergamer fashion, is moved the "endgame" to mid-game and made a new, more powerful endgame. As a consequence, THEY imbalance every other mod they are used with. I'd love to point out this fact to them, but I'm sure their fanboys are nearly as rabid as the BTW crowd.


    There are, however, some pretty cool toys in the mod that would go nicely in IC2, providing they are made with a "technical" approach (and properly balanced in terms of resource cost).

    All i need is some alchemical coal aggregator and destruction catalyst, everything else is just meh. :)
    I mean that coal last very very loong time, if you fill BC engine in stack of those, you're good for lot of hours. Anyway i was thinking of switching to forestry + teleport pipes for renewable biodiesel instead of alchemical coal.

    Quote from cpy

    All i need is some alchemical coal aggregator and destruction catalyst, everything else is just meh. :)
    I mean that coal last very very loong time, if you fill BC engine in stack of those, you're good for lot of hours. Anyway i was thinking of switching to forestry + teleport pipes for renewable biodiesel instead of alchemical coal.


    Yeah, that part of Forestry looks nice. Although so far i've have yet to have any want for oil or fuel as the spouting deposits have huge amounts of oil in them.
    In my 1.8.1 world i've got a fuel tank that goes from the uppermost bedrock to the top build limit and it's like 80% full of fuel right now. I've also got 12 combustion engine making IC2 power via a converter. (they also power the 3 refineries off an on but those engines don't use that much fuel)
    though I wouldn't exactly say no to hands off bio-fuel generation without having to go out and set up a pump and a teleport pipe.

    Quote from cpy

    All i need is some alchemical coal aggregator and destruction catalyst, everything else is just meh. :)


    I liked my Destruction Catalyst... until I upgraded it to a Catalytic Lens.
    Who needs a Quarry when you can make a 9x9 hole to bedrock in seconds, and all the output is placed directly in your inventory?
    Yes, EE is broken, unbalanced and abusive - but it's a hell of alot of fun.

    Yeah lens is even more hardcore, you can make 64x64x6 hole in a minute or two :D
    And having alchemical bag and a stone of eternal density and you can mine like a boss.

    Offtoping alot

    you are :thumbup:
    so,I didn't catch that-are there any works, preparing for 1.0.0? It's quite lame - being chained to 1.8.1 - sooo many mods are made specifically for 1.0.0 and just small numbers of them can be used on 1.8.1 :thumbdown:
    I want to upgrade badly,but I just cant leave IC2 T_____T
    BTW 1.1 alpha is on the go and it annoys me :/
    sury far my bed english