Suggestion: Chemical Engineering

  • Tonight I got an idea for this suggestion. Please don't get mad at me if you don't like it, it was 3am here: I thought scrap had to do something special, because it can basically consist of anything, so I thought of something it could stand for. S.C.R.A.P., or Stuff Concentrating Random Addition's Percentage, added to a reactor with substances in it would increase the concentration of a random substance. However, I didn't think of a way to prevent one from just inserting the rarest of the ingredients and then just throwing in tons of scrap, and then adding the rest, but I'm sure there is a wa to prevent this. Maybe only let it work when there's a certain amount of substances in the reactor?
    Another idea would be Stuff Changing Reactor's Aqua pH, so scrap inserted into a reactor with water in it would change the pH level a bit, maybe up to 1 up or down, so when you fill a reactor with pure water (pH 7) and add a piece of scrap, the pH could change to any level from 6 to 8, except 7.

    Thanks for reading!

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  • Zjarek :
    I'm not particularly attached to my current proposal for chemical engineering. :P
    The idea as is (Multiblock reactors, Heat/pH/Water/Concentration, reactions, etc.) was born out of a combnation of:

    • My ignorance of chemistry
    • K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid) approach
    • CPU-load considerations
    • Personal plebtasity

    Again, I'd love to hear other suggestions on how to do this.

    @I don't know:
    I like the idea to use scrap in reactions. The random concentration (and by extention, the idea to make other/more reagents have random properties 8| ) is pretty neat.
    My suggested method for concentration would make no distinction between different materials, rather the concentration is tied to what reaction you are currently using.
    (I.e. a reactor can only run one reaction at a time, so you can only add the stuff related to that reaction.)
    (I'll try to draw up some picture mock-ups of what the system could look like, in the next few days.)
    In terms of balance then, you can simply limit what reactions scrap can be added to. (I.e. the really good-stuff reactions don't allow scrap.)

    Reading through the old posts again, and giving it a second runthrough in my brain, I came to realise that not all reactors have to be equal in terms of what they need.
    To be more specific and clear, I realise that not all reactors have to have pH/Heat/Concentration/Water.
    In fact, one could simply define that all reactors have a ReactionVariable 1 to 4.
    What text is displayed to the user (Heat, pH, Concentration, Water) can be defined per reactor.

    For example, a pressure vessel could have "Pressure", "Mass", "Heat" (does not always require 4, can have less)
    A mixer could have "pH", "Water", "Mass", "Density"
    A magic cauldron could have "Chicken Guts", "Chakra", "Manna", "Cake"

    It would provide more flexibility in terms of naming and realism, though introduce more complexity with defining reagent effects.
    I.e. reagents would define Param1 to Param4 changes, though Param1 for a pressure vessel is pressure and Param1 for a mixer is pH, so making the reagent usable in both could complicate things.
    Though, it places the added complexity in the hands of the modder, not the user, so that should be possible to manage.


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    The post was edited 1 time, last by UberWaffe: New content added. ().

  • So, maybe just go with basic reactor setup (ideal mixing, ignore most of the fluid mechanisc and advanced thermodynamics models), but including one important concept in chemical engineering, that many reactions are reversible. In laboratory conditions you can just ignore it and throw excess into the river, but not when you are producing something. In minecraft, due to lack of economy, some kind of polution system would be needed (see TC2). A quick course of the basics:

    This may sound complicated, but it would result in about about 50 - 100 FP operations per tick per reactor which is nothing, unless you have 10^6 reactors. There are also many more realistic models, still not computational costly, but resulting mod would then possibly be good masters thesis ;). Catalyst can be very easily incorporated into Arrhenius equation, by decreasing activation energy. Of course these model also work with one way reactions, I remember one, which was correctly simulated using arrhenius equation with Ea less than 0. I'm sorry if there is any error which is not a result of simplification.

    Edit: BTW, this complication is only on modder side, player can only see effect. Higher temperature makes reaction faster, but if reaction is exothermic, it will cause lower maximum reaction yield. Similar with pressure (not included in this short theoretical fragment), if gases (eg A -> 2B) are produced yield will be better with lower pressure (but also lower pressure -> smaller number of actual reagents) and if volume of products is smaller than substrates (A + B -> C), high pressure will be better (you just normalise K to be unitless, IIRC in gas phase by multiplying/dividing by 1 bar or 1,013 bar, in water using 1 mol dm^-3).

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Zjarek: Apparently these forum uses BBcode ().

  • Did anyone look at this thread and think, "chemical weapons in industrium conflict"?
    Though this would require that gasses do not simply dissipate. Maybe particles? Have gas particles push away from each other and disappear after a while, or after colliding with something it has an effect on.
    An example would be tear gas canisters, basically tin cells filled with tear gas. On impact, it spawns 50-75 tear gas particles, which then go about their business.
    Would also be nice if you could modify the gas somehow. Say, give it some weight so it pools into dips in the ground, denying cover.

  • Going to try add quite a bit of data to the table later in the form of a Google doc, but it'll mostly involve:

    Removed... under development

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    The post was edited 2 times, last by MagusUnion ().

  • Sorry if this has been mentioned before; what if before the reactor and all that stuff can be built, you allowed for recipes for stuff like gunpowder. Another idea for the retrival of resources would be to make some a drop chance, like flint, and others an ore.

  • I can't wait to have glass flasks, boilers and other stuff to prepare chemicals and spill it on ground and see big ecological disasters, yay!

  • Sharing some info:(I'll try to translate everything :D)
    -strong acids:
    H2SO4 - it can be used to get fertilizers, get metals from ores (!), used as electrolite?(omfg) in lead batboxes in cars
    HNO3 - it can be used to create fertilizers, healing stuff, explosive stuff and plastic, best quality acid is used in creation of electronic stuff,used to separate gold and silver from eachother in ore
    H3PO4 - is used to fight corrosion? (stuff, that happens to iron in water)
    HCl - is used to get more oil from extraction site, can be used to turn zombies into skeletons :D
    Strangely, I couldn't remember anything noticable about opposite of acids 8| nothing worth mentioning. Maybe that throwing pure Li in lakes and toilets can create big BOOM?

  • Element Vars:
    This set should only contain variables regarding bonding and nuclear energy.
    Electronegativity <float> (diastance)

    Bond Radii <float,float,float> (Single, Double, Triple,quadruple (rare),quintuple (very rare),sextuple (Mo and W diatomic molecules only have this))

    Ionic Radii <int,float,int,float> (charge,distance, can have more than one)

    Electron config (um, this one could be a pain in the)

    Nucleotides <int,float,int,float> (isotope,isomer,halflife the halflife in seconds)
    _ isotope decay and energy
    _ <int>(isotope) <float> (mass)
    _ <int>; (Isomer)<int,float,float,int,float,float> (decay mode(there are so many of them),energy,chance leaving out the chance results in decay occurring in tandem with previous decay)

    Ionization energy <float> (how much energy does it take to remove all of the electrons from the nucleus)

    I seem to be having a serious retrieval failure of the other variables, can someone fill them in for me?

    The compound set contains the things related to reactions. Bond energy is tied to the length of a given bond.

    Note: all seven isotopes of hydrogen would need there own element card due to varying ion sizes in the +1 oxidation state.

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    The post was edited 1 time, last by RockRaiderZulu ().