Plain generator as green gen

    Quote from CrafterOfMines57

    You're going to need a crapload of generators to keep up with that demand of energy from something that outputs 10 eu/t, not to mention a system capable of evenly distributing those over all generators. At that point, you're pretty much better off going with wind or nuclear, although if the amount of space taken up/massive amounts of iron required is ignored, this would probably work pretty effectively for starting out mass fabrication

    It's still 6-8 times less iron than windgen, and 20 times less than solars. Space takein is about three times less than windgens, and can be stacked vertically as well.


    Nuclears are much more compact, of cause, but cost more in iron (per eu/t), and a lot of copper and gold too. And use finite fuel.


    And if you don't have that much iron early, Fillerfarm is scalable both ways - you don't have to build all that gens at once.


    On the other hand, Fillerfarm is probably laggy - especially scaffold making part.


    So, it is not too OP, but a pretty good option.


    Yes, scaffold crafting and distribution is probably most tricky part, but not too much. Even distribution is trivial with Advanced Insertion Pipes, but afaik it is not out yet for 1.3.2.
    Still, it can be done with just base BC. I have several ideas, will tell which one is better after testing.

    • Official Post

    Your only problem about normal generators is to keep up a fuel production enough to fuel about 100+ generators, thats when wind gens comes up.

    Quote from SpwnX

    Your only problem about normal generators is to keep up a fuel production enough to fuel about 100+ generators, thats when wind gens comes up.

    Fuel production is easy, as I wrote. One 21x21 tree farm can feed 100 generators, power itself and make some extra fuel for other BC machines. Problem is distributing scaffolds to generators, but it is very similar to making effective cobblegen+recyclerfarm.

    • Official Post
    Quote from baturinsky

    Fuel production is easy, as I wrote. One 21x21 tree farm can feed 100 generators, power itself and make some extra fuel for other BC machines. Problem is distributing scaffolds to generators, but it is very similar to making effective cobblegen+recyclerfarm.

    But if compared to the simple work of placing wind gens and some wires, it needs much more work, time and CPU (to run all those stuff that causes a bit of lag)

    Quote from SpwnX

    But if compared to the simple work of placing wind gens and some wires, it needs much more work, time and CPU (to run all those stuff that causes a bit of lag)

    Yes, windmills have many advantages over thiss setup. No need for Forestry, less server and visual lag, less work/skill required... But, they require 6+ more resources to make as much eu/t. And, if you plan to use energy for scrap-assisted uu production, then each scaffold can process ~16 pieces of junk, so lag increase is comparatively small.


    As i said, treegens seem to be very potent, but not overpowered. Different people, different situations, different servers and mods = different ways of eu generation used.

    Another thing I noticed. Forestry electric gens are extremely ineffective. They give 8000eu per biomass bucket. But if you burn said biomass in bioengine, it will give 50 000 MJ. Which can be converter to 125 000 EU with Transformers mod. 15.625 times more. So, if you have Forestry and Transformers (or any other bc->ic energy converter, actually), you can get thousands of EU/t from single farm, from saplings alone, and just recycle wood (in slabs) or something.


    Unless I miscalculated something, that is. What I know is that farm produce roughly 0.3 surplus sapling per second, and consumes below 30mj/t for itself. Apples are enough to supply mulch for fermenting, but not nearly enough apple cider, so I used water (0.8 buckets/sapling) instead. Using honey will improve energy output by 50% (1.2 buckets/sapling). So, 570 mj/t = 1425 eu/t. Hmm, not ridiculous, like i hoped, but still much. And no laggy scaffolds (laggy slabs instead - for recyclers).

    • Official Post
    Quote from baturinsky

    Another thing I noticed. Forestry electric gens are extremely ineffective. They give 8000eu per biomass bucket. But if you burn said biomass in bioengine, it will give 50 000 MJ. Which can be converter to 125 000 EU with Transformers mod. 15.625 times more. So, if you have Forestry and Transformers (or any other bc->ic energy converter, actually), you can get thousands of EU/t from single farm, from saplings alone, and just recycle wood (in slabs) or something.


    Unless I miscalculated something, that is. What I know is that farm produce roughly 0.3 surplus sapling per second, and consumes below 30mj/t for itself. Apples are enough to supply mulch for fermenting, but not nearly enough apple cider, so I used water (0.8 buckets/sapling) instead. Using honey will improve energy output by 50% (1.2 buckets/sapling). So, 570 mj/t = 1425 eu/t. Hmm, not ridiculous, like i hoped, but still much. And no laggy scaffolds (laggy slabs instead - for recyclers).

    Foresty bioengines + BC/IC Converter = OP.
    Example : Bioengines + Milk = 40000 MJ = 100k EU! [One bucket lasts for about 30-32 minutes]
    Make a small setup of 16 engines with autorefill system (RP system) and it is more than enough to power a small workshop

    Quote from baturinsky

    Another thing I noticed. Forestry electric gens are extremely ineffective. They give 8000eu per biomass bucket. But if you burn said biomass in bioengine, it will give 50 000 MJ. Which can be converter to 125 000 EU with Transformers mod. 15.625 times more. So, if you have Forestry and Transformers (or any other bc->ic energy converter, actually), you can get thousands of EU/t from single farm, from saplings alone, and just recycle wood (in slabs) or something...



    Well, part of the reason behind that is due to the fact that the outputs are based off seperate energy systems. What you found was a rather jarring exploit with power converters, and I wouldn't be surprised if Biomass in Bio Gen's receives a well deserved buff(or biogas engine nerf) or something to that effect.


    You may want to try a hybird renewable system: Where either solar/water/wind create EU to power electric engines for loggers/fermenters/furnaces, and then feed those products into biogas engines/generators for additional power...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

    If you are adding in other mods, such as Forestry, has anyone looked at the value of Sugarcane?


    By using the surgane harvester and at max size, you can generate a good amount of either EU or MJ.


    Some rough numbers: 21x21 square of sugarcane in checkerboard pattern (50% efficient, but it looks nice) minus spots for infrastructure (harvester and tubing) = 218 sugarcane. Average growth time:68 sec (from minecraftwiki) = about 3.2 cane per second [If you go close to max efficiency (~75% or so) you get 4.9 cane/second and can multiply the outputs by 1.5] The added benefit of this is the ability to compact the height, if space is an issue.


    1 cane = 120 eu @ 10eu/t: Generator : so roughly 2 generators needed to process 1 field = 20eu/t


    However, with processing it gets better


    1 cane = 0.1 biomass = 800 eu @ 8 eu/t (or if refined to biofuel in a still 970 eu @ 16 eu/t) : so about 9 bio generators running biofuel at 16 eu/t = 144 eu / t


    And, this can be done with a height of 6 (base, water/sand, 3x cane, air), and stacked as high as you like.


    Or, 1 cane = 5000 mj (.1 buckets of fuel, which is worth 50k mj), so this setup produces about 15,000 mj/s (800 mj/t, but requires 160 biogas engines and the fermenter and harvesters require energy), which converted with transformers mod = 1875eu/t




    Note, my numbers may be off, but it seemed like sugarcane was a good energy source, the only issue is getting the initial 220 or so sugarcane and sand to plant.

    I don't see anything about "growth time:68 sec" in minecraftwiki. Instead, I see "sugar cane grows rather slowly. An individual sugar cane block goes through 16 phases of growth"
    So, it's more like 19 minutes per one new block, which is too slow. Also, you will need fermenter. Trees are dropping apples that you can make into mulch. For sugarcane you will need separate fermenter production.


    So, I suggest you try it in test world with NEI or creative mode.


    Other ways of Forestry "abusing" I see: pumpkin seeds and milk.
    You can make seed oil from pumpkins and burn it for three mj/t, or burn milk for 1 mj/t. Last one is low, but one cow can provide insane number of engines with milk. Automating milking can be tricky, though, I only could do that with CC turtle and logistic pipes. Pumpkins you can get from Forestry pumpkin farm, but also from ic2 farm - they grow fast and you can collect them very fast by just walking with right button down.


    And, also there is a ic2 farm/forestry addon
    http://www.mod-buildcraft.com/…rops-plugin-for-forestry/
    It harvests in 21x21x10 area, so can cover over 2000 crops (in 5 layers).
    If you breed pumpkins (or wheat, etc) for high gain and growth, it can make quite a huge surplus of energy-convertable stuff. Or iron,gold,etc.

    I used this forestry crop addon for a short time. It feels more OP than EE. I'd consider power converters to be also OP if they are used alongside forestry, simple peat fired engine can provide quite a lot of energy from one peat (which is about 3/8 tin or 1/10 beeswax). Beeswax is very cheap if you get an apiarist to your home, you get one comb for two wheat. I build 2 km of railways just to bring one to my testificate dungeon his new home, but unfortunately he suffocated. Normal reed farm can have quite high production of reeds, with double-decker design you can have about 690 growing reeds (80 % efficiency with some blocks used for harvester/engine). One cane is 200 biofuel, not 100. In one of my earlier worlds I used 4 sugarcane farms with one wheat farm for compost (5 wheat -> 4 compost, 1 -> 1 with recycling seeds to dirt) and it powered about 5 biogenerators with biofuel with a good excess for other BC/forestry stuff. I think if I would use some converting mod it could work with really nice output.


    Edit: You don't need sand, dirt works equally well.


    Edit2: Here is a picture of my old setup. In the end it was just a biofuel facility (after I started auto crafting UU to solar arrays). Sorry for overall architecture, but it was my first world with forestry and I was more interested in testing contraptions.

    Quote from baturinsky

    I don't see anything about "growth time:68 sec" in minecraftwiki. Instead, I see "sugar cane grows rather slowly. An individual sugar cane block goes through 16 phases of growth"
    So, it's more like 19 minutes per one new block, which is too slow. Also, you will need fermenter. Trees are dropping apples that you can make into mulch. For sugarcane you will need separate fermenter production.

    Here is from the wiki regarding sugarcane growth:
    "It advances to the next phase whenever it
    gets a block
    tick    , which happens at random intervals."


    and Regarding Block tick:
    "Because random block ticks are granted randomly, there is no way
    to predict when a block will get its next tick. The median
    time between ticks is 47 seconds. That is, there is a 50%
    chance that the interval will be shorter than 47 seconds, and a 50%
    chance it will be longer than 47. However, sometimes it is much
    longer or shorter: for example, there is a 1% chance that the
    interval will be over five minutes. On average, blocks are
    updated every 68.27 seconds"


    I look at it as using a moistener and spare wheat vs. using the squeezer and spare apples for mulch vs tree farm.


    And I had a nice farm (7 stacked farms) in 1.2.5 that was able to have almost constant cane production, easily able to provide enough cane to keep 4 fermenters fully occupied, with overflow cane going into a generator. I will have to play around with that mod for forestry IC2 crops , to see if I can make it just as effectively in 1.3.2 (although without redpower, I might have to redo some piping)


    To Zjarek:
    Ah, I based my calculations off 100 millibuckets per cane, but that makes it even better. And true, dirt would probably be easier, especially when modifying the sugarcane area, and for ease of getting it.

    I think it's possible to mass-produce wood without forestry, or power converters. Just with a more complex setup. And fueling filler(or quarry) that will replace logger can be somewhat more problematic. Lots and lots of stirlings. But Forestry is fun:)

    Wood production is balanced with new apiaries/alvearies (one alveary uses more than a 6 stacks of wood, one proven frame uses 16 wood). I wonder what will happen when arbioculture gets implemented, there is already teaser in NEI with new plank types. For tree chopping there is always computer craft, felling program (for EBXL fir trees) was my first "hello world" lua script.

    Quote from Zjarek

    Wood production is balanced with new apiaries/alvearies (one alveary uses more than a 6 stacks of wood, one proven frame uses 16 wood). I wonder what will happen when arbioculture gets implemented, there is already teaser in NEI with new plank types. For tree chopping there is always computer craft, felling program (for EBXL fir trees) was my first "hello world" lua script.


    I think Forestry wood production is balanced with arboretum in mind, not the crazy sapling carpet farm I use. And, my limiting factor for alvearies was wax more than wood, but it is probably because I suck at bee breeding.


    I know that, like, half of CC programs written are about falling trees:) But again, they are usually oriented on less massive/dense forests.


    Gotta try using quarry. It will waste a lot on cutting leaves, instead of trunks, but could still work...

    couple relevant screenshots: imgur album
    built in 1.3.2 on a private server.
    8 cobble gens from thermal expansion that drop cobble directly into 8 recyclers that then have their scrap pumped into 2 generators via advanced insertion pipes.
    one needs about 4 recyclers per generator. Would have been easier with tubes on the generator side. the advanced insertion drop stuff once in a while for some odd reason. had to build an obsidien catch system.
    Currently makes 12 EU/t after recycler overheat.


    basically built it for two reasons:
    1: Because I could
    2: needed some power at night.


    probably a hell of a lot more expensive than other day and night generator alternatives but it was fun to build and tweak.


    edit: just had to add a 9th recycler to the setup to keep the second generator running all the time. so down to 11 EU/t now.