[GregTech-5][1.7.10-FORGE-1355+][Unofficial but approved Port][Stable] Even GT5 Experimental is slowly getting stable.

    Quote from willis936


    It's not meant to be cheap :D


    I think the pipe flows are relatively balanced as they are now but my only qualm is that for really high end designs the upper limit per pipe is somewhat... limiting.


    Maxing the output hatches on an LHE (5 I believe) and using all huge tungstensteel pipes (48 B/s) results in a max throughput of 240 B/s (wowzers). A 2 B/s lava LHE as it behaves now (which may be wrong) outputs 160 B/s of SHS. It's still possible to get all of the steam out but it requires 5 of the highest tier pipes. This isn't really an issue and requires high builds to have high end costs (and induce pipe routing nightmares).


    Did you confirm that? Tungstensteel pipes have 48 B/s capacity, but, as Spwnx said, they empty only half of their capacity to next container, what means that they actually transport 24B/S.
    If that's really true, you would need 10 of those pipes. That's why I think they are way too expensives...

    I haven't confirmed that maxed setup but I can confirm that a single huge titanium fluid pipe can handle 20 B/s which is more than half of its rated throughput.

    Quote from Drawfox

    ?(
    ...


    Pyureeeeeee!


    At least I'm pretty sure that's the case....


    It's so close to half the rated input that a few percentage may be in the wash. My case really isn't a good test.



    I just tried swapping between a fluid regulator set to 1 B/t and a huge titanium pipe and within my ability to do stopwatch numbers they have the same output (500kEU in 12 seconds).


    They both took 49 seconds to fill 2 MEU. I'm fairly confident in these results considering there's a 4% difference between (38400 mB/s) / 2 and 20 B/s and if I had a one second error that would still only be 2%.


    https://imgur.com/a/TJy0R


    Also these are the excess numbers. In all cases I'm running 16 MV centrifuges for the pahoehoe lava with 100% duty cycle (there's a buffer built up, typically only about 10 run on average) as well as the fluid regulators (which is under the noise floor here). Don't worry 40 B/s of SHS produces more than 2040 EU/t. Two sets of turbines are running: one has a single fluid regulator between the LHE and the turbine and the second one has a fluid regulator and the variable block tested here. All four turbines are using tungstensteel rotors (20000 mB/s optimal flow, 115% efficiency).



    New test with the excess lava completely drained and the entire system at a nominal steady state. In all cases I verified that the rate that SHS was being pulled from the LHE matched how much was produced. A webpage stopwatch with alt+tab (gonna say about half second percision) was used to measure the time to charge a 10 MEU lap xtal.
    fluid regulator run 1: 243.883 s, 2050 EU/t
    fluid regulator run 2: 244.101 s, 2048 EU/t
    huge titanium pipe run 1: 272.564 s, 1834 EU/t
    huge titanium pipe run 2: 271.721 s, 1840 EU/t
    huge tungstensteel pipe run 1: 274.074 s, 1824 EU/t
    huge titanium pipe run 3: 271.170 s, 1844 EU/t
    huge tungstensteel pipe run 2: 271.637 s, 1841 EU/t



    That's a roughly 10% difference. A bit more than the expected 4% but maybe I messed up in an assumption of how much was lost or in the testing methodology (I tried to pay pretty close attention to the details here though).



    In conclusion: I think you're right lol.


    After trying with a huge tungstensteel pipe: if my only issue was the half throughput due to internal tank size then I wouldn't be losing 10% on the huge tungstensteel... I'm thinking some is lost due to sloshing between the input hatch and the pipe. I wouldn't think this is possible since typically machines are one way valves for fluids. I guess hatches are an exception. Huge titanium run 3 uses a shutter set to output only on the pipe side facing the input hatch.


    Nevermind that was wrong too. huge tungstensteel pipe run 2 uses a shutter input only facing the fluid regulator and a shutter output only facing the input hatch. If this doesn't work I can only assume GT pipes suck.




    It gets weirder. At this point I'm no longer thinking any fluid is getting lost since I've looked at the return distilled water pipe and it's still full (I made every pipe segment's tank be full). If steam were being lost then this should not be full. Perhaps there's some issue with when the flow rate of the turbine is calculated relative to when the GT pipe moves liquid (and how much liquid is moved since it has this fill up/empty mechanic).

    BloodAsp


    All tiers of Input/Output hatches/buses has same tooltip. Could you please make them different by tiers?

    Ideal Industrial Assembly (IIA) - my pretty hard industrial modpack based on GT5.09

    Идеальная Индустриальная Сборка (ИИС) - довольно сложный сугубо индустриальный модпак, базирующийся на GT5.09

    http://sapientmail.wixsite.com/minecraft

    I got a NOT MY FAULT EXCEPTION from gregtech, saying that I have a mod which adds a recipe with null output, but I don't know what mod it is.
    How can I find it out?
    Since it isn't outputting mod name.
    Besides removing mods one by one.

    Quote from willis936

    ...(TL;BIR)


    Wow... My head is spinning...
    So, the conclusion is that those pipes aren't reliable? Well, for now I think I'll stop using them.


    I was looking at you screenshots, does the fluid regulator accepts any voltage? Those are really big wires;


    Can anyone tell me a good Fluid Pipe Mod?
    I found and EnderIO (weak, kinda cheap but configurable), Mekanism (Cheap and OP), BC (extremely weak);
    Maybe I'll go with Mekanism, because It don't requires any machines, and I don't want to start in another mod tech tree now...

    Quote from Drawfox

    ?(
    ...


    Pyureeeeeee!


    I tried to test. Couldn't make heads or tails of it in the time I had.



    Quote from Sapient

    BloodAsp


    All tiers of Input/Output hatches/buses has same tooltip. Could you please make them different by tiers?


    I did this already, I just need to post a pull request for Blood

    That's cool, thanks.
    I TRIED to look at the code, but couldn't find anything about the pipe export half of its content. But to be fair, I the code is waaaaay more complex than I thought...
    Need... put brain... refrigerator...


    My partner did his own throughput tests with a better test methodology than me (used AHK) and found that the pipes do transmit their rated amount in the case of the internal tanks being full and the supply being fully fed.


    My final conclusion is that while the GT pipes don't lose any liquid when they shouldn't they also don't update in a way that's good enough to be used for feeding turbines. That is to say: use fluid regulators and if you have to go over 20 B/s use a second input hatch. Fluid regulators should always be adjacent to the turbine input hatches. If you're using GT pipes along the way it's probably a good idea to have some sort of buffer tank (a decent sized input hatch + fast export pump should be enough). I haven't (and probably won't) test if this is good enough or if you have to also overproduce for a short period so you don't operate too close to an empty buffer. These are the kinds of solutions that are called "hackish" and if you're messing with a turbine you really should put it right next to your steam/plasma source and use only fluid regulators (or enderIO or mekanism and put them wherever if you hate fun).



    Also sorry about the structure of that post. It's quite scattered and hard to interpret. It's lab notebook style.

    Hey Pyure: here's a little food for thought on the LHE SHS output


    If the SHS output from the LHE is reduced to half then in the case of using a two pairs of normal tungstensteel turbines (1.15 efficiency) you would get 8.625 EU per hot coolant. IC2 stirling engines give 10 EU per hot coolant. You would need to use large tungstensteel turbines (1.4 efficiency) to get better efficiency than the stirling engines (11 EU per hot coolant). This just seems wrong to me.


    You'd also end up losing half of the distilled water fed to the LHE unless the normal steam turbine output twice as much distilled water (bad) or the HP turbine had two outputs (one for steam and one for distilled water). I think things are working pretty well right now considering you need a lot more fuel and a lot more material to make SHS work. It gives decent incentive to make cool, big setups without being overpowered. Right now I'm aiming to have 7 ic2 fluid reactors producing 900 Hu/s each (8 iridium neutron reflectors and 4 quad thorium cells in each) to make 6.3 B/s of hot coolant. Using large tungstensteel turbines and only producing/consuming 60 B/s of SHS this will produce 6.3 kEU/t. That's a LOT of power but the scale of this setup is immense. Hundreds of iridium, thousands of other metals, ages of AE2 crafts, hours spent designing and handling the logistics. It doesn't exceed fusion but it fills a nice hole.



    One thing that just occurred to me for adding an output to the HP turbine for distilled water: how would the multimachine know which output hatch was for which fluid? You'd need to add support for placing hatches on the top/bottom for this specifically. Idk it doesn't seem to fit.

    Quote from willis936

    Also sorry about the structure of that post. It's quite scattered and hard to interpret. It's lab notebook style.


    No problem, you are being really helpful, thank you very much. (it was a "Too Long, But I read" BTW).
    I hadn't time this week, if so would do some tests as well.
    But I think I'll start to use regulators as you say, it's easier and simpler.
    I do really like everything about GT Pipes, their recipe makes sense, they have a good capacity per tier, a nice design, the covers possibilities, etc... Their only problem is that backflow thing, and that output information, that I still don't am sure if is half or full.


    Good thing a Large Tungstensteel boiler output matches a Huge tungstensteel Turbine optimal flow.
    As soon I make one, I 'll put them together, and problem is over. :D


    When you say "SHS output from LHE reduced to half" are you talking about the way it outputs 50% SHS as opposed to 100% Steam, or are you talking about reducing the threshold with Integrated Circuits from 2000 to ~1000?


    Can you please confirm for me that you're using the SHS properly? The loop for distilled water is:

    Code
    LHE ----(SHS)---> HP Turbine ---(Steam)---->Turbine ---(Water) ---> LHE


    Given that's the case, can you break down in detail how stirling engines are better than non-tunsgensteel turbines?


    "how would the multimachine know which output hatch was for which fluid?"
    None of the multiblock turbines output more than one type of fluid. If you're feeding SHS into a HP Turbine, it outputs Steam, which you then dump into a second (non HP) turbine, which outputs distilled water. This amount of distilled water is equal to the amount of distilled water that created the SHS in the first place. I've tested this.

    Well, seems that pipes really transfer they full capacity, as described on the tooltip.


    I made a test with two Huge Bronze Pipes (9600mb/sec, with shutters) attached to a Quantum tank, and a fluid regulator set a 480mb/T (9600mb/sec) attached to another Quantum Tank.
    Both tanks had shutters and machine controllers, set to be open by the same lever.


    On the first test, I activated the lever, and after a few seconds, deactivated.
    Result: both tanks had the exactly same amount.


    On a second test, I let it running for 60 seconds.
    Result: the piped tank had 576,000L, which is exactly the listed pipe capacity: 9600L/sec.
    The regulated tank had 578,400L, equal to 482mb/t ( or 480mb/t for 1205 ticks, which means that I took 60,25 seconds to close the valve).


    This means that, while their medium output is about the same, there's a little difference on the frequency that they output.
    I don't know if it's enough to affect the turbine functioning, but if I have time tomorrow, I might set two turbines to measure their total output (I probably will).

    Quote from Pyure

    When you say "SHS output from LHE reduced to half" are you talking about the way it outputs 50% SHS as opposed to 100% Steam, or are you talking about reducing the threshold with Integrated Circuits from 2000 to ~1000?


    I'm saying that if you put 999 mB/s of lava into an LHE with no IC it will output 79,920 steam/s.
    If you put 1001 mB/s of lava into an LHE with no IC it will output 80,080 SHS/s.
    As I understood the wiki it should output 40,040 SHS/s in that second case


    Quote from Pyure

    Can you please confirm for me that you're using the SHS properly? The loop for distilled water is:

    Code
    LHE ----(SHS)---> HP Turbine ---(Steam)---->Turbine ---(Water) ---> LHE


    That is indeed the case.


    Quote from Pyure

    Given that's the case, can you break down in detail how stirling engines are better than non-tunsgensteel turbines?


    Liquid heat exchanger with 10 heat conductors takes in 100 hot coolant/s and outputs 100 Hu/something. The stirling engine takes in 100 Hu/something and outputs 50 EU/t (1000 EU/s).
    That is 1000 EU for 100 hot coolant or 10 EU per hot coolant.


    Let's say an LHE is fed 4000 hot coolant/second to produce 20000 SHS/s (half of what it produces now, what the wiki suggests is correct behavior). HP+normal Turbine with tungstensteel rotors will produce 20000 EU/s * 1.5 (for regular steam turbine) * 1.15 (efficiency) is 1725 EU/t (34500 EU/s).
    That is 34500 EU for 4000 hot coolant or 8.625 EU per hot coolant.
    As it is right now it outputs 17.25 EU per hot coolant.


    Quote from Pyure

    "how would the multimachine know which output hatch was for which fluid?"
    None of the multiblock turbines output more than one type of fluid. If you're feeding SHS into a HP Turbine, it outputs Steam, which you then dump into a second (non HP) turbine, which outputs distilled water. This amount of distilled water is equal to the amount of distilled water that created the SHS in the first place. I've tested this.


    I know. I was suggesting ways to fix the issue of losing half of the water if the LHE was "fixed" to output half as much when in SHS mode. Another, more clean solution would be to just make the distilled water requirements half when in SHS mode.