[GregTech-5][1.7.10-FORGE-1355+][Unofficial but approved Port][Stable] Even GT5 Experimental is slowly getting stable.

see if we all stick it out we can come to an agreement, even if it's to agree to disagree.

my only other request is to find a balanced way to implement it for the whole community, not just implementing it as a tool for modpack makes, I make my own small mod packs with less than 80 active mods, trying to only add mods that will enhance my playing not bypass a GT feature, or Nerf. I am terrible at reading, so looking threw long ass configs to see what I should turn on or off is very ruff on me. I think as a whole we all have stated that all burners should cause pollution. all multiblocks with mufflers should as well. now i disagree on lava boilers because they are using the already hot lava to heat the water, not burning a carbon source, but for balance and progressing on to better power source I see it as understandable. So when implementing the pollution please chose a balanced way to set things on or off for noobs and idiots like me

Quote from Pyure

Latest version?
Any integrated circuits?

5.08.29. No integrated circuits.

Quote from bear989

my only other request is to find a balanced way to implement it for the whole community, not just implementing it as a tool for modpack makes,

Explain "a balanced way to set things on or off" please? I'm not sure what you're requesting here.

The notion of making it configurable is the only way to make it balanced for a "whole community". Since the hardcore players want stuff like lava nerfed into the ground, and other players want it completely left alone. Is balance finding the middle ground, or trying to give everyone a truly positive experience?

For what its worth, I'm open to leaving it in an extremely friendly configuration by default, and letting people crank up the difficulty themselves if they want to.
I'm also open to looking into different overall mode packages, similar to Forestry, so that you can just change one thing to make a big swathe of changes. But that would be a later change.

Quote from willis936

Pyure: I'm getting exactly 60 B/s of SHS for 4.5 B/s HC. I don't remember your numbers but I was under the impression that "double" would be 60 B/s SHS for 6 B/s HC

Weird.
Going by the numbers I posted several pages ago, if I provide 4500 mb/s HC, I'd expect to get 4500 / 2 * 20 = 45000 mb/S of SHS.

I'll be home in 6 hours, I'll have to test it again. :\

How are you getting your numbers-per-second?
When you mouse-over the steam in the gui of the output hatch, what value do you see in the tooltip?

Quote from SpwnX

Balance would be having all energy sources (that apply) be affected equally by pollution and slightly inequally based on realism (for example a diesel generator being a bit more pollutant than a gas generator, but not that much more).
The heavy differences (nerfing lava to ground or left alone or even making a certain energy source pollution free) should be done by players (modpack makers) themselves via configs.

On paper that sounds lovely, in practice its open to a lot of speculation, and the result isn't necessarily going to make Bear happy.

I have apologize again but what do you call hardcore? making everything as hard and miserable on yourself as possible? I see hardcore GT as using it as implomented by Greg or now Ya'll. not using other mods to bypass mechanics and nerfs, or exploiting vanilla mechanics, like iron and gold farms, un-maned spawner traps, and so on.

balance is up to you and blood to decide, we as players can and should state our feelings, but as developers/coders the implementation is up to you.

I would have all coal boilers create pollution that needs vented, multiblock boilers would as a rule create less than the equivalent of single block boilers, so there is another reason to upgrade to them.
bronze blast furnace creates more per operation than an IBF
all machines with a muffler hatch needs vented out side
high pressure lava boilers should create more that the equivalent multiblock boilers

also:
bronze machines exhaust steam rather than pollution, so they don't need to be vented outside, but the exhaust should have the ability to be collected as dirty water
and electric machines don't create air pollution, but ore washers and chem reactors, ETC. could produce a dirty water that needs to be cleaned,

and just to throw it out there someone address the damn Tin issue please, I have spent a week trying to find enuff to make a turbine and ore washer

Mhhh...I am only a beginner in modding, but is a waterblock only a block? So changing a waterblock to a pollutedwaterblock when hit with pollution is a simple thing? The water then( so i think) comes through pumps->pipes to a machine. When this machine now gets not the right fluid it does not function any longer until pump/pipe is again full of "vanilla" water.... on the other hand, changing water in (Multiblock)tanks could be difficult ( i think).....

i think i would like to do a little mod( just for fun) to see how it could work. Maybe one with greater skills could improve my mess  ?

ya see that is where I feel I play hardcore, I want to mine my metals not grow them or breed bees to do so, I may breed the crops or bees to that level but only to say i did it or add a tiny piece to a large whole.

thanks for the suggestion though. I am actually thinking about drilling core samples randomly in the hills to find hidden veins with a BC mining well. But that's extreme measures for my play style.

I am a tunnel rat and explorer for resources. stone and gem pick axes all the way, till I can make an IC2 drill. I'd use GT drills if they didn't just die, replacing a drill head or battery is understandable, but trowing the whole drill away cause of a broken bit doesn't work for me.

Quote from SpwnX

Those unhappy with the defaults can always use the config though.

The default should cater to the majority (semi-hardcore players) that would like pollution to affect things, but not drastically and any consequences should be remediable with a cost.

I'm not convinced this helps bear at all. His point (and its valid) is that not everyone wants or is able to wade through configurations. Its not always 100% enough to say "you can just config it."

Generally speaking, its a good enough solution for me that that's exactly what I'd say, but if even the GT home crowd finds it lacking and there are plausible alternatives, I'm open to adding more user-friendly options.

In this case, I might ask a user to open a config and change the GLOBAL_POLLUTION_IMPACT from "LOW" to "MEDIUM" or "HIGH" or something, rather than tweaking a bunch of settings individually.

Quote from bear989

I have apologize again but what do you call hardcore? making everything as hard and miserable on yourself as possible? I see hardcore GT as using it as implomented by Greg or now Ya'll. not using other mods to bypass mechanics and nerfs, or exploiting vanilla mechanics, like iron and gold farms, un-maned spawner traps, and so on.

I feel the same way. In a lot of areas you just can't do much about it. Some exploits are just universal and we try to pretend they don't exist.

One thing I'm constantly monitoring is areas where greg wasn't 100% perfect (it happens believe it or not) and there are now in-mod exploits. Another thing is extremely common cross-mod exploits.

Do I care what GT + RotaryCraft exploits exist? Nope. (Everything+RotaryCraft is an exploit.)
Do I care about GT + Buildcraft? Yep, because these mods grew up together and their interactions happen an awful, awful lot. (And no, its not my overriding concern, just something I have to keep an eye on)

Quote from Pyure

I agree, but iirc the machine works on energy-per-time. To make it the same amount of eU per item, either the energy needs to drop, or the speed needs to increase. Often we can't make the energy drop due to tiering reasons, which leaves us with increasing the speed.

Than it could be done by two ways
1. 4x time 4x energy by tier, but if time is less than 1 tick - it is = 1 tick.
2. same, but it takes xN items from input and makes xN products to output every tick, where N = round(1/current process time).

Actually i don't think someone will make so high tier machines to have less-than-one-tick production speed. Even 1 per tick is much more than needed. So MV/HV should be enough for most reсipes. Except may be scanner/replicator.

Quote from Sapient

Than it could be done by two ways
1. 4x time 4x energy by tier, but if time is less than 1 tick - it is = 1 tick.
2. same, but it takes xN items from input and makes xN products to output every tick, where N = round(1/current process time).

Actually i don't think someone will make so high tier machines to have less-than-one-tick production speed. Even 1 per tick is much more than needed. So MV/HV should be enough for most reсipes. Except may be scanner/replicator.

If you can get everyone to agree that quadrupling the speed of each machine per tier is kosher I'll do that. (You won't :p)

Quote from Pyure

If you can get everyone to agree that quadrupling the speed of each machine per tier is kosher I'll do that. (You won't :p)

It could be added just as option in config, so everyone can choose.