Explanation on the changes to wind mills

1st Official Post

    Anyone figure out what exactly was changed? The eu reader is giving me garbage for readings at some points during the day, and then others I get readings that are roughly half of what I was getting pre 1.337 update.

    I'll have to take a look at my wind farm in the morning, see what I'm getting. I was getting 500 EU/t average from 16 mills before.
    But keep in mind that wind output is not steady, it does fluctuate.

    Likely it, as all the other non-water-mill sources, was also nerfed somehow. It wouldn't be off base to guess that windmills now operate best during storms and hardly at all on a good day.

    Yeah, when I installed the wind farm a few weeks ago, I got 500 EU/t on the input to the MFSU. Now, I get anywhere from 120-200 EU/t on average.
    So, it appears that there was a stealth nerf on windmills. No worries - it's still more than sufficient to power my workshop there.

    Quote from HeadHunter67

    Yeah, when I installed the wind farm a few weeks ago, I got 500 EU/t on the input to the MFSU. Now, I get anywhere from 120-200 EU/t on average.
    So, it appears that there was a stealth nerf on windmills. No worries - it's still more than sufficient to power my workshop there.


    Still sounds worth it as it's a power all of the time sort of thing.

    Oh, certainly - it's still a good source of carefree power... this must be what the "Reworked Windmill mechanics" line in the patch notes meant.

    The problem with this nerf is that now people will build even more solar/water/wind farms and/or larger versions of the same. To make up for the losses.
    That is IMHO though...


    One solution would be to have a hard limit on the number of solar/wind/water generators one could make. Say 128 max of each type?
    This doesn't apply to SSP but i fear for SMP and server admins straight out removing the free power generators because they LAG the server and are free power. (Counter intuitive to the economy of SMP)

    I said "up to" - meaning that is the high-end result I get from using the EU meter at the point where the HV wire enters the transformer to the MFSU.
    This is the one spot in the system where I can get consistent results - there's no way to get a basis of comparison by scanning each mill.


    I did not mean to imply that this is the output each tick - it's because it's transformed up to EV for the long trip down to the house. But because the setup did not change, we can use that point to determine how much it got nerfed ion 1.337"A" (and that it was fixed in 1.337b)

    Quote from HeadHunter67

    I said "up to" - meaning that is the high-end result I get from using the EU meter at the point where the HV wire enters the transformer to the MFSU.
    This is the one spot in the system where I can get consistent results - there's no way to get a basis of comparison by scanning each mill.


    I did not mean to imply that this is the output each tick - it's because it's transformed up to EV for the long trip down to the house. But because the setup did not change, we can use that point to determine how much it got nerfed ion 1.337"A" (and that it was fixed in 1.337b)

    You should measure where all the wires from the windgens come together before you transform it to EV. Else you get really inconsistent results.

    I understand - I know that when it's EV, it can be 500, or 0, given that it waits until it has 2048 EU to send as a packet down the line. I was merely casually observing the maximum output on that section at two different intervals. If that maximum varies, one can estimate how much the output was nerfed.


    I don't think it was Alblaka's intent to nerf wind power - iot is powerful when done right but has fluctuations and is not widely used - and that would likely explain why he reversed that change.

    Well still something went horribly wrong if you are measuring 500 eu/tick from 16 windgens. Either thats a bug or you didnt measured it correctly. Not something to compare other stuff to. The section before its transformed to EV is many times more consistent and relliable than after.

    Quote from Rick

    Well still something went horribly wrong if you are measuring 500 eu/tick from 16 windgens.


    Nothing "went horribly wrong". A 2048 EU packet was sent down the line and lost 48 EU. The measurement over the previous 3 ticks would have been 0, and the 4th tick would result in an average reading of 500 EU. Pretty simple math.
    Just telling you what I saw.

    Quote from HeadHunter67


    Nothing "went horribly wrong". A 2048 EU packet was sent down the line and lost 48 EU. The measurement over the previous 3 ticks would have been 0, and the 4th tick would result in an average reading of 500 EU. Pretty simple math.
    Just telling you what I saw.

    So it proves nothing because you measured it wrong you cannot claim that your windgen farm produces less eu with such data.

    Quote from Rick

    So it proves nothing because you measured it wrong you cannot claim that your windgen farm produces less eu with such data.


    It doesn't matter where you measure it, if you are looking for the maximum result. If you get a reading of up to 500 EU, then after an update you can't ever get more than 200 EU at that spot, there has been a change.
    Your doubt does not influence the reality of the situation - wind power was decreased (per the 1.337 update notes), and then fixed (per the 1.337b update notes).


    Ultimately, how much is academic - Alblaka documented a change, and a reversal of the change. It was lower for a while but now it is back to previous levels. Debating the whys and wherefores does not change that.

    You dont understand even if they windgen farm would produce 1 eu/tick total it will still be possible to measure up to 2k eu/tick they way you do it. You must measure it before you transform it to EV. Measure it while its on LV for accurate results. 16 windgens just cant produce 500 eu/tick thats ridiculously op.

    Did you even bother to READ anything else I wrote? I didn't say every tick, I said that was the maximum output in any given tick and clearly explained why.
    If you can't comprehend what a 2048 EU packet over a 60m HV wire works out to after measuring for 4 ticks, then please don't try to correct me on anything.


    I notice a couple of you telling me what I "cant" get out of it, buit none of you seems to know what amount I should get out of it - or what I could have gotthen out of it before 1.337b.
    It's clear there was a change (as stated in the update notes), that's the point of this thread. It's also clear (from the update notesfor B) that it was changed back. My measurements support this conclusion, but even if you contest them, it doesn't change the fact that things were changed:

    Quote


    v1.337 (IC²)
    Reworked Windmill mechanics


    v1.337b (IC²)
    Fixed Windmill GUI and increased Windmill gain slightly


    Why are we even continuing to have this discussion?