[Suggestion][1.103] Change the way Redstone is consumed

1st Official Post

    I recently learned that you can actually power machines using Redstone, which is a great thing at early game, since you can immediately build a Macerator, power it with Redstone and double your ores right from the start. The bad thing however is that one piece of Redstone is consumed as soon as the energy level is not at 100%, so if you put in 64 Redstones, they are gone before you can say "Oh shit!".


    Therefore I suggest that in general the usage of Redstone in all machines changes to:


    Code
    if ((machine.getPower() == 0)) || ((machine.getMaxPowerStorage() - machine.getPower()) >= item.getConsumePower()) {
  machine.consumeItem(item);
}



    PS: The same could be added to the basic generator, as it will eat up material even if it is full and therefore waste the material.

    • Official Post

    Not to mention that the Geothermal Generator + Pump has the same Problem (500-1000 EU instead of 30000 EU from one Lavasource if overfilled). I say that here, because there wasnt an answer to the Supportthread, and this Problem is releated to that. (And because of Richards current Signature)

    Quote from FenixR

    Wasteful, you want to use redstone at the start only for getting these Single Use Batteries, until you craft your first legal generator and forget that SUB and Redstone as EU in machine ever existed.


    If you calculate the EU cost for creating these (besides that you already need half a base to be able to create them), it turns out that it is a lot more efficient (in both time and material consumed) to just burn the materials used to create them in a generator.

    Quote from Alblaka

    The last time I started a world, admittedly two versions ago, redstone was working fine as fuel, providing 1 operation per piece of redstone. Eventually some port or enet rework messed that up, I will take a look into it.


    Just created a test world to verify that, and I realized I was mistaken. Sorry for that.


    Once you insert redstone into the machine it will immediately consume 2. Since I had the issue with the basic generator before, I was under the impression this is the same problem. However the machine just stored 1k EU as it seems, although the energy-meter is at 100% already if you just put in 500 EU. Redstone works fine with both machines and a Batbox, both slowly consume Redstone whenever needed.



    Edit: Just did some more testing with the SUB since it was mentioned above.
    Setup: 2 separate Macerators (to make sure no power is left) both with no power attached and some ore to process.
    Insert 2 Redstone dusts (1k EU) -> Macerator processes 2 ores as expected.
    Insert 1 SUB (1k EU as well) in the other Macerator and it only processes 1 ore then stops at about 1/4 of the 2nd ore.

    Edited 2 times, last by Two ().

    Thats because redstone is not always worth 500 EU. It is worth 500 EU in storage blocks, but exactly 1 operation in machines. Macerator needs 625 EU for one operation, so it is effective to actually put it right into the machine, while putting it into electric furnace or extractor is actually waste.

    Quote from raGan

    Thats because redstone is not always worth 500 EU. It is worth 500 EU in storage blocks, but exactly 1 operation in machines. Macerator needs 625 EU for one operation, so it is effective to actually put it right into the machine, while putting it into electric furnace or extractor is actually waste.


    *Checks Wiki*
    *Changes Wiki*
    Right... it even says so in the Wiki... ;)

    Quote from raGan

    Macerator needs 625 800 EU for one operation[...]

    Fixed that for you. Though I believe it was 625 in an earlier version of IC2.


    This also explains why SU batteries are somewhat less useful now -- 1000 EU meant more when a macerator operation was cheaper.

    Good point. An expenditure of one redstone would give you one maceration, enough to make a single piece of coal into a coal dust, which you can hydrate and turn into enough energy for ten more macerations. By itself, that's a reasonable process, though you'd need to have had at least three copper and one rubber in advance (to make the cable for the SU battery set).


    I've used SU batteries in the booting process for new worlds before, and it isn't too ornery, despite the fiddly-ness of water buckets. It's not a bad way to stretch your redstone and coal in the early game, when you have few of both.

    Quote from narc

    By itself, that's a reasonable process, though you'd need to have had at least three copper and one rubber in advance (to make the cable for the SU battery set).


    That is actually the issue: to get the coal dust, the rubber and the copper you first need a Macerator, use it to macerate 2 copper, 1 coal and burn/extract 1 sticky resin and you need an additional 3 iron/tin to create a bucket. Effectively you generate 1500-2000 EU by creating a stack of 8 SUBs, however in total that first stack is just 2 tin ores and 2 iron ores less than a generator. In addition the generator can be filled with wood, which you usually have in sufficient amounts right from the beginning, and once you have that generator... why create any SUBs?

    I used SUB once, in FTB insane to get tin before completing "burn rubber". In normal gameplay they are useless, by the time you get redstone, you have enough tin to build generator. I think it should be changed, maybe they would give more energy than simple burning coal (they give 2x more already, but it isn't enough to make them useful). Overall SUBs are useless, although hydrogen cells also need more attention (they would be great without 10 eu/t restriction).