Suggestion: Tournament Rules (Higher difficulty standard setup)

  • Hi!

    As you might've read in the thread about Machine breakdown mechanics, this idea is off-topic enough and stands as a suggestion alone, hence the new thread.

    IC2 is perceived as too easy by experienced players.The breakdown mechanic, from my point of view, doesn't make the game harder but more tedious.

    Find ways to make the game harder without making it annoying. In order to do that, increase the power of the config file and release a set of "tournament rules". Advanced users can play with these on, leaving easy ways to quick success out of the game and requiring more planning, caution and introducing new dangers to seemingly everyday operation.

    (Note: The list can be expanded greatly in the course of this discussion. These are only my initial thoughts.)

    • Wind mills have a high chance to break. Its average lifespan is two in-game weeks before turning into a regular machine block.
    • Geothermal generators don't accept pipes and output only 10 EU/t while not consuming lava slower than now.
    • Geothermal
      generators have a chance to leak if over-filled. A Generator that's
      filled over 25% is expected to turn into a lava source block within the
    • Solar panels have greatly fluctuating output. A single
      packet can be as large as 33 EU, so regular setups are expected to
      explode within three weeks.
    • If not repaired early enough, Nano armor is destroyed when its energy depletes.
    • Extracting resin gives 2 rubber.
    • Every energy storage loses a percentage of its current energy every tick. (Easier if it's a percentage of the maximum amount.)
    • Bronze tools and armor are weaker and less durable than their iron counterparts.
    • Macerating an ore only has a chance of doubling the output, but it's not a guarantee.
    • Equipment left in a charging station can overheat and be destroyed.
    • An active nuclear reactor will damage you unless you wear full nano or quantum armor.
    • No rubber saplings.
    • Lappack storage is halved.

    While these ideas are arguably "lazy difficulty", it illustrates how much of the discussion about "what should be how easy or how hard" can be fixed if there was more awareness about and more power in the config file. An official set of "tournament rules" would imply that anyone who beats certain challenges with these rules would have to publically agreed-on recognition of these forums.

    Of course, nobody said we can't have "Super Tournament Rules", too...

  • No... this is just dumb...

    A bunch of unreasonable nerfs and new mechnic shortfalls to pre-existing features is not a good way to design 'difficulty'. Plus, alot of these ideas can easily be bypassed via other add-ons or mods, making the idea highly ineffective as those mods would could circumvent many of these hurtles that you are putting in the way...

    I don't believe IC (or even Minecraft, for that matter) can be seen as some 'competitive MLG-type' game that you can obtain praise for playing. It's quite foolish trying to ask that from a mod (or a sandbox game, for that matter), and I don't think you can get 'bragging rights' for being a 1337 minecraftor anyway if any mod made that type of competition possible....

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into

    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • I got a few suggestions to add to the list:

    ●Play it with a eye patch.

    ●Tied up a hand behind your back.

    ●Use first a bong for the enhancing of your mind before playing.

    ●You have to stop what you are doing every 30 minutes to pray to The Potato *chan chan chaaan*

    ●A tentacle monster must be hunting you down...

    ●Suspicious dog is suspicious, so you can't use LV, MV, HV and EV.

    By the way, I think that this suggestion is a joke, or you sir don't understand and don't know how game mechanics works for making a game more "difficult", no more "unreasonable difficult" or "difficult for da lulz".

  • I currently play 1.3.2 world with Forestry, BC, RC, Factorization and I feel that IC2 progression is too quick. Without IC2 there is need for prospector pick, steel tools (only in RC for 1.3.2), enchanting and so on. With IC2 you don't even have to make diamond pick, you just make diamond drill and backpack. When you would get good enchantments you have nano armor and mining laser. Quantum armor is not really that hard to get, with it you practically can't die (more energy consumption could be a good balancing factor). Compact solars are not a huge factor in early game balance, they are OP when you use mass fab like a transmutation tablet.

  • Coming from a map maker's perspective, this is a great idea. my only request is that it is a CFG file option. imagin somthing like this in FTB for example, (or in my case, Shrine Runner) it would work great for it as it makes it more of a challenge.

  • Interesting response. It seems like there's two groups of belief: "There's no need for competitive difficulty in Minecraft" and "Cobblestone is OP". However, I believe I worded myself badly when I suggested this: The core of the suggestion is to give more power to the config file, I admit I shouldn't have titled it "tournament rules" then.

  • Mm, I had initially read it as just more options for the config file. I do like that idea, and it would be nice to have a discussion of other things that could be altered the same way and/or which parts we'd never use.

    For instance, I'd not likely toggle the chances to break for the generators, because I'm too stuck in the mindset of "plop it down and forget about it". However, along the same lines, I like the idea of needing at least a quantum suit to walk up to a nuclear reactor (and it sounds like something that may actually happen in the nuke rework).

    I'm not sure it makes sense for nano armor to be destroyed when depleted, so I wouldn't pick that, but that does make me wonder if it might become damaged in some other way when attacked when depleted, and require repairs.

    Reducing extractor efficiency for rubber to 2/3rds of its current value would be fairly game-changing and possibly worth the challenge. Maybe make it chance-based, with chances to get 1, 2, or 3 resin out of an operation, with 2 being average. That sounds interesting.

    Less perfect energy storage blocks sound nice, but they could also potentially just lead to a lot of people storing energy in lapotrons in a chest and/or electrolyzers... I admit, I wouldn't mind that last one so much, as I usually only plop down an electrolyzer for the advanced machines addon, and they are a neat thing to have.

    Changing bronze tools durability/usefulness doesn't sound like it would change anything for me -- I don't really use them at all. Likewise, I don't find a lack of rubber saplings as a really good idea, especially with the drop in extractor efficiency. And it wouldn't address the alternative of just setting up some stickreed crops for resin -- those things are powerful. Although I wouldn't mind something to push me to actually make them and use them.

    On maceration chance to double, I'd want that to be a fairly high chance (maybe 75% or so), but also add a small (e.g. 1%) chance to lose the ore altogether. Really bad news if you're just setting up and get a bit unlucky with your first macerations, but not so much that you'll really notice after a while.

    I can't say I'd want to reduce my lappack storage, though realistically even if halved it wouldn't really affect me terribly much -- I rarely reach 50% charge in normal operation.

    Finally, I do like the idea of breaking equipment if left for too long in a charging station, but probably along the same lines as I previously mentioned for the nano suit, i.e. becoming damaged and needing to be repaired. These are more like addons than simple config changes, since one would also need to define a way to repair these items. But I do like the theory.

    As for the actual "official" tournament rules, I have to wonder if anyone would actually use them. Maybe those same people who play on Hardcore.

    I don't have any ideas to add to the list right now, but if I come up with anything I'll throw them in here and see what everyone thinks. Thanks for setting up the thread, and I have to wonder if some of the replies really understood the spirit of the idea rather than just going automatically "no, not interested". Options are good, if we can agree on a set that don't just make artificial difficulty whenever they're turned on.

  • I'd like to see a few changes to make things more difficult.

    The current wooden workbench makes things too easy. It's the only thing that doesn't take power. It's the only thing that allows you to instantaneously craft lots and lots of the same item all at once. I think we need to replace it with machines - probably several of them !

    What kinds of machines? Wire extruders. Tin cell makers. Tin cell fillers. Nuclear reprocessors. Electronic circuit makers. Battery makers. Anytime you have a class of recipes made on the workbench, there's an argument for a machine which can make these things instead.

    Obviously you have to bootstrap the process somehow - perhaps machines should be made on an electrical workbench, which is itself crafted on a regular workbench. Advanced machines need an advanced workbench, made on the electrical workbench. Maybe you can make copper wire inefficiently on a workbench. Maybe you can make a lousy one-use battery out of copper and a tin bucket of water until you can make a battery maker?

    There's certainly scope for making the start more difficult.

  • Bronze tools and armor are weaker and less durable than their iron counterparts.

    That's just stupid. Bronze is already a bit useless, thinking you've only 2 hours more to get the Nano Suit. (And about tools ... just use Diamond Drill + Lappack!)
    Bronze is already useless after 4 hours playing. Before that, it's long to make, and the time you spend to create Bronze would bring you Ore if you were mining instead of. So just use Iron Tools for the begining.

    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D

  • I am currently prototyping some ideas, as you can see here. (Not yet IC² compatible as it is very alpha)

    One of the ideas is to force the player to upgrade his crafting table to be able to make anything out of materials other than wood. This slows down progression a bit (as you need to smelt 8 iron before you can craft your first real stuff) and probably gets players to not craft everything everywhere.

    That other thing are the increased mob difficulty: one creeper isn't a big thing, however 4 creepers, 5 spiders, 3 zombies and 3 skeletons all hunting you while you are spelunking is something that makes the whole thing very dangerous and ore a lot more rare, because you can't just go to the nearest cave and get it if you are not prepared.

    Further ideas are to spread out the material requirements a bit. Example: currently you need copper and rubber for cables. Rubber farms are easy to do and copper is very common. But what if you would need string as well? It would force you to get a sheep farm in addition for some larger projects. This however is a bit tricky to get it to the point where it is challenging and fun instead of tedious and annoying.

  • That's just stupid. Bronze is already a bit useless, thinking you've only 2 hours more to get the Nano Suit. (And about tools ... just use Diamond Drill + Lappack!)
    Bronze is already useless after 4 hours playing. Before that, it's long to make, and the time you spend to create Bronze would bring you Ore if you were mining instead of. So just use Iron Tools for the begining.

    Well, that's given, yes. Still, why is a metal that's easier to procure than iron better than iron? The only problem right now is that you need a macerator (unless you've got Forestry installed), so before bronze equipment really has a use, you probably already are good enough energy-wise to go with energy consuming tools.

    Again, while bronze is already useless, if it were useful, it'd make sense to me to have it be weaker in "hard mode". If "hard mode" meant energy using equipment isn't as easy to keep up (infrastructure-wise), maybe people would choose bronze over energy...

    Also, I dearly apologize for wording the suggestion so poorly. I should probably not even have put up that list, as it's really more about better config file customization options than a set of rules. I've made a lot of mistakes in this thread, seeing as we mostly discuss these 3-second ideas I had, rather than file options that should us be able to configure these aspects.