Posts by SpwnX

    I personally feel a basic burners create pollution, and need vented away from or built away from machines, is a good place to start. implementation can be done in stages,

    To put this into both flavor and functional:
    Burners emit pollution that gets into chunk (functional part) AND a smog fluid block that works like thaumcraft taint (semi fluid-like block that floats side-upwards and can accumulate), if you're within it, you suffocate (flavor part). Once that smog block reaches sky (y=256), it disappears and turns into more pollution to the functional part.
    This smog block has to be vented by keeping a way for it to flow upwards, which is easy unless you're living deep underground.
    Muffler hatches and anything that could possibly pollute the air would do this.
    Palladium catalysts would reduce the amount of smog blocks created.


    Said smog blocks can also be destroyed with a scrubber machine should you require a self sustained enclosed system (for space stations and deep underground bases).

    We can possibly do the oxygen thing if someone explains why it makes tons of sense, and why it adds gameplay value. I don't mind it as a pollution workaround because acquiring the oxygen generates its own problems.


    The idea itself also has a minor design conflict that would need to be resolved: the plasma turbine accepts various chemical liquids for reactions. Currently Oxygen is NOT one of those inputs. If we implemented this, either
    a) we could never use oxygen in a reaction, or
    b) we would have to exclude the Plasma variant from the "large turbines that need liquid oxygen" scheme.
    or c) we'd have to design a new hatch, or a method to flag a hatch as the oxygen hatch


    (b) would be the best option, but "exceptions to the rule" should always be a last resort in game design.

    Plasma is fusion tier tech, they shouldn't be affected by pollution and don't make sense to use oxygen either because plasma energy generation doesn't look like to be a chemical reaction in the first place. You're not burning plasma with oxygen to produce heat or anything of the sort :P



    ---something that is not relevant to pollution---


    Isn't plasma just a very hot fluid, which should be the job of a large plasma heat exchanger? (because plasma is too hot and would burn down the regular LHE into ashes)
    Fun how we'd go back to steam... or another fluid should be created that expands like steam when its hot, which I don't know.
    ---


    Oxygen would be an optional fluid input, not necessary for the operation, but grants 100% efficiency if present, nullifying the pollution problem at the cost of another one, obtaining oxygen.
    Pollution is what decreases the oxygen quality in the air (which is used to burn things).
    You know that things burn because theres oxygen in the air and if you pump oxygen in, things burn faster, stronger and more efficient (no partial combustion is done [C + 1/2O = CO]).
    This is done in some kinds of blast furnaces nowadays.

    THIS is what I mean by a "can do" implementation of dirty water. It works. If there's a pollution factor nearby, machines can't use normal water anymore. Keep it on the board.


    NEGATIVES: It totally lacks Axle's flavour. Its only 10% in the fun direction whereas I'd prefer to take it further: where real, dirty water is actually a thing.

    Do both then. Dirty water on environment that poisons (or even kills if the water is too polluted) any entity that comes in contact with and blockage of "regular" water on recipes.
    Environmental water is very dirty if compared to regular water, but both are polluted enough that they can't be used for recipes.
    Dirty water can be purified into distilled water via filtering-distilling process (dirty water + Tcentrifuge = distilled water + sulfur and other crap).
    "Regular" water can be distilled with already existing processes.


    This way we get both flavour and functional dirty water.

    I'm just discussing ideas, if they're implementable, nice. If not, detail a bit why they can't. We might be able to get to something if we talk enough about it.
    I don't want you or anyone to fully implement the dreams or whatever of everyone in one go. You're human and you can only do so much with your time on your hands.
    By now I am far too used to how "slow" is GT and IC2 development are, I don't expect you to be any faster, not at all. Afaik you also have a job too, so even less time.


    I'm still against simplistic pollution though, its better if people have a more flavorful experience, even if that takes more time to be developed.
    "A bad game is always bad, a delayed one will eventually be good"


    charcoal,Lava,oil,gas issue: Make their generators burn less efficiently as pollution rises (lower oxygen quality).
    LHE doesn't suffer from this, big boilers and large turbines can accept fluid oxygen to boost efficiency back to max.


    About solar and water pollution: solar produce less or refuse to work if pollution too high.
    Water-based recipes refuse to work if pollution is too high, requiring distilled water (there are alternate recipes that use them, you can add something to block the regular water recipe I believe?)


    Also blood. You're implementing oil deposits based on chunks, right?
    What about geothermal spots that follow the same line? Those would be indefinetely extracted and would allow to have realistic geothermal green energy.




    PS: ideas are just like opinions, you may not like them.

    Going around the mechanic by having pollution elsewhere is still a big logistics problem and is one of the two options (deal with the problem directly or push it elsewhere).
    Unless you have cheaty item/fluid/energy teleporation devices, that is.


    You can also make pollution be produced by processing machines, not only energy generators.


    Also, having a heavily polluted region must be made ugly, to not look pretty and dangerous.
    Abuse it enough and you might not even be able to get close to it until everything goes to a halt, and bad choice if its an infinitely sustaining system.

    So the majority agrees that pollution hindering you tech wise is bad. It is unrealistic, too simplistic for GT gameplay and uninteresting, its flat out boring.
    Does that simplistic pollution mechanism inspire you to improve?
    Yes it does, but not in a good way, since it doesn't feel you're beating an actual obstacle but a mere game rule that you must follow or you'll be penalized.


    Making pollution harm stuff and make environment hazardous is not pure flavor. It is an - interesting - obstacle that has serious consequences if not dealt properly.
    Want to spam low tech lava boilers? Let people go crazy with it, however they'll face problems that will not stop most of his/her factory from running, but will definetely prevent him/her from living there.


    That means he/she is forced to control the pollution or will be literally locked out of the region, somewhat similar to how chernobyl and fukushima does, except that we can remedy the situation.


    ----


    Ideas for a farther future, reproduction of chernobyl and fukushima in GT.
    Exploding reactors will contaminate chunks with radiation pollution making it extremely hazardous, sometimes so much that not even a hazmat suit will be enough to protect you.

    Yes, but I removed it and the problem persisted. The first time I loaded the volcano chunk it displayed properly, but when I came back later to mine it, the bug was there and no amount of reloading or relaunching would fix it (until I switched to 1.21).

    This description is also on par with the bug we had on kiraratest on overworld (GC dimensions were just flat out bugged), you load chunks, leave them, come back to them and see stuff are missing. Invisible.

    I'd say overclocking mechanics should be changed indeed.


    Machine recipes unaltered, just the "overclocking" formula. To be smoother.
    Like a MV machine doing a LV recipe would be just about 20% faster and 10% higher energy cost.


    Then add overclockers that just do what it did on GT4, and make them stackable.
    Each overclocker would increase speed by 100%, increase EU per operation cost by 100%, increase amperage acceptance by 100%. No maximum.


    Also an efficiency upgrade, which does the opposite, reduces EU per operation cost by 95% and decrease speed by 90%, reduces amperage acceptance by 100%. Max of 5.
    This would be a hell of expensive upgrade aswell, available only when you're on EV tier.


    Another agreement with axlegear, not everyone can code. I've been handing out suggestions to those who can for over 3 years.
    If I had the will to learn I'd do that all by myself, but here you see me, talking about ideas.

    I pretty much agree with axlegear here. Nobody wants pollution that doesn't make sense or is just slapped there for "balance".


    If its there, it must be something that you deal with because it actually does yield real problems not just some random machine inefficiency "cause pollution".
    That is just something half thought and a lazy implementation that I can't accept, at all.




    +1 for making the place an actual hazardous place to live, If you can't grow crops, livestock and such, or even breathe safely on that place, it makes pollution already a big problem, really.
    Make environment hazardous, enough to destroy your industry.
    ALL Blocks get corroded with rain (save acid-proof blocks that are expensive as fuck), machines that run on water or air malfunction, machines that burn stuff gets inefficient (lower oxygen quality), machines that run any cutting device will start to need regular "maintenance" (replace macerator grinder blades, sawmill saws and whatever more).

    What about 4 types of pollution then? Those are all chunk based too.
    Water, soil, air and radiation.


    Each of them produced by machine types (and they can produce multiple types should it apply) and each of them having its negative effects on some other machines and environment.


    Air pollution would slowly dissipate on its own, water and soil pollution would also dissipate on its own, but very very slowly, requiring active combat or it will reach critical levels fast.
    Radiation pollution would also very very very very slowly dissipate on its own and there is little active combat to be done, if an area is radiated it is because someone was an idiot and blew a reactor and/or leaked waste, simple.


    Machines with moving parts would pollute water and soil due the residues produced on the processing of stuff (macerators, extractors, compressors et cetera).
    Machines that burns stuff would pollute air.
    Chemical reactor, ore washing and Tcentrifuges would heavily pollute water, soil and air due the heavy chemical processing.


    I'm overcomplicating? Yes. Do I care? Not really, I just wanted to show my idea. If nobody likes it, it will fade just like all the others.

    We'd need a special nuclear waste handler. Else people will cheat and destroy whatever fluid/item produced.


    One idea is to make Tcentrifuging depleted fuel rods produce nuclear waste fluid that must be stored on a special tank. If that waste fluid is within a non reinforced tank, it will leak, > permanently < turning blocks around it into radioactive blocks that can not be destroyed, those only decay over a long, long time.

    What about an analytics scanner googles.
    It would show info of every block within range (similar to how the tricorder does, but in a more HUD-y way).
    One of the modes would be pollution scanner.


    We can always think of ways to screw most machines in a way or another, based on pollution, not just always some random "machines work inefficient".


    Ore washer would require distilled water if the pollution level is too high because acidic water can destroy the byproducts
    Macerators would require lubricant as pollution is corroding the grinder blades
    Extractors would produce ashes 10% of the time because pollution is clogging the extractor's pumps.
    Thermal centrifuges would require nitrogen gas (inert environment) to centrifuge.


    Higher tier machines have a higher pollution threshold, with the highest tier level not be affected by pollution at all.