[GregTech-5][1.7.10-FORGE-1355+][Unofficial but approved Port][Stable] Even GT5 Experimental is slowly getting stable.

    Quote from Sapient

    MHO is - multiblock machines should be more efficient than single block. So wiki should be changed, not code.

    PS I'm still using array of HP Coal Boilers and HP Lava Boilers (they built long before GT5U was created) and need good reason to replace them by multiblock boilers :)
    Same for HeatExchanger/Turbines. Still using IC variant.


    Wait till I finish implementing pollution, that'll learn ya to upgrade quick :p

    That said...

    Quote from axlegear

    I'm with Sapient on this one. There's not much reason to invest in huge, expensive machines if they're not going to offer a clear advantage. Progression balance is key!


    This is my opinion in a nutshell, but I still want to hear what Blood Asp has to say.

    Also I'd really appreciate it if someone can independently confirm my numbers.

    Quote from Pyure

    Wait till I finish implementing pollution, that'll learn ya to upgrade quick :p

    That said...

    How will polution work? Limiting the amount of boilers you can have per chunk? Or just adding up over time, until you remove it with some kind of filters or plants?

    Quote from Sapient

    Isn't AE2 must have with GT?


    Is that so?
    I was looking into, seems I would to need another tech tree, and I would need to search chunk generated meteorites. As I already explored A LOT, would be a pain to add it now.
    Maybe I do this weekend, seems fun though.

    Quote from dohvakin96

    How will polution work? Limiting the amount of boilers you can have per chunk? Or just adding up over time, until you remove it with some kind of filters or plants?

    So, after you produced a lot of pollution, some fiscals will spawn, and will charge you with a fine? Then you can pay it, try to bribe the guy - or kill them, and after that, cops would be coming, and from this point, it becomes a tower defense game?

    Seems too complicated, I hope the fines will be just a few diamonds or emeralds...

    Edited once, last by Drawfox (September 22, 2015 at 2:28 PM).

    Quote from dohvakin96

    How will polution work? Limiting the amount of boilers you can have per chunk? Or just adding up over time, until you remove it with some kind of filters or plants?


    No hard limits. I believe in soft controls in game design rather than strict ones.

    Short verison:

    • Machines will produce varying amounts of pollution per cycle into the chunk and dimension. Stuff like Lava Boilers will be big offenders.
    • The air will cleanse itself of Y pollution per cycle. This way you can always produce SOME pollution and it has zero impact.
    • Chunks will dissipate Z pollution per cycle into adjacent chunks.
    • Machines (possibly any GT machine in your base) will regularly check the pollution level and if its too high, have a chance to "miss" a tick production wise. So energy will be spent, but nothing will happen during that tick.
    • Higher tier machines will generally produce far less pollution than lower tech machines!!


    After that I'll entertain all the usual requests about dying crops and acid rain and health impacts, etc etc. Tech balance first though.

    Quote from Drawfox

    Is that so?
    I was looking into, seems I would to need another tech tree, and I would need to search chunk generated meteorites. As I already explored A LOT, would be a pain to add it now.
    Maybe I do this weekend, seems fun though.

    Technically, when both AE2 and GT are installed, there are processing recipes for the inscriber presses without having to generate meteorites. They each take 1920 EU/t for 100 seconds, though.

    • Official Post

    It doesnt make that much sense on how air pollution affects all machines though.

    It should affect only things that burn (reduces air oxygen quality), like boilers.

    Rain would corrode blocks away if the pollution is too high (slowly, all the way down to bedrock) , requiring a special acid-proof block to protect yourself.

    Quote from Pyure


    *carefully jots down ideas*
    *carefully moves ideas file to dev/null*


    Noooooo, my beautiful ideas!!! ;(

    I agree with Spwnx (seriously, no vowels?), It should affect heavily turbines thought, functioning of the small, and damage from use of the large ones.
    It will affect water sources? It could impact boilers that way, too...

    Edited once, last by Drawfox (September 22, 2015 at 3:31 PM).

    • Official Post

    Affect water? Greatly increase cost to distill water, since the water is polluted.

    Machines that use water to produce steam would produce less steam and might even jam sometimes due residue.

    About my nickname: Yep, no vowels. It used to be Spawn, shortened to Spwn, then added an X to avoid the problem of "username already taken".

    Quote from SpwnX

    Affect water? Greatly increase cost to distill water, since the water is polluted.

    Machines that use water to produce steam would produce less steam and might even jam sometimes due residue.

    About my nickname: Yep, no vowels. It used to be Spawn, shortened to Spwn, then added an X to avoid the problem of "username already taken".

    I was going to say that, as the water is polluted, the boilers would spit boiling angry three-eyed fishes on your face, when you approach them. But your idea is good too.

    (Ah, Vowels, that was the word... Fixed!)

    Quote from SpwnX

    It doesnt make that much sense on how air pollution affects all machines though.

    It should affect only things that burn (reduces air oxygen quality), like boilers.

    Rain would corrode blocks away if the pollution is too high (slowly, all the way down to bedrock) , requiring a special acid-proof block to protect yourself.


    Ah yes, good old realism.

    This is an area where balance takes precedence. The point here isn't to model a fun and interesting pollution simulation. Its to make higher tier machinery less useless, period. I employ a bit of handwavium and say "all machines are subject to particulate matter in the air. So smog can clog anything with moving parts, which is everything."

    I might pick a very few machines and render them completely immune, but it really breaks the target objective. And it would require updating every wiki entry to indicate whether a machine is immune or subject to pollution. Its easier to just say "pollution screws with your machines."

    Quote from Pyure


    No hard limits. I believe in soft controls in game design rather than strict ones.

    Short verison:

    • Machines will produce varying amounts of pollution per cycle into the chunk and dimension. Stuff like Lava Boilers will be big offenders.
    • The air will cleanse itself of Y pollution per cycle. This way you can always produce SOME pollution and it has zero impact.
    • Chunks will dissipate Z pollution per cycle into adjacent chunks.
    • Machines (possibly any GT machine in your base) will regularly check the pollution level and if its too high, have a chance to "miss" a tick production wise. So energy will be spent, but nothing will happen during that tick.
    • Higher tier machines will generally produce far less pollution than lower tech machines!!


    After that I'll entertain all the usual requests about dying crops and acid rain and health impacts, etc etc. Tech balance first though.


    Any concern of griefing chunks by secretly placing pollution sources next to protected chunks? Perhaps tie the pollution creation to the owner of the pollution sources so if a player can't place a block in a chunk then his pollution can't affect that chunk.

    Quote from willis936


    Any concern of griefing chunks by secretly placing pollution sources next to protected chunks? Perhaps tie the pollution creation to the owner of the pollution sources so if a player can't place a block in a chunk then his pollution can't affect that chunk.


    Hmm. I don't *think* its a concern. That's a pretty weak griefing. Also, I wouldn't want to make "cooperative" bases process pollution separately. (Maybe this is really uncommon on the kirara server? In most of my server experiences, many bases are dual-operated)

    Attacking your concern from a separate angle though, I'd love to explore ways to provide easy feedback on polluting sources. I'm not sure what the best answer to that, but I could envision maybe adding a pair of goggles that you could wear and it would show polluting sources really strongly, with particular offenders standing out the most. That would give you a tool to remove the griefing machine.

    • Official Post

    What about an analytics scanner googles.
    It would show info of every block within range (similar to how the tricorder does, but in a more HUD-y way).
    One of the modes would be pollution scanner.

    We can always think of ways to screw most machines in a way or another, based on pollution, not just always some random "machines work inefficient".

    Ore washer would require distilled water if the pollution level is too high because acidic water can destroy the byproducts
    Macerators would require lubricant as pollution is corroding the grinder blades
    Extractors would produce ashes 10% of the time because pollution is clogging the extractor's pumps.
    Thermal centrifuges would require nitrogen gas (inert environment) to centrifuge.

    Higher tier machines have a higher pollution threshold, with the highest tier level not be affected by pollution at all.

    Quote from SpwnX

    What about an analytics scanner googles.
    It would show info of every block within range (similar to how the tricorder does, but in a more HUD-y way).
    One of the modes would be pollution scanner.

    We can always think of ways to screw most machines in a way or another, based on pollution, not just always some random "machines work inefficient".

    Ore washer would require distilled water if the pollution level is too high because acidic water can destroy the byproducts
    Macerators would require lubricant as pollution is corroding the grinder blades
    Extractors would produce ashes 10% of the time because pollution is clogging the extractor's pumps.
    Thermal centrifuges would require nitrogen gas (inert environment) to centrifuge.

    Higher tier machines have a higher pollution threshold, with the highest tier level not be affected by pollution at all.


    That very last item I definitely want to do.
    Some of that other stuff just flat-out wouldn't work due to the work involved (for recipe/slot reasons). That said, I don't actually mind trying to make machines "break" in more interesting ways. We'll see how it goes :)

    • Official Post

    You shouldn't be producing pollution if your source of energy is fusion...

    Now instead of ways to clean it, we should have upgrades that when installed on any polluting machine, reduces the pollution output. Those would be costly.