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SpwnX

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16,821

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:27pm

No. mDiyo made it configable, and told Greg to leave it alone and let the user decide. Quit trying to make a 3rd night of chaos.
Pointless, redundant and conflicting config towards Greg's.
Pointless and redundant as Greg already offered the config to turn off the wood nerf since it had been added.
Conflicting as TC may have the anti-nerf ON, and GT with the config to nerf ON. This may make TC win the overriding thingy, but it is not a cool thing.

Why someone would bother to turn the anti-nerf ON at TC config, if one can do the same, but by turning OFF the nerf at GT config?
We need people to document GregTech, help us by joining the FTB wiki team: http://wiki.feed-the-beast.com/GregTech

16,822

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:28pm

So, a truce is agreed upon, Greg will remove his crash-code after mDiyo has removed his. ...and mDiyo goes back on this. Most of the hatred being shown because of this whole affair is based upon people's general distaste of GregTech (despite it being the choice of server owners to run it on their respective servers, etc. and how it's configured etc., not Greg's.), rather than this back-and-forth escalation between Greg and mDiyo.

Is this backing out of the truce to capitalise on this hatred to gain popularity? I don't agree that a client crash is the best method to combat mDiyo's methods by far, but to back out of a truce THEN act as if it is a wholly one-sided thing, Greg being evil, is absolutely backhanded.
No. mDiyo made it configable, and told Greg to leave it alone and let the user decide. Quit trying to make a 3rd night of chaos.
Right, the problem was that mDiyo's original change made it so that the user Couldn't decide. That's all Greg wanted in the first place.

16,823

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:31pm

Greg adds configs because there would be backlash if he didn't. Not because he wants to. Don't be delusional.

Chocohead

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16,824

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:32pm

Why someone would bother to turn the anti-nerf ON at TC config, if one can do the same, but by turning OFF the nerf at GT config?
TC config is smaller :P
So, a truce is agreed upon, Greg will remove his crash-code after mDiyo has removed his. ...and mDiyo goes back on this. Most of the hatred being shown because of this whole affair is based upon people's general distaste of GregTech (despite it being the choice of server owners to run it on their respective servers, etc. and how it's configured etc., not Greg's.), rather than this back-and-forth escalation between Greg and mDiyo.

Is this backing out of the truce to capitalise on this hatred to gain popularity? I don't agree that a client crash is the best method to combat mDiyo's methods by far, but to back out of a truce THEN act as if it is a wholly one-sided thing, Greg being evil, is absolutely backhanded.
No. mDiyo made it configable, and told Greg to leave it alone and let the user decide. Quit trying to make a 3rd night of chaos.
Right, the problem was that mDiyo's original change made it so that the user Couldn't decide. That's all Greg wanted in the first place.
So mDiyo adding a config of his own is fine. There, argument over. No need for many pages of amusing, get annoying junk.
145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
// I just don't know what went wrong :(

I see this too much.

16,825

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:33pm

So, a truce is agreed upon, Greg will remove his crash-code after mDiyo has removed his. ...and mDiyo goes back on this. Most of the hatred being shown because of this whole affair is based upon people's general distaste of GregTech (despite it being the choice of server owners to run it on their respective servers, etc. and how it's configured etc., not Greg's.), rather than this back-and-forth escalation between Greg and mDiyo.

Is this backing out of the truce to capitalise on this hatred to gain popularity? I don't agree that a client crash is the best method to combat mDiyo's methods by far, but to back out of a truce THEN act as if it is a wholly one-sided thing, Greg being evil, is absolutely backhanded.
No. mDiyo made it configable, and told Greg to leave it alone and let the user decide. Quit trying to make a 3rd night of chaos.
I'm not trying to make a 3rd night of chaos. It'll happen regardless, because people love to blindly hate. All I'm doing is trying to look at this whole situation objectively. It's configurable on both sides, but really it shouldn't need to be. If people want to disable the GT wood nerf....they can do so in the GT config. EVERYTHING about GT can be configured via its configs. GT is the best mod for letting the user decide what it does and doesn't want enabled/disabled.

Galbar

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16,826

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:34pm

Unfortunately i can't help you with this, but you can try updating forge and bukkitforge. GregTech tries to keep as much downwards compatible as possible (forge and MC versions), but he may be using an updated version which is not compatible with bukkitforge. These are random toughts, not that they are right.


Thanks for a so rapid answer ;)

I try to use :

Minecraft 1.5.2 with

Forge is updated (minecraftforge-universal-1.5.2-7.8.1.738 )
BukkitForge is updated (BukkitForge-1.5.2-301 and I test with only on Plugin : CleanLag)
Gregtech is updated (I just try wih the last build 3.11 and it's the same before I try with 3.08b)

So you said maybe with a older build of GregTech ?

Does am I alone to meet this problem ??

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Galbar" (Jul 18th 2013, 11:40pm)


16,827

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:35pm

It is really fun to read all the hate towards greg. The issue was fixed some hours ago, i simply don't know WHY mDiyo decided to go back on his decision of "peace" with Greg.
Maybe because this will make TC have some kind of popularity on the FTB, as their community already hates Greg for many reasons and will take any side that is agaisnt it for whatever reason?

I have a feeling it has something to do with Greg's response to Slowpokes inquiry, which was discussed while Myrathi's live stream was muted a few hours ago. So far none of it has been made public so far as I could find, but mDiyo was around.

I'm hoping this issue isn't escalated further. If I have to set two config flags to enable a nerf, fuck it, I'll do it. I do not want to choose between GregTech and Tinkers Construct and/or Natura. I enjoy them both, and I honestly do believe a "Tedious Mode" with Greg-like recipes requiring recipes requiring recipes would be fun to play.

16,828

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:35pm

Unfortunately i can't help you with this, but you can try updating forge and bukkitforge. GregTech tries to keep as much downwards compatible as possible (forge and MC versions), but he may be using an updated version which is not compatible with bukkitforge. These are random toughts, not that they are right.


Thanks for a so rapid answer ;)

Forge is updated
BukkitForge is updated
Gregtech is updated (I just try wih the last build 3.11 and it's the same before I try with 3.08b)

So maybe with a older build of GregTech ?

Does am I alone to meet this problem ??
What version of Minecraft are you using?

Chocohead

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16,829

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:36pm

mDiyo left Gretech configs alone like he wants Greg to like TC's (I expect). More options are flexibility, not a hindrance.
145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
// I just don't know what went wrong :(

I see this too much.

16,830

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:38pm

You all suck.

There is only 3 mod recipes that got changed, with one being an indirect buff (UE), these all can be turned off, except for Forestry bronze hand crafting.
I guess that's why several Minefactory Reloaded recipes take Gregtech stuff when it's present? Or do you mean three mods period? In which case that's still an abhorrent practice because there has always been an unspoken agreement between modders that "you don't mess with my mod, I don't mess with yours" unless there was actually a conversation involved where they agreed on it. You don't typically expect an addon mod of a mod that barely touches vanilla progression to then go on to not only affect other mods, but also affect vanilla thereby affecting EVEN MORE other mods, albeit indirectly. There's a reason most mods don't touch Vanilla outside of adding features to enhance it (as opposed to taking features away to nerf it or make it more difficult), and that's usually because it ends up messing with other mods. Vanilla is the stability point, the sort of foundation if you will, of all other things built on top of it.

Imagine a big cement... square, perhaps a quarter metre thick, with lots of space. It's got a bunch of doohickeys literally built into the cement that serve various functions. Other people come and build on their cement and allow other people to interact with the things they build, which they call mods, as long as they don't change it so that the experience isn't the same for the people to follow. These mods typically rely on the doohickeys and gadgets remaining exactly the same, in the same place, with the same function. Every now and then someone might come by and stick a gear or two onto the doohickeys and gadgets that make them operate more smoothly, but it's a small change and if someone wants to operate the doohickeys or gadgets without the gears that make it easier, they just pull them off the spokes. No problemo.

With Gregtech it doesn't work that way. Gregtech is going on to make the doohickeys and gadgets HARDER to operate, and then built the mechanisms to remove it in such a way that it immediately automatically fixes itself the moment you try to break it off, on top of placing his building on top of it and then reaching out of his building and using a very long stick to poke and rearrange things through the window of another building, with neither warning nor announcement until the builder comes back to find lots of his stuff not how he left it, and a bunch of Intergalactical PoweredGregbots walking across the stick and invading his building and replacing the working parts of this poor guy's machines with parts from Greg's building, and then removing all of the other parts that would normally be used from the guy's storehouse and writing signs saying "If you want to build this, you have to come over to my building and do this, this, also this, that, make three of those, two of these, and craft a diamond block combined with a nether star and six Gregtechnonite bars."

This is commonly considered a DICK MOVE.

It's not like other addon buildings, where a guy comes over and says he'd like to make these things and have them require these things from this guy's building, and that he'd like to add functionality to this thing that doesn't even NEED to be used, and then acquires a seal of approval to wear on his hat.

Gregtech is expanding far too much out of the sphere of influence allowed to an 'addon mod'.

At this point, Gregtech should really stop pretending to be an IC2 mod and just become its own thing, but at the same time it shouldn't fucking touch other mods. In fact, I would go so far as to just go ahead and suggest that Greg, if he wishes to continue to take Gregtech in the direction he's taking it, he should make it a total conversion mod and make it completely alter vanilla and then leave every single other mod alone forever. You want GT bronze, and you want it to act this way, be made this way and be used this way? Fine! Don't change the way a different mod makes a similarly named material! Just make the two similarly-named materials unexchangeable.

This thing with mDiyo and Greg is starting to become a back and forth of fucking retarded proportions. Greg has changed the foundation of the thing everyone uses, and mDiyo comes along and goes through the trouble of making it so that people don't have to deal with the changed foundation, and suddenly it's mDiyo's fault alone and Greg goes ahead and makes it so that if mDiyo so much as steps onto the foundation there's a pumpkin of shame placed on his head blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

This is why you don't change vanilla, especially as an 'addon mod' to a mod that never touched vanilla in the first place.

tl;dr this is all fucking retarded and everyone should feel ashamed forever.
Shit, I feel ashamed just for making an account and going through the trouble of making his very
very
very
VERY
TL;DR POST

EVERYONE GO HOME GOOD NIGHT

(also SpawnX, repeatedly using 'creative' like it's some kind of demeaning insult just makes you seem like a complete moron, especially in the context of "If it's not Gregtech, it's creative! hurr!)

fuck me I'm never posting here again.

Galbar

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16,831

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:39pm

What version of Minecraft are you using?



1.5.2

SpwnX

IC² Creative Content Inventor and GT Public Relations Manager

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16,832

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:44pm

I have a feeling it has something to do with Greg's response to Slowpokes inquiry, which was discussed while Myrathi's live stream was muted a few hours ago. So far none of it has been made public so far as I could find, but mDiyo was around.
Oh. I don't know a thing about it, so, no comments.
I'm hoping this issue isn't escalated further. If I have to set two config flags to enable a nerf, fuck it, I'll do it. I do not want to choose between GregTech and Tinkers Construct and/or Natura. I enjoy them both, and I honestly do believe a "Tedious Mode" with Greg-like recipes requiring recipes requiring recipes would be fun to play.
So do I. I don't want to choose between GregTech and Tinker Construct.
I also like the "tedious mode", with greg recipes and such, but i also like TC modular tools.

IMO, the bad thing happened when mDiyo tried to force his way over Greg's, leaving the user unaware of the nerf, nor giving him the option to choose to play with or without Greg's wood nerf.
We need people to document GregTech, help us by joining the FTB wiki team: http://wiki.feed-the-beast.com/GregTech

16,833

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:47pm

Soooooooooooo muuuuuuuuuuch stupppppppppppppppppid nnnnnnnnnonsese :).

If you have no idea what you're talking about, pls go away. MFR has it own config with gregtech! MFR CONFIG <--- Not greg, but people like you, who're to stupid to look into a simple config, are the most and stupiest flamer of all. Too bad that FTB has a community like this but it's minecraft, popular and every kid want's to play it.

SpwnX

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16,834

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:53pm

Too big.


I guess that's why several Minefactory Reloaded recipes take Gregtech stuff when it's present? Or do you mean three mods period? In which case that's still an abhorrent practice because there has always been an unspoken agreement between modders that "you don't mess with my mod, I don't mess with yours" unless there was actually a conversation involved where they agreed on it. You don't typically expect an addon mod of a mod that barely touches vanilla progression to then go on to not only affect other mods, but also affect vanilla thereby affecting EVEN MORE other mods, albeit indirectly. There's a reason most mods don't touch Vanilla outside of adding features to enhance it (as opposed to taking features away to nerf it or make it more difficult), and that's usually because it ends up messing with other mods. Vanilla is the stability point, the sort of foundation if you will, of all other things built on top of it.

Imagine a big cement... square, perhaps a quarter metre thick, with lots of space. It's got a bunch of doohickeys literally built into the cement that serve various functions. Other people come and build on their cement and allow other people to interact with the things they build, which they call mods, as long as they don't change it so that the experience isn't the same for the people to follow. These mods typically rely on the doohickeys and gadgets remaining exactly the same, in the same place, with the same function. Every now and then someone might come by and stick a gear or two onto the doohickeys and gadgets that make them operate more smoothly, but it's a small change and if someone wants to operate the doohickeys or gadgets without the gears that make it easier, they just pull them off the spokes. No problemo.

With Gregtech it doesn't work that way. Gregtech is going on to make the doohickeys and gadgets HARDER to operate, and then built the mechanisms to remove it in such a way that it immediately automatically fixes itself the moment you try to break it off, on top of placing his building on top of it and then reaching out of his building and using a very long stick to poke and rearrange things through the window of another building, with neither warning nor announcement until the builder comes back to find lots of his stuff not how he left it, and a bunch of Intergalactical PoweredGregbots walking across the stick and invading his building and replacing the working parts of this poor guy's machines with parts from Greg's building, and then removing all of the other parts that would normally be used from the guy's storehouse and writing signs saying "If you want to build this, you have to come over to my building and do this, this, also this, that, make three of those, two of these, and craft a diamond block combined with a nether star and six Gregtechnonite bars."

This is commonly considered a DICK MOVE.

It's not like other addon buildings, where a guy comes over and says he'd like to make these things and have them require these things from this guy's building, and that he'd like to add functionality to this thing that doesn't even NEED to be used, and then acquires a seal of approval to wear on his hat.

Gregtech is expanding far too much out of the sphere of influence allowed to an 'addon mod'.

At this point, Gregtech should really stop pretending to be an IC2 mod and just become its own thing, but at the same time it shouldn't fucking touch other mods. In fact, I would go so far as to just go ahead and suggest that Greg, if he wishes to continue to take Gregtech in the direction he's taking it, he should make it a total conversion mod and make it completely alter vanilla and then leave every single other mod alone forever. You want GT bronze, and you want it to act this way, be made this way and be used this way? Fine! Don't change the way a different mod makes a similarly named material! Just make the two similarly-named materials unexchangeable.

This thing with mDiyo and Greg is starting to become a back and forth of fucking retarded proportions. Greg has changed the foundation of the thing everyone uses, and mDiyo comes along and goes through the trouble of making it so that people don't have to deal with the changed foundation, and suddenly it's mDiyo's fault alone and Greg goes ahead and makes it so that if mDiyo so much as steps onto the foundation there's a pumpkin of shame placed on his head blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

This is why you don't change vanilla, especially as an 'addon mod' to a mod that never touched vanilla in the first place.

tl;dr this is all fucking retarded and everyone should feel ashamed forever.
Shit, I feel ashamed just for making an account and going through the trouble of making his very
very
very
VERY
TL;DR POST

EVERYONE GO HOME GOOD NIGHT

(also SpawnX, repeatedly using 'creative' like it's some kind of demeaning insult just makes you seem like a complete moron, especially in the context of "If it's not Gregtech, it's creative! hurr!)

fuck me I'm never posting here again.




MineFactory Reloaded, Modular Power Suits, Advanced Solars and some other mods have special GregTech Recipes made by their owners, as many users requested for "harder" recipes following GregTech's gameplay.
There is only three other mods which are DIRECTLY altered by Greg and all the changes can be turned off via config, if you dislike them :
BuildCraft Quarry, Forestry Bronze (the amount can be restored back to 3+1 = 4 using both Forestry and GT configs) and UE plates (an indirect buff).

GregTech is indeed altering vanilla, the "base" of all other mods, but these changes are intentional, to extend your early tech gameplay, including other mods tech, however these changes can also be turned off if it does not please you.

The answer for everything : Why do you think GregoriusT made a freaking long config?
To allow users to have the maximum flexibility possible, playing the way they want, with the option to either accept GregTech nerfes, reject partially some nerfs or totally reject the nerfs.
This includes vanilla "nerfs", which does affect other mods tech trees and that was probably intentional.
We need people to document GregTech, help us by joining the FTB wiki team: http://wiki.feed-the-beast.com/GregTech

Galbar

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16,835

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:54pm

Hand in Hand...all modder in the same way...

haaaa a dream ! but haaaaaaa a page where modders can put the ID who are using .... haaaa

A world where BukkitForge and GregTech are good together ;p

Wood wood and CFG but and my problem ? ;p

16,836

Thursday, July 18th 2013, 11:56pm

The thing is, all GregTech changes from other mods are recipes, that's it. Nothing functional or operational. And again, these can all be disabled/enabled via the configs. If you don't want them changing, change the configs. If you don't want them changing on the server you play on, ask the server owner. Don't hate Greg for it.

The issue as to whether they're enabled or not lies with the user/server admin, because recipes can be easily changed with other mods as well, such as CustomStuff 2 (which I do).

I would have a problem with GregTech if it started modifying actual content of other mods, but when Greg wants to do that, he just implements his own version in GT and disables the recipe of the original (again, editable in the configs) (He's only done this with IC2 content as far as I'm aware). Personally, I don't have an issue with this.


One thing that REALLY needs to be pushed home about GregTech that a lot of people don't seem to pick up on, is that it's a players choice to play with it, like any other mod. If they choose to do so, but don't like certain parts of it, everything can be changed via the configs. No other mod comes remotely close to the reconfigurability of GregTech, at all. If the server they play on has it on, but the player doesn't want to play with it, either find another server, or raise it with the server owner. End of.

16,837

Friday, July 19th 2013, 12:02am

>configs
>configs
>configs
>configs
>configs


this argument would hold more weight if greg's configs weren't poorly designed bunches of nonsense english spread out over multiple files and inconsistently named.

16,838

Friday, July 19th 2013, 12:05am

Also, if a mod developer doesn't want GT to interfere with certain recipes (Vanilla), then shouldn't they do what Forestry did/does and warn the player via a message, informing them that said interfering changes can be changed in the GT configs? (For server owners, or people who use something other than a distribution platform like FTB where no configs need to be touched, provide a warning or notice in the installation instructions or config itself, again, informing them that said interfering changes can be changed in the GT configs?)

SpwnX

IC² Creative Content Inventor and GT Public Relations Manager

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16,839

Friday, July 19th 2013, 12:09am

Also, if a mod developer doesn't want GT to interfere with certain recipes (Vanilla), then shouldn't they do what Forestry did/does and warn the player via a message, informing them that said interfering changes can be changed in the GT configs? (For server owners, or people who use something other than a distribution platform like FTB where no configs need to be touched, provide a warning or notice in the installation instructions or config itself, again, informing them that said interfering changes can be changed in the GT configs?)
Just what i said some posts above , TC could have displayed this message on game startup, after GT 3.11 :
"Tinkers Construct heavily depends on Wood, disabling GregTech wood nerf on its config is advised."
We need people to document GregTech, help us by joining the FTB wiki team: http://wiki.feed-the-beast.com/GregTech

16,840

Friday, July 19th 2013, 12:09am

>configs
>configs
>configs
>configs
>configs


this argument would hold more weight if greg's configs weren't poorly designed bunches of nonsense english spread out over multiple files and inconsistently named.
I find them fairly easy to navigate/understand, but asking for them to be easier to identify/understand is an appreciable request. Why not ask for this?

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