[1.7.10] Gregtech Hardmode Server (aka Kirara 2.0)

I really do not think Thaumcraft should be touched too much. It would tear up balancing if we modify too many recipes. And if we do modify recipes, I recommend making an official plugin instead of using minetweaker which might be buggy. (Although the Thaumometer should be safe to tweak)

GregoriusT: Do your machines and items implement Thaumcraft aspects natively? Or is the existing aspects done entirely by Thaumcraft?

Another mod which might be a good idea is Immibis's Microblocks. I recently found out that those microblocks, unlike FMP, work with IC2 cables (Gee, I wonder where we are using those...) and can be made to work with other items, like Greg's Pipes. That would be REALLY useful to have to make builds look better.

Actually, thinking about it some more: Why don't we make an addon for Thaumcraft that adds some compatability with GregTech? I'm thinking more wands and a redo of some tech.

Quote from Generalcamo

I really do not think Thaumcraft should be touched too much. It would tear up balancing if we modify too many recipes. And if we do modify recipes, I recommend making an official plugin instead of using minetweaker which might be buggy. (Although the Thaumometer should be safe to tweak)

If we don't change TC starter recipes, it will tear up the balance of every other mod on the server. It would be better to not include TC at all in that case.

Starting recipes indeed should be changed. However, beyond that, it really shouldn't be messed with.

EDIT: I did some more testing, and there are other problems with Thaumcraft--GregTech compatability. While it does have aspects, there are other problems. Alumentum for example is not recognized as a valid fuel, when it actually should be.

I recommend leaving out Thaumcraft until some of the problems are fixed.

Quote from Generalcamo

Starting recipes indeed should be changed. However, beyond that, it really shouldn't be messed with.

EDIT: I did some more testing, and there are other problems with Thaumcraft--GregTech compatability. While it does have aspects, there are other problems. Alumentum for example is not recognized as a valid fuel, when it actually should be.

I recommend leaving out Thaumcraft until some of the problems are fixed.

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Or, when greg updates to 1.7, he can include those changes, and fix any bugs
GT is still about 6 days off, maybe more for TC. We need to see what happens first before me make decisions.

-1 for a portal mod. 2 kinds of Teleporters are enough.

-1 for microblocks. We have cf that can look like anything with the obscurator. Plus GT covers. Plus a couple useless decorative mods already.

I'm repeating myself, but maybe after all this balancing talk some points may be more obvious: Do we really need TC?

Sure, it offers a few fancy tools, but they will have all the niceness drained out of them due to lack of enchanting tables. Apart from those it's a whole tech tree of its own that covers stuff we can already do with the tech mods, in flashier and heavier ways.

More importantly, its worldgen and node mechanics make it impossible to ignore if someone wishes to do so, radically altering the gameplay experience.

Now if we're keeping it, I really don't think you can hope to balance it by introducing a couple of choke points, making wands require GT stuff. Should the crop harvesting golems also require cobalt and stainless to be on par with the GT crop harvestors? How about the magic mirror skirting the EU requirements for tesseracting items? Currently you can feed it boats (or even easier, enderpearls).

My opinion is, if we're having it, keep it as it is. To be really balanced it would need adjustments to its running and not its entry costs. Shops are going to make entry tech tiers irrelevant and requiring industrial alloys to do magic makes no sense anyway. It's SMP: tech hurdles only really delay the first player to reach a tier.

There is no point in adding the mod and then trying to impose the balance as it was without it. The new balance will be the combination of the two tech trees: Stick with TC smelting and you'll find yourself without byproducts. Your tungstensteel tools are too expensive for what they do compared to the TC ones? Well boo hoo, they were meant for a different set of mods. I call this having conflicting mods, but I hear elsewhere they call it Ef Tee Bee.

What is to be considered is not how you go about getting the tech, but how your base and gameplay will look like in your mid- and late game - A purely industrial approach vs. one with golems doing the job of machine rigs and essence farms creating stuff through transmutation.

Don't get me wrong, I like TC. It's indeed very techy for a magical mod and could very well be the backbone of a more casual server. But for this one it will make things dead easy.

I know we voted but populism does not a good server make - and it wasn't voting that made the previous one successful. In my opinion what made it good was a coherent vision, without conflicting tech trees trying to achieve the same goals.

Aaaanyway, just stopped by to be a buzzkill, back to playing SSP BtW and enjoying terrain affecting move speed :p

Quote from MrRainbow

-1 for a portal mod. 2 kinds of Teleporters are enough.

-1 for microblocks. We have cf that can look like anything with the obscurator. Plus GT covers. Plus a couple useless decorative mods already.

I'm repeating myself, but maybe after all this balancing talk some points may be more obvious: Do we really need TC?

Sure, it offers a few fancy tools, but they will have all the niceness drained out of them due to lack of enchanting tables. Apart from those it's a whole tech tree of its own that covers stuff we can already do with the tech mods, in flashier and heavier ways.

More importantly, its worldgen and node mechanics make it impossible to ignore if someone wishes to do so, radically altering the gameplay experience.

Now if we're keeping it, I really don't think you can hope to balance it by introducing a couple of choke points, making wands require GT stuff. Should the crop harvesting golems also require cobalt and stainless to be on par with the GT crop harvestors? How about the magic mirror skirting the EU requirements for tesseracting items? Currently you can feed it boats (or even easier, enderpearls).

My opinion is, if we're having it, keep it as it is. To be really balanced it would need adjustments to its running and not its entry costs. Shops are going to make entry tech tiers irrelevant and requiring industrial alloys to do magic makes no sense anyway. It's SMP: tech hurdles only really delay the first player to reach a tier.

There is no point in adding the mod and then trying to impose the balance as it was without it. The new balance will be the combination of the two tech trees: Stick with TC smelting and you'll find yourself without byproducts. Your tungstensteel tools are too expensive for what they do compared to the TC ones? Well boo hoo, they were meant for a different set of mods. I call this having conflicting mods, but I hear elsewhere they call it Ef Tee Bee.

What is to be considered is not how you go about getting the tech, but how your base and gameplay will look like in your mid- and late game - A purely industrial approach vs. one with golems doing the job of machine rigs and essence farms creating stuff through transmutation.

Don't get me wrong, I like TC. It's indeed very techy for a magical mod and could very well be the backbone of a more casual server. But for this one it will make things dead easy.

I know we voted but populism does not a good server make - and it wasn't voting that made the previous one successful. In my opinion what made it good was a coherent vision, without conflicting tech trees trying to achieve the same goals.

Aaaanyway, just stopped by to be a buzzkill, back to playing SSP BtW and enjoying terrain affecting move speed :p

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Don't want to argue with all of this, just want to say that I thought the last server was based on having one tech tree, and we'd have to change thaumcraft around a bit to suit that (not a lot, just a tiny bit). And it isn't conflicting tech trees if we adjust the tech tree of Thaumcraft, as they'll be non-conflicting then

It is possible that I could make an addon to Thaumcraft to make it more Gregtech like, but it would take a while for balancing and talking with Azanor on the changes, so I say leave out Thaumcraft for a while.

Any and all worldgen (Except enchanted forests) can be retrogenned, so it will not really matter in the end.

BA damn you and your reasonable intelligent logic

If it will affect our movement to the new server (aka redpowering the release) i would -1 for TC. A balanced Ic2 compatable alchemy addon to TC would change my mind (if it does exist) As for gregtech, until chickenbones gets his nei together, no gregtech. So it all is dependent on nei.

Quote from mr10movie

Don't want to argue with all of this,

Haha, my quote being in your post says otherwise!

Quote from mr10movie

just want to say that I thought the last server was based on having one tech tree, and we'd have to change thaumcraft around a bit to suit that (not a lot, just a tiny bit). And it isn't conflicting tech trees if we adjust the tech tree of Thaumcraft, as they'll be non-conflicting then

A tiny bit huh? Now I'm reassured.
How do you imagine the "one tech tree" when both mods have a huge area of overlap?

All I've seen proposed is increasing costs for building stuff... steel (3-4 hours of looking for dungeons right after spawning) and stainless (2-3 days of gt progress). So after you pay those initial costs you have access to TC machines, replacing a bunch of GT stuff as the cheapest way to do something.

The issue is not what the TC items cost. It's what they do. They mine and smelt with vis from the world instead of EU that we would need to produce, they move items with pathfinding entities instead of pipes and so on.

It's not about having "one" tech tree. It's about having the GT/IC2 tech tree. And to do that you would need to disable half of TC.

And why break TC? Add it onto a pack with Ars Magica, Xeno's, Magic Bees, Thaumic Whachamacallit and idk, Thermal Expansion, and enjoy it as Azanor intended.

Aww poor MrMoo, if I'd seen the next posts after yours before I started typing I would be harvesting hemp in BtW instead of pummeling u

I'm surprised no-one mentioned any kind of MFFS system. I'm wondering what you guys think of this:
http://calclavia.com/mffs/

Do not worry about recipes. They can easily be tweaked. I'm supposed to be working on the GregTech recipes anyway, but I got sidetracked.

I perfer Thunderdark's version as it's apart of our forum here, and thunderdark is someone who I don't semi-despise.
And who would need it anyway? Noone is on the attack.

MrRainbow: I couldn't agree more. You can't fix a mod by making something more expensive or add diamonds.

Is Thunderdark's version still updated? Last I heard he gave it to Calclavia and left for the longest time.

I think someone has been updating it. There are two versions, Cal's and thunder's. The original remains unchanged.

Edit: i havn't been on in 8 months, so my info is outdated. Things changed, it's no longer being updated, nor seems unchanged.

You mean Minalien's?

That hasn't been updated in a long time, and probably will not be for a while. Last I heard, he decided to stop development of it.

I wouldn't want that mod on the server. I had hoped he wouldn't change it, but it changed dramatically. That's one reason I semi-despise Cal. Kinda killed thunder's work with his changes. The mod isn't necessary either, unless the server was at war.

Personally I think that EE3 would add a lot of depth to the server especially know that Pahimars making machines have EMC values now.

I TOTALLY WANT DIRT TO DIAMONDS!

(No)

With Invultri's permission, I say that one of the first things we do is kill the Ender Dragon. After we do, the Egg should go right to a Dragon Egg Energy Siphon at spawn, providing the energy for the entire early spawn. That way, there are no arguments as to who gets the Egg.