Suggestion : Handle enchantments somehow...

Quote from Ranakastrasz

I just expect plenty of mods to remove the new broken content, so as to free up those nice sprite IDs, and replace it with Useful content. Heck, I think last time I installed my huge set of mods I play with, I hit 8 IDs. I imagine notch used at least 8 more ids, so I suppose I will have to drop one next time, unless someone comes out with an anti-notch fix.

Been my biggest fear since modding day 1 with me... I'm still hopeful for a Forge fix where we can condense Notch's 'block footprint' to something much more managable... however, idk how to go about this without altering the architecture of Minecraft base entirely... Which, ironically, translates into a completely different game altogether... :-/

Still, I hope it can be done... otherwise a force-extend on our current slots limits may be the only other option that we have...

Quote from MagusUnion

Been my biggest fear since modding day 1 with me... I'm still hopeful for a Forge fix where we can condense Notch's 'block footprint' to something much more managable... however, idk how to go about this without altering the architecture of Minecraft base entirely... Which, ironically, translates into a completely different game altogether... :-/

Still, I hope it can be done... otherwise a force-extend on our current slots limits may be the only other option that we have...

2 years later, notch has used 252 of the sprite ids, then finially releases mod support......

He was going to do that mod support after the release right?

Yeah he was supposed to release mod support...and better villager AI....and multithreading...but instead he wrapped his flabby arms around as much money as he could and exited stage left.

Quote from Mensrea

Yeah he was supposed to release mod support...and better villager AI....and multithreading...but instead he wrapped his flabby arms around as much money as he could and exited stage left.

Precisely...

Quote

One thing that kind of fell between chairs is the mod support.. Sorry about that, I take full responsibility for letting that get forgotten about. But when it comes to the new launcher, it got folded into a new exciting project I won’t talk about yet.

That's the most Notch has spoken about mod support in too long of a time span...

I would definitely prefer that. I'm not keen on "magic" in Minecraft.

Quote from Alblaka

Considering the bugs and abusable possibilitys of the enchantment system, me and a studymate considered the possibility of plainly disabling enchantments via IC.
It wouldn't be hard to plainly override the ID of an enchantment table with something like dirt. This would cause any people using IC not to be able to cast enchantments, as long as the mod is active. this would prevent the basic issue of enchanting ICTools and Armors (which should be per se possible, causing super-ueber-QuantumSuits and stuff).
Instead i would probably offer a machine where players could convert their exp into research points. Research will be a feature of the CPU, reworking the current tiers and linking quite all stuff to new recipes containing blueprints. Blueprints are produced by Item+Loads of research .

Sounds great!, but question though.. wouldn't such overriding parameters require (once again) base class file modification? If not, then how does the Forge handle these exceptions to the Minecraft base overall?

Quote from Alblaka

Nope, not exactly.
The idea would be to assign a new value to the static "Block enchantmentTable" variable. It's kinda like relinking the ID to something new one.
In worst case it will delete all special attributes associated with those blocks (do they even have a specific data storage?).

At least in theory.

And if it doesn't work, i will just burn them with fire.

O.O.... which means that, assuming that this works, my ideas for Forge-like compartmentalization of original vMC content could work (thru a tedious, yet effective, system of remapping blocks to meta-data slots via ID reassignments)

But there is the problem with world generation, as I think Notch set that to being hard coded to each ID... *thinks*

Guess I know what I need to be doing over Thanksgiving break... lol

Quote from Alblaka

Nope, not exactly.
The idea would be to assign a new value to the static "Block enchantmentTable" variable. It's kinda like relinking the ID to something new one.
In worst case it will delete all special attributes associated with those blocks (do they even have a specific data storage?).

At least in theory.

And if it doesn't work, i will just burn them with fire.

I am rather frightened that you are considering disabling vanilla content just because it does not fit the theme of Industrial Craft.

Quote from Alblaka

I'm temporaryly disabling content that could probably cause a wide array of crashes and less serious issues.
Probably should (if done) a config toggle. But it must be possible to disable those things, otherwise griefers could, f.e., cause intentional crashes or corrupted items.

Temporarily? ..... Eh. Understandable, but I did not realize there was a rush to update to the newest version so quickly, especially considering there will most likely be a bugfix release. Or will this... problem take a long time to overcome?

Quote from Frantic Fanatic

I am rather frightened that you are considering disabling vanilla content just because it does not fit the theme of Industrial Craft.

That's why this is a Modification. By definition, it changes the way the basic game works. The mod already disables a lot of vanilla "content", but you don't mind that because it does so in ways you desire.
With this mod, you can overcome drowning, hunger, gravity... I'm not sure why the objection to removing enchantments and/or potions should be any different - especially considering that there will likely be more thematic alternatives.

If you only eliminated "notch" features outright I would be ecstatic. Replacing them with IC features is even better.

At this point I look at vanilla MC as more of an engine than a game.

Well said. It's like any other moddable game - what we have with IC/BC/RP etc is closer to a "total conversion" than it is an "add-on".
Mods like this bring us out of the Iron Age entirely. As always, my stance is to make the choices optional via a config - that way, the rare player who wants potions and enchantments with his machines can do so (who knows WHY) but the rest of us can keep magic out of our machinery!

Quote from HeadHunter67

That's why this is a Modification. By definition, it changes the way the basic game works. The mod already disables a lot of vanilla "content", but you don't mind that because it does so in ways you desire.
With this mod, you can overcome drowning, hunger, gravity... I'm not sure why the objection to removing enchantments and/or potions should be any different - especially considering that there will likely be more thematic alternatives.

Please do not presume that I mind or do not mind anything.

I also do not understand your statement, or at least your examples. Hunger, drowning, and gravity are still in the game, they are only 'disabled', to use your words, when wearing what is essentially end-game armor, or specialized items that prevent you from wearing real armor. What Al was proposing to do was completely disable an aspect of the game from the word go, just because it conflicts with items you may or may not use in the game.

Please do not assume I am here to attack Al. I am just here to express concern with that line of thinking.

I am rather intrigued, on the other hand, with the rather dim outlook on the enchanting feature expressed in this thread. Do people here hate Notch for modifying his game?

Quote from Frantic Fanatic

I am rather intrigued, on the other hand, with the rather dim outlook on the enchanting feature expressed in this thread. Do people here hate Notch for modifying his game?

I can't speak for anyone but myself but yes, I have nothing but contempt for notch.

I think the basic concepts of minecraft are very cool, but I despise the fantasy/medeval theme. On the other hand, I love the sci-fi theme. But either way I dont see how those two genres mix.

Im obviously biased though. If not for the mods I would not play minecraft at all.

I do not presume or assume anything - it's clear that you don't mind the changes IC has wrought, by virtue of the fact that you use it. You do use it, right? If I'm assuming anything, it's that you wouldn't be weighing an opinion on a mod you don't use.

I don't think you're attacking anyone - I simply feel that your concern is unfounded, because changing the game is what mods do. Some of them (even the best ones) completely remove or otherwise gate out "vanilla" content. It may be ""unheard of" in Minecraft to date, but it's nothing new to gaming.

I don't "hate" Notch for the changes he's made. In fact, I don't mind the new features at all. I simply feel that enchanting and potions are inconsistent with the theme of IndustrialCraft. I thought I'd makde that clear enough in my preceding posts. If I were playing "vanilla" Minecraft, I'd welcome the changes. The fact that I am here and playing IC should explain why I'd prefer to opt out.

Quote from Mensrea

I can't speak for anyone but myself but yes, I have nothing but contempt for notch.

I think the basic concepts of minecraft are very cool, but I despise the fantasy/medeval theme. On the other hand, I love the sci-fi theme. But either way I dont see how those two genres mix.

Im obviously biased though. If not for the mods I would not play minecraft at all.

Hrm. I myself was always a fan of magic VS technology, I think that was why I was a fan of the Engineering Profession and Tinkers in the Warcraft series. But then again, there is such a think as Magitek. (In fiction, obviously.) In fact, I still do have an idea in my head about a possible mod or gameplay rule for a server, in which a player would be locked into using either technology/modern tools or magic/fantasy.

No need to bash on the creator if he does not share your views on how the game should play, though. We wouldn't be here if he did not write the game. o.o