[Suggestion] Advance Machines.

1st Official Post

    Since this has not been brought up in a long long time I thought I would start.


    We were hoping someday we would see the other 3 main machines brought into the same aspect as the induction furnace and this has never happen. Now a mod was born and most people shutup about it. Now were back to every update half of us can't update because we can't survive without our Advance Machines.


    I can bet any money the author would love to have it added in the game so would a lot of other players and this is not taking it away from the author I mean mods are another way to express good ideas and great suggestions and I really think 900 replies and 200,000 views that maybe its time we consider adding in the advance machines into Vanilla IC?


    Like I said I bet the author would be more then flattered and I think it would make a lot of people happy to see that popular in demand mods get added into the core of the game because its really just another way we express a suggestion.


    Thanks,
    Kane


    PS: I guess I should really add more to this.


    So we like to see the following:
    Advance Macerator, Compressor, Extractor.
    Also the compact solar panel system is a must. It helps client/server performance none stop and why would anyone turn down 2048 packets attacking vs the 4 x 512 ;) for the HV Solar Panels!

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    I miss advanced machines :( i actually thought they WERE in ic2 1.64. You just ruined my day, poobutt.

    God blesses the child that can hold its own.

    I'll second this request for advanced machines.


    The compact generators, I can understand if they don't like the idea but in support of what zipp has done, the solar arrays save on space and EU packets, not resources! It takes a LOT of material to make a single HV solar. Comparable to a reactor and it's all iron and coal, not 60% tin and copper.

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    Efficiency 3, 50% duty cycle. SMP friendly. Alternate two of them slowly with an rp2 sequencer for a steady 120 EU/t.
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    Quote from raGan

    And how about overclockers and other machine upgrades ? You can make your own advanced machine now.

    Then Al should remove the Induction Furnace.


    Either there should be Advanced machines of all, or of none.


    ...I might be too OCD in that regard, but still.

    ...What? There's no pineapples here.


    GENERATION Pineapple: The first pineapple you see, copy it into your sig on any forum and add sqrt(-1) to the generation. Pineapple experiment.

    Yeah I agree. Induction furnace alone is better then all 4 of the advance machines. Bring us the 3 others or remove the 1 were confused by this type of game design hehe. But for sure bring in the compact solar panels. This will fix so many players issues with the slowdowns and such.


    The new overclocking system I guess is neat but its a bit rough. Uses a lot more power to get a decent speed and it makes starting from scratch a bore fest hehe. Maybe bring them in and disable them by default in the config?

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    Quote from Kane Hart

    Yeah I agree. Induction furnace alone is better then all 4 of the advance machines. Bring us the 3 others or remove the 1 were confused by this type of game design hehe. But for sure bring in the compact solar panels. This will fix so many players issues with the slowdowns and such.


    The new overclocking system I guess is neat but its a bit rough. Uses a lot more power to get a decent speed and it makes starting from scratch a bore fest hehe. Maybe bring them in and disable them by default in the config?

    Or have Advanced Machines integrated, but allow people to choose if they want the Adv. Machines, and if they want the Solar Arrays. Separately, as some people might want the arrays, but not the Adv. Machines. Or vise-versa.

    ...What? There's no pineapples here.


    GENERATION Pineapple: The first pineapple you see, copy it into your sig on any forum and add sqrt(-1) to the generation. Pineapple experiment.

    I find this to be a strange timing for this request.


    Overclockers just make your machines advanced, and alblaka already stated that if there is a good idea around about improving the whole upgrade-system he might look into it. There are suggestions like copying the nuclear-reactor concept. So just going back to take a simple block, place it and be happy seems to be a bit backward.


    I like the idea about having a macerator and improving it. But why not make a module that let's you macerate two items at once etc. It would rather like to see the design of upgrade-modules improved than having again new machines.

    Quote from raa1337

    Or have Advanced Machines integrated, but allow people to choose if they want the Adv. Machines, and if they want the Solar Arrays. Separately, as some people might want the arrays, but not the Adv. Machines. Or vise-versa.

    Options, Options hehe. We just need more options. Does not hurt to add both features and disable them. They added my fav lap crystal to miners!

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    If he wants to go the 'Only 1 Tier of Machines with upgrades' Route, then he should remove the Induction Furnace...


    If he wants to go the 'Tier 1 Machines with upgrades, and Tier 2 Machines, powerful, but can't be upgraded, and can be surpassed by Tier 1 eventually with enough upgrades' route, he should add the others.


    Regardless of the choice, I hope he adds the Solar Arrays, as they're just genius, and not totally expensive/OP. (Other then space requirements.)

    ...What? There's no pineapples here.


    GENERATION Pineapple: The first pineapple you see, copy it into your sig on any forum and add sqrt(-1) to the generation. Pineapple experiment.

    Quote from raa1337

    If he wants to go the 'Only 1 Tier of Machines with upgrades' Route, then he should remove the Induction Furnace...


    If he wants to go the 'Tier 1 Machines with upgrades, and Tier 2 Machines, powerful, but can't be upgraded, and can be surpassed by Tier 1 eventually with enough upgrades' route, he should add the others.


    Regardless of the choice, I hope he adds the Solar Arrays, as they're just genius, and not totally expensive/OP. (Other then space requirements.)


    Well if I look at the advanced machines and the Induction Furnace I clearly see some differences. The Induction-Furnace is more then just an advanced version of the electric-furnace. Oh and I'm fine with the solar-arrays, since they don't make them much different. Paying with Transformers for the reduced space is fine.


    If the advanced macerator would be more then just a faster version consuming more power the situation would be different. But if you want a faster version of the macerator put overclockers inside. Even with an advanced macerator doing just this, why should I even craft it if the overclockers are so incredible cheap?


    There are two scenarios:


    1. Overclockers are weaker than advanced machines, no one would use overclockers.
    2. Overclockers are stronger than advanced machines, everyone would use overclockers.


    The induction-furnace is an overall improvement to the electric furnace and I guess if he would have means to construct a modular system turning e-furnaces into induction-furnaces he might use it, but I guess it's quite hard to achieve, so he goes with two machines. But for just making things faster it seems kind of a waste to use new machines.

    And what if overclockers provide earlygame buff, while advanced machines provide more lategame buff.

    Hmm... this would work. But since overclockers are so incredible strong, it won't make much difference and it would be hard for the advanced machines to surpass the ability of the overclockers.


    So if there might be a second look upon upgrading machines I don't see a reason to use extra machines if overclockers do the same and allow more flexibility. Concept of modular machinery is far superior to just have advanced versions of machines, if they only do things faster. That is also true for the induction-furnace somehow, but since it is already there, there is no need to remove it and maybe some later high-tech-products could only be made inside an induction furnace (since it allows more precise and controlled heating maybe).

    This is how I see it.


    Tier 1 = Vanila Furnace
    Tier 2 = Iron/Electric Furnace/Macerator ETC.
    Tier 3 = Advance Machines
    Tier 4 = Heavily overclocked Tier 2


    But even that I rather have advance even if they were just a tad slower because I rather use them for the space they have and the special functions. Don't forget they still also drain 1 tick if left on. Make them drain 30 EU and 2-3 eu a tick and I would be happy I just like the features they offer for space and etc.. Just more convinence. It's almost like they were trying bring IC backworks and make it more hands on maintenance :P


    The solar arrays all in 1 block is a must. Not for just convince or being compact but because the way the who grid works and the code. This will reduce a lot of backend lag.



    If I had all the advance machines would I ever use the overclocks? Yes but clearly not mid and early game. to costly. But once I got a massive sorting system and pipes then damn right I want to move that stuff ASAP.


    Plus overclockers like said offer a nice bonus at first but you need mid game and the overclocks just have way to much impact. TBH I don't know why were overclocking the old none handy machines anyways :(

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    Quote from Bluehorazon

    Hmm... this would work. But since overclockers are so incredible strong, it won't make much difference and it would be hard for the advanced machines to surpass the ability of the overclockers.


    So if there might be a second look upon upgrading machines I don't see a reason to use extra machines if overclockers do the same and allow more flexibility. Concept of modular machinery is far superior to just have advanced versions of machines, if they only do things faster. That is also true for the induction-furnace somehow, but since it is already there, there is no need to remove it and maybe some later high-tech-products could only be made inside an induction furnace (since it allows more precise and controlled heating maybe).

    Induction furnance is special, since it provides multiple times faster processing and ~same EU cost compared to Electric furnance. This cannot be achieved using upgrades now. I was thinking about making upgrades non-stackable and tiered (2-3 tiers), so advanced machines will actually be used later in game, when player has enough resources to invest in more advanced machinery. To make player even cosider upgrading to advanced machines, their efficiency has to be increased like with Induction furnance. Also advanced machine recipe can be made of Basic machine + all its upgrades + something more.


    Another idea is to make even advanced machines upgradeable. And when upgrades are not stackable, most rational way of advancing would be: Basic machine -> Upgraded Basic machine -> Advanced machine -> Upgraded advanced machine. Making it impossible to use Tier 2 upgrade on Basic machine (and Tier 1 upgrade on Advanced ones) will help to not skip third step in this case.

    Since the OC system is in place, i feel Advanced machines are way too good for the actual price it takes to make them... But there is a way to make some advanced machines that wont feel like cheting:


    Tier 1 Machines = Vainilla stuff removing the Upgrade slots
    Tier 2 Machines = Machines with Upgrade slots and 1 extra space for Output.
    Tier 3 Machines = Machines with Upgrade slots and 2 extra space for Input and 4 extra slots for Output.


    Remove the "heat" system, if you want to process stuff faster theres the OC's.

    Yeah but again, why not use the module system to further improve the machines instead of creating totally new machines.


    Would be easy to make a storage-module that gives your machine an additional input and output-slot (so if the machines finishs the first stack it is put into the output slot and the next input is taken). Or modules that make it possible to do more operations at the same time. Under quite ideal circumstances you would only place a machine-block and put certain modules inside to turn it into a macerator/compressor etc. But there would be some nasty coding involved, which makes it highly unlikely.


    I like the solar-idea. It's nice and reasonable. And the tradeoff you have to pay for compressing your solars seems good (64 LV-T, 8 MV-T and 1 HV-T ^^). But for the advanced machines I would rather like improvements to the module-system.

    Quote from Bluehorazon

    Yeah but again, why not use the module system to further improve the machines instead of creating totally new machines.


    Would be easy to make a storage-module that gives your machine an additional input and output-slot (so if the machines finishs the first stack it is put into the output slot and the next input is taken). Or modules that make it possible to do more operations at the same time. Under quite ideal circumstances you would only place a machine-block and put certain modules inside to turn it into a macerator/compressor etc. But there would be some nasty coding involved, which makes it highly unlikely.


    I like the solar-idea. It's nice and reasonable. And the tradeoff you have to pay for compressing your solars seems good (64 LV-T, 8 MV-T and 1 HV-T ^^). But for the advanced machines I would rather like improvements to the module-system.

    Hey that might be a good idea. But meh that idea will take them ages. Only takes them 10min to do this and no texture work if they add advance ones lol

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    Quote

    Hey that might be a good idea. But meh that idea will take them ages. Only takes them 10min to do this and no texture work if they add advance ones lol


    But again, there is the addon. I guess the only reason this suggestion is here is because the addon isn't updated for 1.64