Tin-saving suggestion (mainly for purpose of making bio fuel a viable choice)

Quote from Rick

I never understood why renewable energy uses nonrenewable resources.

This.

Or the canner could just return empty cells (and ONLY the canner, no other machines) (inb4 NO!)

Why not just use forestry for your biofuel needs?

Just a question.

I do support the better tweaking of fuel ( in general) to be more re-useable friendly, so march on.

I find it hard not to agree. I came searching for answers on a similar question. Why are the cells wasted? You craft cells out of tin, fill them and empty them, and then they go *poof*. Where do they go? Biofuel is a *renewable* energy source. Just like solar, water and wind. The tin is used. It's not renewable. You can't stay in one place using biofuel forever.
Same goes for all the other cells, when they're used, the tin can magically dissapears.

I really don't care if you're making a whole city out of tin at some point in the future. Go ahead, that sounds like fun. The FUN in the game is being able to run something efficiently so you can relax and not worry about wasting materials.

It really put me off IC2 that there's no regain for something so simple as cells.

Thanks!

Gunpowder is a renewable resource, so duh your argument is waste, as i said biofuel gives u more eu.

BTW if tin cells were reusable some of those eu cost would go down and it would become more usefull.
And you misscalculated if I got u right:
your saying tin cells cost 2000 Eu? and are worth 12000 eu that means in your calculation of burning the saplings instead, u have to add
10000(12000-2000(unless u allready had that calculated into those 12000)), instead of 12000, which means biofuel is worth more even without gunpowder.

Even if all of your comment would make sense, it means we should either buff biofuel or nerf watermills?
And you still did not give a reason why biofuel is nonrenewable.

PS:
I do not understand how lv-transformers are better than batboxes??
Which setup would i need to run?
I bet some people will not agree with you in "Solar Energy is useless"!

I support the idea of:

1. reusable tin cans
2. or the possibility of making tin-like cans out of other renewable materials.

Quote from Noodles

I support the idea of:

1. reusable tin cans
2. or the possibility of making tin-like cans out of other renewable materials.

Here here.

I'd DL that addon.

Quote from Noodles

Gunpowder is a renewable resource, so duh your argument is waste, as i said biofuel gives u more eu.

BTW if tin cells were reusable some of those eu cost would go down and it would become more usefull.
And you misscalculated if I got u right:
your saying tin cells cost 2000 Eu? and are worth 12000 eu that means in your calculation of burning the saplings instead, u have to add
10000(12000-2000(unless u allready had that calculated into those 12000)), instead of 12000, which means biofuel is worth more even without gunpowder.

Even if all of your comment would make sense, it means we should either buff biofuel or nerf watermills?
And you still did not give a reason why biofuel is nonrenewable.

PS:
I do not understand how lv-transformers are better than batboxes??
Which setup would i need to run?
I bet some people will not agree with you in "Solar Energy is useless"!

I support the idea of:

1. reusable tin cans
2. or the possibility of making tin-like cans out of other renewable materials.

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Gunpowder is renewable, but that is another thing you have to be sitting next to make it work, as mobs only spawn 128 blocks away from you. And yes, biofuel is worth than it costs to make it if you add gunpowder to it, but that requires you to be near the mob spawner, so you can't go mining while you do that. Going hunting for creepers nets you about 8k EU per gunpowder if used optimally, so in the long run, in under an hour, the time spent in mining has gained you way more energy even if you build your inefficient solar panels.
Your suggestion of nerfing watermills that use water cells doesn't really work out as a tin bar used that way nets you just 8k EU.
About the LV-transformers, set them up like this:

This setup can be used to transfer 128EU/t, you will need to place every second transformers triple-dot side left and in the rest of them facing right.
Solar energy is pretty much useless when compared to anything else as it costs a lot and doesn't really have any other perks than taking a small amount of space and being "fire-and-forget". Windmills produce more on average and watermills can be placed anywhere, though both require much more room to be used effectively.

Okay, this is just me giving a stupid idea, but why not make it to where less tin cells are produced, but remain renewable?

Currently, it's 4 tin bars to make 16 cells, right? Why not make it 4 tin bars and 4 renewable cells? The only problem is, where would the empty cells go? You'd have to put a chest or add a slot in the items to accept the now empty cells.

Hmm, oh well, just a thought.

"
This setup can be used to transfer 128EU/t, you will need to place every second transformers triple-dot side left and in the rest of them facing right."

Yes, but it will increase losses for copper cable (*4, because of 128=32*4)

Quote from GregoriusT

Nope, there is absolutely NO Energyloss due to the Transformers. Oh and you clicked the wrong Quotebutton.

If transporting 128 EU/t why isn`t the copper cable melting.

Quote from GregoriusT

Yes but TNT and Coalbased Fuel are much better for that.

Still not getting the point someone who relies on renewable energy will not make TNT nor coal-fuel!
(Coal is for Diamonds(as far as i am concerned), and what would i need TNT for ???) Coolness is relative do not argue with it!

Please do not missquote

Quote from Noodles

And you misscalculated if I got u right:

I seem to have understood you wrong i apologize.

Quote from GregoriusT

These "some People" are Noobs, who also say that Solar is OP.

Try to be nice, who uses the word Noob anyway, maybe someone with the Ego of a stone.

SO back to the actual discussion.
Why not just make:
-Cells reusable
-Cells craftable from renewable resources
?

The comment "Uh i have enough Tin" was heard.(not quite sure if heard is the correct word, still a German)

I'd personally like to short circuit the whole biofuel process and just burn the plant balls - either one by one, or craft four together so they'll be as compact as charcoal. I have a thread on this at http://forum.industrial-craft.…page=Thread&threadID=6280 .

Quote from Noodles

If transporting 128 EU/t why isn`t the copper cable melting.

Still not getting the point someone who relies on renewable energy will not make TNT nor coal-fuel!
(Coal is for Diamonds(as far as i am concerned), and what would i need TNT for ???) Coolness is relative do not argue with it!

Please do not missquote

I seem to have understood you wrong i apologize.

Try to be nice, who uses the word Noob anyway, maybe someone with the Ego of a stone.

SO back to the actual discussion.
Why not just make:
-Cells reusable
-Cells craftable from renewable resources
?

The comment "Uh i have enough Tin" was heard.(not quite sure if heard is the correct word, still a German)

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i can back up what GregoriusT is saying. there is no power loss or melting using transformers every 4 blocks on a LV circuit, and transformers are cheaper than batboxes. also I use the word noob too. it communicates that someone is new and inexperienced more efficiently than newbie, new person, or inexperienced individual. I say just add a tin crop yourself if you want it so bad alblaka made modding agriculture super easy with cropcards.

Well i have already gotten a solution for the problem, kind of, it was more about the Idea that the game may be unbalanced in this aspect, since as we have heard bio-fuel does not give enough EU for the effort, from someone who does not support the idea ... whatever bio-fuel also is a non renewable resource and so i am bringing forward the idea of changing this aspect of the game. (i hope I don`t have to be scared that the dragon-king will eat me , it this instead ).

[use for bio fuel]=[high altitude jetpack fun] nuff said

Why tin is not a renewable resourse, if it is, even without generating new chunks.
Even more it is renewable by 2, and soon, even 3 different ways+can be automated.

The fact is nobody uses biofuel. 9/10 ppl start with normal gens then go geo then they start spamming solars, windgens or watermills or they go nuclear. Biofuel and Coalfuel just cant compete with those and arent even considered when choosing what to do. They are more a fun feature but dont have any functionality except that jetpack.

Quote from GregoriusT

Sorry if i'm now on old IC²-Wiki Information, but Blazerods are not burning in a Generator.

They do burn in a generator, but they produce just 6k/piece so I don't get the idea behind that. Farming charcoal is easier/cheaper/faster.

Quote

Biofuel and Coalfuel just cant compete with those and arent even considered when choosing what to do.

64*4000=256.000 EU from one stack of coal.

64:6=~10 cans of fuel from tack of coal. Thats ~764400 EU.
But you need 7*10=70 tin ingots for fuel cans, and 6*10=60 tin for cells+you'll have some seperate cells.
70+60=130 tin dust, 130:2=65 tin ore, ~~768 EU per operation, 65*768=49920 EU for all the tin.
764400-49920=714480.

And now look at the wall of text with counting for the coalfuel. See the difference?

Quote

They do burn in a generator, but they produce just 6k/piece so I don't get the idea behind that.

8 minutes of fire resistance potion is enough to get ~32 blaze rods. And its only if you haven't got looting sword.
32*6000=192.000 EU.
Sooner or later you'll get your looting III, i get 64+-15 rods. Sometimes more.
70*6000=420.000
But you can have TWO spawners nearby, so instead of waiting till blazes spawn again you can go to the 2nd. That will get you even more rods.