[Addon v1.112+] Liquid UU-Matter v0.7.12b (now officially retired)

  • Great mod!

    Thank you kindly!


    [...]the one thing that would set this over the top is more uses for the liquid. Though I have no idea what it could otherwise be used for currently.

    Yeah, I know, right? A couple of options have already suggested themselves so far, but I need to take some time and look at them properly.


    It's a shame that Electrolyzed Cells aren't implemented as a liquid, would make my mod a bit more interesting and would allow those handy UU refinery creations. Might end up doing it myself if I get the time though.

    Funny you mentioned that, as it was one of the proposed compromises to having a Liquid UU-powered generator, and it's actually the one that kind of stuck in my mind. If you do end up implementing it before I have time, I want to see it.

    Yayp! I've always wanted some Liquid EU storage ^^.

    Those are encouraging words! I'll take a look at it the next time I'm fiddling with LiquidUU, which may not be terribly soon as I have a little backlog of things that need finishing first.

  • Another "silent" update to the 0.7.10 experimental: I've put Thermal Expansion integration back in because we have it now! I should actually use the Forestry beta, too, and make this a full release, but I'm lazy at the moment. Check back in a few hours.

  • can you make a way to craft specific amounts of regular items using liquid UU-matter (maybe with carpenter? perhaps a new device?).
    It uses units of thousands so it shouldn't be a big problem.


    (say, 6 uu matter makes 64 [item], so if you put any number of [item] in a carpentercaster and give it power and liquid it will output twice as many [item] for 94 mB liquid uu matter per [item]. It can be very very close to the real recipe,in this example, 0.25% less efficient than the regular crafting)


    unless there is already a way and i just missed it somehow...

  • can you make a way to craft specific amounts of regular items using liquid UU-matter?

    Huh, that's not a bad idea. Surprisingly, for such an obvious application, I never thought of it before, but it makes sense. I'll put it in the future plans.

  • And the update everyone's been waiting for (yeah, sure): LiquidUU 0.7.10, bringing up completely up to date with everyone and everything. Do note that the experimental version has gotten removed and now 404s, because it really was experimental, like it said in the name.


    Remember to report all bugs and crashes!

  • I don't crash with the new 1.4.6 version, but I do see this buried in the log:


  • Did you perhaps mix up the experimental and non-experimental 0.7.10 versions? The experimental one *is* missing the Forestry integration (there wasn't one at the time, it's why it's called experimental), but the released one doesn't (tested with Forestry 1.6.4.1).

  • If you add a block for it and implement some way to drink it I'll DL (I don't care what it does to my body, I just want to swim in and drink UUM. Delicious, delicious UUM).


    Also, I rather like the idea of UUM being used to duplicate rather than create. Perhaps the entire UUM system should be redesigned in this spirit (craft 1 iron ore with 5 UUM to get 3)? Refresh my memory, is it possible to specify stack size of ingredients in a crafting recipe?

  • If you add a block for it and implement some way to drink it I'll DL (I don't care what it does to my body, I just want to swim in and drink UUM. Delicious, delicious UUM).

    It's very tempting to make it kill you if you drink it :P Honestly, as much as I do like having people play with and appreciate my work, I'm not going to be prioritizing this very high -- but I do like the idea of having a liquid UU block.


    Also, I rather like the idea of UUM being used to duplicate rather than create. Perhaps the entire UUM system should be redesigned in this spirit (craft 1 iron ore with 5 UUM to get 3)? Refresh my memory, is it possible to specify stack size of ingredients in a crafting recipe?

    Sadly, no, but that is a very interesting idea nonetheless when combined with the earlier one: that of having a way to use fractional UU to limit the number of items you create. I can even call the machine a Replicator. Thank you!

  • Did you perhaps mix up the experimental and non-experimental 0.7.10 versions? The experimental one *is* missing the Forestry integration (there wasn't one at the time, it's why it's called experimental), but the released one doesn't (tested with Forestry 1.6.4.1).


    Ah yes, that was it. I hadn't realized there were two versions, I'm okay now, thanks!

  • Not sure how long it will take me to figure it out, but let me update my forge to the latest version and try to get it working again. For some reason the ic2 api can't find the minecraft base files. Though I was thinking that if it is implemented as a liquid it could use a machine to produce it. Have it lose functionality with tin cells and just allow it to accept energy and water and output the liquid or accept the liquid and output water and energy. I was thinking about using it in a creative way to create new energy storage items. Though I'm a little confused about what I need to handle in my code and what the IC2 api provides for me as far as the charged energy items go. But alas, I will figure it out at some point.


    On another note, I did come up with a suggestion for this mod though. Liquid ratio options in the config file. Might just be me personally but I think the biomass and apple juice conversions are a bit underpowered.


    Since 2 uu = 1 biofuel
    and 2 uu = 6 apple juice.
    Apple juice provides a 1.5 output gain for biomass so ultimately that gives 9 biomass plus a minor amount of surplus after processing (assuming saplings are used with mulch).
    Since it distills at a 10:3 ratio, we aren't even talking making 3 biofuel for the additional input of materials and power.


    Not to mention the fact that bio fuel has 1/3 the power of regular buildcraft fuel.


    So in order to balance it out I think the bio fuel amount per uu should be buffed, as well as the apple juice along with it to provide some benefit to use it. Afterall, why not just dump all the UU in to fuel?
    I would prefer to be able to store apple juice and process it for a greater amount of bio fuel, so the saplings and mulch added are worth the effort.


    Which in turn means 2 uu + 1 bio fuel = 4 bio fuel.
    Which gives the same amount of MJ per fuel usage.


    If bio fuel remains unchanged that gives
    1 uu + 1 apple juice = 5 apple juice. which gives a slight more than 3 biofuel for every 2 uum.


    If adjusted to the biofuel buff I suggested earlier
    1 uu + 1 apple juice = 13 apple juice.


    That way the recipies are on par with each other, I might do the math for seed oil, but later. Even then the bio fuels are at a disadvantage because they require more tank storage. But that is the price paid for being able to maintain the same fuel types that are easily produced without having to add more tanks.


    But then if you implemented config file adjustments of all of this each server owner could adjust it as they saw fit, though having better balanced conversions to start is a nice idea.


    Damn, I have way too much free time on my hands to mathematically figure all this out XD But my super powerful and eco friendly power generation setup is going to be worth it. The joys of railcraft, forestry, cbm, and ofcourse ic2.

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  • [...electrolyzed water...]

    I was thinking of implementing the machine to make it as a variant of the existing electrolyzer that needs to have two tanks (Buildcraft tanks were the ones I had in mind) next to it. It would then function much like an electrolyzer next to a storage device: when it had more than 75% stored energy it would try to convert some water from one tank into electrolyzed water in the other tank, and vice-versa when it was below 25%. The machine would either sit next to an energy storage block like the regular electrolyzer, or it would be capable of accepting and outputting EUs itself, whichever was simplest. The most interesting part of this potential implementation is that the machine wouldn't even have any liquid storage itself -- it would just use liquids from tanks next to it, which cleanly satisfies the problem of "how do you get the right liquid in while being able to get the right liquid out?".


    On another note, I did come up with a suggestion for this mod though. Liquid ratio options in the config file. Might just be me personally but I think the biomass and apple juice conversions are a bit underpowered.

    I did mention in the OP the liquid duplication ratios are not balanced, so making them configurable sounds like an excellent idea. Likewise, the work you've put into calculating some good ratios is probably good (I haven't read it in detail yet), so if you'd like to do the math and give me numbers for everything to make the defaults, I'll take it and credit you in the OP for it.


  • Hmmm interesting thought for the liquid electrolyzer block, kind of like thermal expansion. Though maybe it could have a button in the gui to determine which liquids to accept and output. Atleast in my usage it would require this since more than likely I and possibly others will use teleport pipes with railcraft tanks to provide storage. Having railcraft tanks next to each other would be quite a limitation. Also I would think having it accept power like a machine would be easier since it is implemented in the ic2 api, though id have to see if it has adjacent energy blocks as an option. But if implemented as a standard machine it can be connected via cable or have energy sources placed next to it and just wrench the sides.


    Not to mention it would be really cool if it could take machine upgrades like the overclocker. Though testing would have to be done to get it all just right. Might make this lower tier of power more useful if it can be coaxed in to outputting higher amounts of energy.


    I would be more than happy to run the numbers and balance out all your fluids, just give me some time to write it all up and make it look nice and readable and show the math involved so you can double check it. Due to the nature of forestry it seems there are some ways to interpret "balanced" for some of the fluids so I will try my best to come up with some different options for them. I have a tendency to type fast and spit out text blocks, so let me know if you need any rewording or formatting. Feel free to post my explanation as well if people request it, or if you think people would be interested in it.


    Also, Forestry Crushed Ice would be a good idea to implement. Cause damn bees >.< For now I would recommend 1 uu + 1 crushed ice = 2 crushed ice since it is 10x more efficient than water and your water recipe currently gives 10 water.


    I will also probably attach my original mod idea for giggles. I think you will like it, though it is out of the current scope of this mod. Hopefully I can get my dev environment going soon so we can get some cross integration going if you'd like.


    Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. Gonna get back to shaking my fist at java and start on that write-up.

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  • Hmmm interesting thought for the liquid electrolyzer block, kind of like thermal expansion. Though maybe it could have a button in the gui to determine which liquids to accept and output. Atleast in my usage it would require this since more than likely I and possibly others will use teleport pipes with railcraft tanks to provide storage. Having railcraft tanks next to each other would be quite a limitation.

    I may be missing something, but it seems to me that using external tanks just gives you more block faces to attach input or output pipes to. If you want to only have it electrolyze, keep the water tank full at all times; if you want to only have it do the opposite, keep it empty at all times. This should just externalize the internal tanks that blocks like the aqueous accumulator have, and if I do it right, I can even give you the tank state in the machine's GUI, scaled to whatever size tank happens to be adjacent. Certainly, you *could* have those be Railcraft tanks, but you wouldn't need to -- just use Buildcraft tanks and teleport your water in and electrolyzed water out of each of them, or the opposite, while still using the Railcraft tanks as long-term storage.


    Also I would think having it accept power like a machine would be easier since it is implemented in the ic2 api, though id have to see if it has adjacent energy blocks as an option. But if implemented as a standard machine it can be connected via cable or have energy sources placed next to it and just wrench the sides.

    I can see several interesting options, and I agree I don't think I'd *want* to mess with an adjacent energy block, even though the option does exist. My preferred choice would be a Thermal Expansion style side selection, where a side can be water tank, electrolyzed water tank, EU in or EU out, which also gives us the option of having an instance of the machine act in one direction only, e.g. if it only has faces for EU in and none for EU out, it may as well work only to turn water into electrolyzed and never do the opposite action. Having fixed sides is a compromise that would involve a lot of possible rotation options, and the IC2 wrench is not a screwdriver that would let us have different kinds of rotations on click vs. shift-click (referencing screwdriver on frame motors, if that's not obvious).


    Not to mention it would be really cool if it could take machine upgrades like the overclocker. Though testing would have to be done to get it all just right. Might make this lower tier of power more useful if it can be coaxed in to outputting higher amounts of energy.

    Mhm, overclocker to make it process more water at a time at the cost of reduced efficiency, transformer to make it accept/produce higher-voltage current (which would also make it process more water at a time, but at fixed steps and without the efficiency loss). Storage upgrades just to increase its internal buffer seem less useful, but they might help -- and it's not like we *have to* have special behaviour for it.


    I would be more than happy to run the numbers and balance out all your fluids, just give me some time to write it all up and make it look nice and readable and show the math involved so you can double check it. [...] Feel free to post my explanation as well if people request it, or if you think people would be interested in it.

    Mhm, I'd greatly appreciate that, as I don't actually play enough Minecraft to really be concerned about it. Balancing was on my "to do" list only if it ever got enough on my nerves to make it worthwhile.


    Also, Forestry Crushed Ice would be a good idea to implement.[...]

    Yeah, I'd actually forgotten about it (and IC2 coolant, and Railcraft's creosote oil) until after that Forestry integration release, and when I realized that, I ended up deciding it wasn't worth another version bump just to add another liquid or two. After that, I suppose it never really came up again.



    Here's an interesting problem: if we have electrolyzed water as a liquid, we could potentially make electrolyzed liquid UU -- either as a combination of the two, or by passing regular UU through the liquid electrolyzer. I'm not sure, however, what that would accomplish. One aspect suggests itself immediately: electrolyzed UU is more (twice as?) powerful in the accelerator, letting you do more with less UU, by supercharging it after the fact. Another aspect pokes into BeamMeUp, where we were kicking around the idea of using liquid UU to reduce rematerialization costs -- perhaps electrolyzed UU would reduce them further, or perhaps it should be the only variant that actually does the EU cost reduction, I'm not sure which would make the most sense. However, this seems like limited (and boring!) utility for something that should be exceptionally awesome, so if you have any ideas what electrolyzed UU should do that regular UU can't, I'd welcome the thoughts.


    Also, if it's not obvious from the last two posts, I am quite eager to make this liquid electrolyzer now, particularly as I have a fair idea of how it would work, internally. Might take me a while to work out the parts I'm not sure about, though (like the configurable sides, and the textureFX for electrolyzed water). Expect some kind of progress report in the next 24 hours.

  • Right, progress report: less than I wanted, but I can't seem to keep my mind on what i'm doing so I'll drop it for the moment.


    What I managed to do: I made the electrolyzed water liquid (including a textureFX that derives from the regular liquidFX) and verified that it can be placed in tanks, and I made some interim textures for the liquid electrolyzer's many faces (but I haven't made the machine yet, so meh). I'm not particularly proud of either, I'm not a texture artist, I'm just barely able to bodge things together when I need them, but check them out anyway: here's where the 0.7.11 experimental lives.


    If someone wants to chip in, I'd welcome a texture for the liquid electrolyzer face, or if you have a dev environment set up, feel free to fork it and make me a pull request implementing as much of the new machine as you feel comfortable with. As an implementation note, if you get to the part about textures, the defaults should be: top == EU in (texture index 17), bottom == EU out (texture 18 ), left (ForgeDirection.getRotation(ForgeDirection.UP, front)) == water tank (texture 19), right (ForgeDirection.getRotation(ForgeDirection.DOWN, front)) == electrolyzed water tank (texture 20); the front should obviously have the FACE texture at index 16, and the opposite of the face should default to the blank texture at index 21. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, don't worry, it's what I'll do the next time I'm working on this project.

  • can you make the recepi to the Accelerator cost a little bit more? like a LOt more? its a power full tool, if you have uu matter so i would think it would be a complicated machine.

  • can you make the recepi to the Accelerator cost a little bit more? like a LOt more? its a power full tool, if you have uu matter so i would think it would be a complicated machine.

    I think the logic behind the Accelerator was that you had already paid a lot for the MassFab (MatterFab if you're using GregTech Hard Mode), so you should pay less for the Accelerator.

  • Got my dev environment working so that's good, hopefully can get around with playing with some things.


    Maybe have Electrolyzed Water and Liquid UU as a refinery recipe and output the charged UU? That way it would also be configurable easily for balance purposes and just makes more sense to me that way. The only possible downside is that it prevents generation of electrolyzed water using UUM which I don't think should be a feature anyway. But it also reduces the amount of coding to have the Liquid Electrolyzer also accept UUM and the Electrolyzed Water. Though I do like the idea of the charged UUM to provide a double processing amount for the accelerator.


    One other idea for it might be the creation of shaped charged explosives. Not entirely sure of the chemistry of UUM but it could work.


    I really do like the idea of a thermal expansion type configurable faces, makes the logic of what things to input and output simplified. And I see what you mean now for the tanks, would in a way make it a multi-block structure which is cool.


    As for the other liquids, I also agree that it isn't worth a major version release, but maybe just as the other new features get added just slip them in.


    Keep up the good work, I am getting all kinds of excited for this again :D. Glad I could be of at least some assistance. Now to mess around and get those liquid ratios.

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  • can you make the recepi to the Accelerator cost a little bit more? like a LOt more? its a power full tool, if you have uu matter so i would think it would be a complicated machine.


    I think the logic behind the Accelerator was that you had already paid a lot for the MassFab (MatterFab if you're using GregTech Hard Mode), so you should pay less for the Accelerator.

    Correct, the Accelerator itself is perfectly fine in terms of expense -- if you make one but have no UU, you can't do anything with it!


    Maybe have Electrolyzed Water and Liquid UU as a refinery recipe and output the charged UU? That way it would also be configurable easily for balance purposes and just makes more sense to me that way. The only possible downside is that it prevents generation of electrolyzed water using UUM which I don't think should be a feature anyway.

    Indeed, making electrolyzed water with UU would either be bad, or useless.


    But it also reduces the amount of coding to have the Liquid Electrolyzer also accept UUM and the Electrolyzed Water.

    Nah, we're talking just a few lines of code. I'm thinking the LE should have an API to allow other people to add recipes to it anyway... and that makes me wonder if we do actually have enough tech mods, 'cause I could definitely see myself adding a furnace that produces (liquid) molten slag that you'd turn into ingots via another machine. Crazy, huh?


    Though I do like the idea of the charged UUM to provide a double processing amount for the accelerator.

    Yes, but it's boring! It doesn't do anything special, and that's just not right. We'll leave out the charged UUM for now, and if I see any ideas for using it, I can always add it in later.


    One other idea for it might be the creation of shaped charged explosives. Not entirely sure of the chemistry of UUM but it could work.

    An interesting idea, but I really don't want to deal with explosives yet. I'm also thinking that charged UUM is somewhat expensive, and explosives... shouldn't be, otherwise nobody will use them. When's the last time you went mining with TNT/ITNT? I'm one of the people who enjoys that, but even I haven't bothered, even though gunpowder isn't much of a problem anymore for me.


    Keep up the good work, I am getting all kinds of excited for this again :D. Glad I could be of at least some assistance. Now to mess around and get those liquid ratios.

    Mwahaha! It's fun, isn't it, watching something you only talked about in theory turn into something "tangible"?