[Addon 1.112] Petroleum Generator 1.2.1 - burn baby burn.. for EU!

  • If you have NEI-IC2 Burn plugin or lately just Mistaqurs NEI plugin it shows eu value for every fuel that can be burned in a IC2 generator...and it shows 50000 eu/lava....and I'm pretty sure he get's his data from source code.

    Yes, in a generator. Not a Geothermal generator.


    The geothermal generator (reading from 1.106 source here) will produce 20 EU and consume 1 fuel every tick. It gains 1000 fuel from one bucket of lava (or lava cell), which, through basic algebra, tells us it will produce a total of 20,000 EUs out of 1,000 millibuckets of lava.


    As for lava's value in the generator, again reading from 1.106 source, the generator will *refuse* to accept lava buckets. They are, in fact, explicitly exempted from burning in the basic generator because the geogen exists. Lava cells do not need to be explicitly mentioned because they do not have a fuel value, and what Mistaqur's NEI plugin really shows is the item's fuel value multiplied by 10 (or whatever the value of energyGeneratorBase is in your IC2.cfg, if non-default).

  • I have to say that a really good idea would be an IC refinery. Currently you would really need to run your refinery using a buildcraft engine to make using this generator efficient. I'll have to play around with numbers to see what it might look like.

    A multiblock structure for such a refinery would be quite cool and in line with some of the cool things being done by CJ in railcraft. Are there any other IC2 multiblock machines out there currently, other than the steam turbine in RC?

    @Multiblock-stuctures: Nuclear Reactor ? ^^
    @Refinery: Well, I was going to create an account on the BC forum for this, but if you are ready to implement it ... ^^ Here are some Idea:


    The Refinery would be Multi Block structure in parts:
    -The Heater: it would consume energy depending on the Heat you want: 32 EU/t while increasing, 5 EU/t*percentage of heat you've put with the GUI, would increase by 1% per sec and decrease (when unfeeded by EU) by the same 1% (basically the same that Induction Furnace).
    -The tank: it would be a structure from 3 Block high to 5. the basical 3 block would need a Heat-level of 25% min to work (with more chance of creating byproduct for a higher level). The block 4 would need 50% of Heat and 75% for the 5. Each block would give its product in different slots, with cells for liquid [or you could also use Pipes].


    List of Products/Byproducts for each level of the refinery. Between "[" are indicated the "n" used in the formula I will give for the probability of getting the products --> (Current Heat-Level - Heat-Level needed for that block [I mean as an example, 75% for the fifth block] +25% [as this is the basic Heat-levek to work])*n. Of course this is "per Oil Source". This could be a bit buffed with Refined Oil (not to avoid using BC), and would also not provide Refined Oil ^^

    1- Coal Dust[0.33], sand [0.1] --> The only one decreasing with heat.
    2- Refined Oil [1] (^^), Rubbers [2]
    3- Advanced Fuel [0.25] (would provide 2 times the Refined Oil Energy value, at the same rate).
    4- Gas [0.15] (would provide 2.5 times the Refined Oil Energy value, but at twice the rate)
    5- Hydrogen [0.05] (This HIGLY valueable fuel can burn for up to 500 000 EU per bucket, at the amazing rate of 100 EU/t!)


    It could have compatibility with Gregtech and advanced gen ;)
    If you don't understand what I meanted ... ask me ^^. I've been quite ununderstandable with all these parenthesis ^^.


    Suggestion-Complaining: I think Oil and Refined Oil should worth more EU and give more EU/t. Why ? Because it's currently a bit UP compared to Lava ... I would suggest 30 000 EU/Oil Bucket and 200 000 EU / Refined Oil Bucket.


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

  • Props for doing this :). I realized the 2/5 conversion rate was broken a while ago, still thinking of solutions that will not break my EU->MJ->EU 95% conversion efficiency :(

  • Props for doing this :). I realized the 2/5 conversion rate was broken a while ago, still thinking of solutions that will not break my EU->MJ->EU 95% conversion efficiency :(



    I use a ratio of 3:4 for my config. and the numbers are fairly reasonable with that method...


    Keep in mind this: In real life, internal combustion systems are fairly reliable not because of how they are designed, but at how much heat and force that comes from the chemical reactions within the fuels. It's no surprise that BC fuel gets numbers that hinge close to the outputs for nuclear generation. Getting around 100k to 150k per bucket is a fairly reasonable output to consider if you think about all the carbon material within oil that gets consumed. Plus, don't underestimate the effectiveness of chemical bonding, your body runs off that shit :P


    So yes, I don't see why those high outputs should be that unrealistic/game breaking at all...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • Quote

    The geothermal generator (reading from 1.106 source here) will produce 20 EU and consume 1 fuel every tick. It gains 1000 fuel from one bucket of lava (or lava cell), which, through basic algebra, tells us it will produce a total of 20,000 EUs out of 1,000 millibuckets of lava.


    *does a quick test*


    Oh, well that's fascinating...


    Thermal Expansion's Magmatic Engines reflect more of the core heat value of Lava, and therefor output more EU via conversion than standard Geothermal Generators. Not much though. It's only a 4k difference, but it's enough to make a Redstone Energy setup worth the investment...


    (And since I keep getting trapped in snow biomes with no damn rubber, Thermal Ex is about the only tech I can really rely on... lol)


    Edit: After doing an EU test, the Magmatic Engines produce a total of 1.55 MEu after a full stack of lava cell consumption. This includes spin-up time for engine heating. Standard EU production off a normal Geo grid is 1.28 MEu...
    (and this is off the 3:4 ratio as well)


    so there's an increase of about 17% power when using these engines in comparison to standard IC2 play.

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by MagusUnion ().

  • no good this mod because when i use engine generator and biogass engine , I have 150 000 eu energy on 1 bucket biomass, your mod offer me only 8000 eu energy haha :D

  • no good this mod because when i use engine generator and biogass engine , I have 150 000 eu energy on 1 bucket biomass, your mod offer me only 8000 eu energy haha

    The POINT OF THAT ADDON is to create a balance. So don't say "I'll never use your mod because this mod is better than yours, and give me more stuff". If you realy want to, then NEI can give you even more stuff.


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

  • I don't like nerfed mods , I'm not masochist

    This not "nerfed". This is real balancing. On this thread, people are probably considering the mod you use are Overpowered. And if you don't want to use it because you like when the game is easy, then simply don't say anything here.


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

  • Props for doing this . I realized the 2/5 conversion rate was broken a while ago, still thinking of solutions that will not break my EU->MJ->EU 95% conversion efficiency

    Yeah it's a tough one when dealing with MJ directly, I've taken the sneaky path by working directly with the tiered fuel source ;) One thing I was thinking of for a MJ -> EU system was a system of diminishing returns on the EU produced from greater MJ/t inputs.


    I guess you would need to look at it as an overall measurement of all MJ into the TE else suddenly everyone will be running huge arrays of stirling engines into their transformer instead of a few combustion engines!


    MatLaPatate


    Pretty neat mate, I like the idea of getting (synthetic) rubber compounds from the refinery process. As for the conversion rate, I'm pretty happy with what is there, although I still need to give it a good playtest. Is your concern based on Lava being more readily available compared to fuel? At any rate I hope to soon make it configurable for people who would like to tweak the numbers.


    I've also never really played much with Gregtech so I'd have to look at that more, is Hydrogen a component for that mod? Also interested to know how you are keeping it in a bucket :P

  • Suggestion-Complaining: I think Oil and Refined Oil should worth more EU and give more EU/t. Why ? Because it's currently a bit UP compared to Lava ... I would suggest 30 000 EU/Oil Bucket and 200 000 EU / Refined Oil Bucket.

    Config for ratios/output would be nice.

    Fellow fossil fuel burning enthusiasts: As of latest version (0.7) options are now configurable, for those that want more (or less) bang for their liquidised ancient organic matter.



    MatLaPatate : Changing the oil_multiplier to 3 and the fuel_multiplier to 10 will give you the numbers you are after ;)

  • wow, and there I thought, how much lava they eat.O_o I was so wrong lol

  • To think of it, oil is rather rare (not counting deserts lol), you have to run QUITE some time to find it, than to transfer it to your base - it usually IS expensive (with tons of RC rails and such)
    each deposit is (by MY rough estimations) ~~~ 400-600 oil buckets



    even 600 buckets of fuel with rate of 300k per bucket is 180kk total..you know, 4-6 quad uraniums will give even more...
    I know, this is close to being energy-hungry ass, but why would I make this HUGE (and resource-eating) rail infrastructure, if it isnt even close as profitable or even spend any diamonds on world anchor to turn all that oil on the place into fuel and burn it there?
    I assume, that basing of 8-32-300k per biomass\biofuel\fuel, its STILL easier to make 2 cactus farms to get constant supply of biomass ._.
    We have configs now, thanks..but its not thet I want to set things and keep silent, I want to help you with criticism :whistling:

  • I've also never really played much with Gregtech so I'd have to look at that more, is Hydrogen a component for that mod? Also interested to know how you are keeping it in a bucket

    It's in a cell ^^.
    It can be obtain by:
    -Centrifuging Woodgas cells from Adv. Generator (quoted in first as it's my favorite way to get hydrogen [planning fuel for a future Fusion Reactor] and Methane [just for EU]).
    -Centrifuging (it was, maybe it's electrolyzing now, because I haven't played MC since November [end of my vacations ^^]) Bauxite Ore.
    -Electrolyzing Water cells.
    - I don't remember the rest.
    It has 2 main uses:
    -It's the only way to get Deuterium and Tritium, wich are efficient fuels for your Fusion Reactor.
    -It can be used as Fuel for generator (only 100 000 EU :/).


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

  • Nice little mod.


    I like transformers and respect the hard work put into it, but its just too OP for me. Ill stick with this and the forestry engines and generators.

  • Pretty sweet addon :)
    It would be nice if you add charge slot for IC2-ElectricItems.


    Hm, but i think that 100000 eU is a little expensive (even not little). Compare: 1 uranium cell will give you 10000000 EU. So, 10 fuel buckets = 1 Uranium Cell? You will get even more that 1000 buckets from one oil deposit.


    I have a transformers addon and Advanced Solar Panels, so it is not a problem to get much bc MJ.

  • It would be nice if you add charge slot for IC2-ElectricItems.

    Does Nuclear Reactor have one ? Guy, it's useful as your generators are used in early game ... but after that ... Batbox, MFE, MFSU ... Do you know about what I'm speaking ?

    Hm, but i think that 100000 eU is a little expensive (even not little). Compare: 1 uranium cell will give you 10000000 EU. So, 10 fuel buckets = 1 Uranium Cell? You will get even more that 1000 buckets from one oil deposit.

    1) Nuclear Reactor can output up to 4300 EU/t (or more, but you won't be able to cool them down ^^), and with efficient breeding + high efficienty, it's more like 40 000 EU/cells ... in a more common way it's easy to get 10 000 000 per Ura cells. And numbers are configurable. I will personnaly increase EU/t/ura to the old version (10 EU/t --> 2 000 000 with basical efficienty) and EU from Refined Oil (200 000 EU).
    2) It's once Refined. And Lava + Nether already provide you more than it. 50 Lave sources also worth 1 000 000 EU ... (Ok, it's cleary OP, and that's what I don't use any mod making you able to get Infinite energy from the nether without living in the Nether).

    I have a transformers addon and Advanced Solar Panels, so it is not a problem to get much bc MJ

    Transformers addons are OP. And you say that 100 000 EU is a bit too much ??? If I remember right, with a 100% conversion with the ratio 2MJ/5EU, it's more like ... 1 500 000 EU/Source ...
    And Advanced Solar Pannels ... how can you speak about an OP generator when you're using this ??? Even in "Hard" mode, it's OP in my mind. (but it's right if you used the config to decrease the 512 EU/t to 128EU/t, as an example ...)



    Edit: Couldn't you buff EU/t or make the Petroleum Generator cheaper ? Because a Combustion Engine already cost 11 Iron, add a Generator and a circuit, it's 20 ... that's quite expensive for something that output at max the same as Geogen (10 Iron, 20 EU/t). 35/40 EU/t would be nice.


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

    The post was edited 2 times, last by MatLaPatate ().

  • Another way to look at uranium's power output is to consider that the maximum efficiency of a reactor is 7, and that you can get 8 uranium cells out of a single ingot if you have a breeder available (and it's not unreasonable to have one, if you're serious about nuclear). Thus, the maximum theoretical amount of power a single uranium ore can give you is 56,000,000 EU. I think 100kEU is about right for fuel. You could configure it, of course, if you really wanted to.

  • Edit: Couldn't you buff EU/t or make the Petroleum Generator cheaper ? Because a Combustion Engine already cost 11 Iron, add a Generator and a circuit, it's 20 ... that's quite expensive for something that output at max the same as Geogen (10 Iron, 20 EU/t). 35/40 EU/t would be nice.

    The EU/t makes sense where it is, although I think the recipe might need to be made cheaper. The other issue is that the current recipe is a little complicated with each component being crafted components. My personal opinion is that the Geothermal generator is too cheap when paired with build craft lava farms and thermal expansion nether quarries (although balancing across mods is a totally futile effort!).


    I'm thinking of dropping the circuit, and perhaps the water cells too, making it just a combustion engine and a generator (proposal #1). This is still around the 20 iron mark, but considering that carrying around a single stack of fuel (if you have forestry capsules, I want to make IC2 cells fuel/oil compatible) will give you 6.4m EU, that's not too bad.


    Alternatively 1x combustion engine, 1x (or 2x) RE battery and 2x Water cell (proposal #2). This might actually be closer to the mark. I need to do a table of the raw materials and cross them with the raw materials of the geothermal and the BioGenerator, which are the PetroGen's closest relatives.

  • More on recipes:


    Looking at EMC values between all the generators out there, it seems pretty interesting:
    https://docs.google.com/spread…t0UVlzOXFHRVlnTTJMN1A1YlE



    I know using EMC values has its flaws, but it is the best valuation system I know of. My interpretation of my findings is that the value of the GeoGenerator is pretty low for how people use it. Conversely the BioGenerator value is through the roof at over 3.5 times more 'valuable'. Although this is due to a really high valuation of gold in EMC, which I'm not 100% convinced on.


    The Petroleum generator is current about half the cost of the BioGenerator currently. Proposal #1 shaves off about 12% of the current value, and Proposal #2 about a third. Proposal #2 makes it pretty close to the Geothermal in costing.


    I still like the look of Proposal #1 as it looks kind of 'IC2-y' and really gives a clear indication of what the machine does. Happy to hear any convincing arguments either way.