Posts by Shadowclaimer

Quote from FenixR

Thats why im saying, just having the tip covered in new metal should not make the drill store more energy, the recipe should include more components "Electric" wise to allow to do that. But let me clear my head a little and later today i will give you a more proper response/idea/suggestion for it.

Oh to clarify, my drills aren't just tipped, these you build entirely. 5 metal bar + circuit + battery. Similar to the base mining drill.

Although I may allow the players to diamond tip each one to increase their speed though.

Quote from FenixR

Design wise it looks good... Logic wise meh.

Materials you use to make the head should not determine how much energy these drills can hold, unless you also plan to mix some other materials to the recipe. You could even include more batteries in the recipe of each drill or a lapo/energy crystal for such things... Which brings the question, how will these drill will be made? From iron to the next tier till it reaches Diamond or something? I have to check your mod (Only reason i dont its because i find it annoying having so much minerals in my game), maybe i could even suggest you make new batteries/energy crystals with your new ores to make more sense for the drills to have more energy storage...

Diamond in my mod is brought down a lot from Vanilla, I may have to do the same to the Diamond drill in the compatibility patch.

I understand the logic issue, but at the same time if all the better metals let you do was mine new ores and mine slightly faster, would that be enough to make people want to do it?

Logic wise it doesn't make sense that the Diamond tipped Mining Drill somehow loses maximum energy compared to the normal either, but for gameplay purposes it makes sense.

If we were to start at Iron (skipping Copper, Tin, Bronze, Hepatizon) there'd be dozens of metals (depending on what metal packs you use) to build your drills out of. I'd just like them to be a "rechargeable pickaxe" effectively, I like the idea of heading into a mine, mining till its dead, heading out, recharging and dumping your gains, and starting again, and if you told me that if i worked my way up the metal tier list to obtain a top end metal with a nice prebuilt energy capacity, fast mine speed, and can mine about anything I'd jump on it for all those reasons.

Quote from Bluehorazon

Would be cool if they have something like enchantments inherit instead of just different energy-consumption. The Diamond-Drill is cheap and almost unbeatable in mining-speed yet it doesn't need much energy (well... the only improvement is the Mining-Laser^^).

So you could try to implement inherit Fortune or Silk-Touch enchantments (well... better not the later :P), or maybe other things are possible.

I agree if I could find some good ways to do it within reason, I'm kinda imagining some of these end drills (made of rare metals) having a huge power supply on their own to the point where you wouldn't necessarily need a lappack or batpack with you. You could just go mining with it for an extended period of time. The thing is such a huge supply still needs refilled of course so you'd have to return, but the point still stands. I'm also considering shifting mining speeds around a bit and doing something with the diamond drill (not sure what yet) my mod makes full use of Forge's mining level system to allow me to tier and bottleneck advancement, so I might do the same with drills having them get faster and more durable as you progress.

Quote from Alblaka

Yes, you should be able to use the IElectricItem interface for that. Just create it as a normal Item inheriting from ElectricItem or implementing mentioned interface. Both classes are present in the API.

Thank you sir *bows*

Here's an example of some of them, I'm still toying with a few different textures (note they look a little outlandish due to the fact they're the Nether Metal set so they're very.. "fantasy' style, still a WIP)

Quote from FenixR

Why would you want to change the durability of the drill? Mostly because using a lappack (Or having several) in your inventory gives you a crapton of energy to waste before using the internal energy of the drill.

At best what kind of materials the drill can mine and at what speed its the only thing that would probably be customizable.

My mod adds a huge variety of metals, instead of alternate tips I was planning on implementing a variety of drills that are constructed similar to the base mining drill and each can handle more stress on them before they need recharged. They also have a variety of speeds.

Regardless I just wanna know if its possible using the API.

Using the API is it possible to declare new drills that have higher durability (aka power storage)?

I'm working on my IC2 addon between my mod and it, and I'm considering adding in Drills for a variety of my metals if its not too difficult to tweak the durabilities of them, and if the API supports such additions.

Where my new base stands there once was a mountain.

Quote from Bluehorazon

The problem is not only forge, it is vMC too. Even updates which doesn't change much might do something that's rather unnoticed but screws many things. And Lex is working on a system to make quality-control a lot easier.

Ah my post must've not gone through.

Was going to say, I know Lex is working on a new MLMP that is built into Forge (the less to rely on the better) and the new packet 230 and MLMP seem to be having fun. I'm sure its just transitional stuff with vMC conflicting with MLMP.

Yea the Forge/MLMP thing is really getting on a lot of modder's nerves, its a mix of bad luck and bad code. I know personally that my thread has been and continues to be flooded with people who yell about the Forge Bug (even though the latest two versions have fixed it) and blaming my mod. Then there's an issue I'm running into in 1.1+ for example with MLMP and GenerateSurface not properly running part of my code always or spawning my ore in patterns instead of randomly, it all worked without a flaw in 1.0, but something changed in 1.1 that for some reason now is making any of my GenerateSurface code act up. Good news is last I heard Forge was building its own MLMP inside of itself, which will be so nice and should hopefully void some issues.

I do agree, doing a proper internet test series with a full array of Forge users would probably go miles towards maintaining compatibility and reducing the frequency of post-launch patches. I don't know about necessarily "nightly" builds, but a mass pre-launch test would be nice for bugs that internal testing might have issues finding (such as SMP errors).

Support.

Quote from Frantic Fanatic

My apologies if you took any personal insults from my statements. I have no intention of calling you, or anyone else 'unknowledgeable'. It's just that that single term reminded me of how ingrained perceptions are in the Minecraft community, and I lack sufficient tact or argumentative finesse to sway anyone to my point of view, especially when those with more forceful abilities has already given up half a page back.

Truthfully I lost my reason for arguing awhile back and it turned into me just rambling on like an old man, I'm easy to get riled up when I'm talking about something I think people highly misunderstand (IE: the internet vs anything) and especially pertaining to the rather.. lacking Minecraft community. Truthfully in my arguments I should've conceded more that I do understand where you guys were coming from, and I understand the rights and such, its just I think this was a very brash way to handle things on Elo's part. My argument devolved from there into a drooling mess of anti-Elo sentiment. For that I apologize.

Also damn "unknowledgeable" for not being a legit word.

Quote from Frantic Fanatic

Technic-'esque'. Implying that these mods are derived from Technic, where, at the very least, it is the other way around.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing copyright with someone who uses that term. Sorry.

You win. I agree with your viewpoint. I'm going home.

-esque implies in the manner of, not derived of. The Technic pack had an overarching theme, regardless of whether you agree with the pack doesn't mean the term doesn't fit. Any mod with machines, transportation systems, a power system, and that uses Forge fits under the technic-esque label. Implying I'm unknowledgeable solely on my usage of one vocabulary term is just.. ludicrous. A slang one at that even.

*shrugs*

Quote from HeadHunter67

Then you're just engaging in academic masturbation.

Don't take this personally, but Eloraam has done more for me and my enjoyment of the game than you have. She's been helpful when I have had issues, attentive when I have had concerns, and she delivers a mod that I find useful and downright essential to the way I play. So it's not a waste for me to support her in her decisions. I'm smart enough to realize that alienation can mean the death of the mod.

If you're concerned about "wasted breath", I'd recommend you conserve your own. I've made it clear that I have my reasons for my position, and they're perfectly valid. Saul's never been able to convince me of anything and nothing you've added has moved my position one bit. If what you've both been trying to do all along is convince us, then I must sadly confess that you've failed in that attempt.

At this point, probably best to take the soapbox and go home. I'm sure Saul will find another "lost cause" you can help to champion soon enough.

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Well actually I like your final section a lot, and for that (even though you won't care) that's gained a ton of respect from me. At least you've shelled out why you like Elo. I can't say I've run into the same support, but to each their own. I understand why you fight for her and I apologize if I've insulted you in such a way now at the very least.

I'm not a fan of being labeled exactly as a soapbox champion however, I don't know/care about Saul (I fought against him in plenty of his other points). I'm just someone who believes the Minecraft community needs to stop trying to pigeonhole itself into specific domains BTW style. Forge was meant to encourage people to interbreed mods and create addons, not to split us apart, and its odd seeing one of Forge's chief founders being so against it.

Quote from Frantic Fanatic

*pinkiepieshrug.gif*

I fold. You guys have fun.

Or you can be mature about this and not go off on one word as if its the end of the world?

Like it or not sadly its the term used to describe mods of a machine nature now in the general community, whether or not they came far before the first technic pack (or have ever been in the Technic pack). I've heard it plenty of times and it kinda fits (in regards to the mechanized nature not the mod pack itself). Whether you agree with the modpack or not, the labeling is accurate. Its a genre of mods of technical and mechanical nature that have interwoven machines, power systems, and transportation systems.

*shrugs*

Quote from HeadHunter67

I agree completely.

To those who think Eloraam is in the worng, I'll close with this: Good luck trying to get her to change. Don't talk to us about it, talk to her.
Nothing you say to US is going to ever convince HER to change her ways to suit YOU.

Is that clear enough, everyone?

Wasn't our goal to change her, she isn't going to change. Its my hope that you, her diehard fans, would realize she doesn't give a damn about you so you can waste your breath towards defending something that actually deserves it. There are better authors, better mods, and much nicer people who are willing to work with you, work with their fans, and improve the community who need diehard fans like yourselves, and they'd appreciate you. The same people who ousted FlowerChild when he did these same actions (pre-Forge pull) are the same people supporting Eloraam in her actions. That's what I dislike.

Quote from Alblaka

Ah ye, good ol times...

Still remember the convo ending with "No, stop bugging me, cables transmitting energy are totally not possible! Use the batterys."

Congratulations on making my signature.

Actually has anyone decompiled that addon to see how much RP2 code it used? Or if it was simply "its related to RP2 so take it down".

Quote from FenixR

How about you wait after Redpower2 gets its Beta tag out before expecting a Api out of it?

And i like how people ignore the fact that it is HER creation, she may do whatever she wants with it because she owns redpower and if she doesnt want any submod of her mod then she has the right to refuse it,

And just for your info, Eloraam doenst "Refuse" every single submod but she do ask people to talk with her before making any of these before hand to avoid situations like this one, in the end its better to ask her first and be taken down right there before you lost your time coding something, that do it first the lose the time because you could not even send her a PM about it.

And i dont know what else to say, i would love for this to died out, because like i have been saying since several post backs, "This is going in circles".

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First off, Beta is irrelevant, she can call it beta forever it doesn't change the point. She has never shown any interest in creating anything for an API, as you guys quoted yourselves earlier, she posts her future plans on her blog, I haven't seen any post about addons or discussion of an API or anything with the fans and compatibility seekers.

Second off, you completely disregarded that I said its her right to do whatever, but it doesn't make it morally right.

I'm just baffled you guys would so easily support/defend someone who stifles freedom of expression and fostering of compatibility. Someone who has said she makes her mod for her and not for her fans. I'm a fan of Redpower, not of Eloraam, and I won't sit here and pretend I'm not arguing against her, I am, I'm just trying to make you guys realize that Elo is just another FlowerChild who doesn't care about her fans in any personal regard, just as download counts and ad revenue.

Quote from HeadHunter67

Sorry to inform you that no such "right" exists. It depends entirely upon the permission of the author whose work you intend to modify. Mojang permits it; Eloraam does not. Both are within their rights to do so.
In cases of use of others' intellectual property, the only "rights" you have is what they grant.

Really? Try posting an unauthorized RedPower mod on the MCF and watch how quickly they lock it, delete the link, and BAN you.

Very well, I must then revise my statement. In light of the fact that you ARE a mod developer, there now remains no possible way that you can justify the misappropriation of others' work.
Or is it merely that you expect others should be bound by the lax wording that permits unauthorized use of your mod?

When it comes to defending one's license to their IP, it most certainly is. Awareness of a violation and failure to defend against it sets the precedent for permitted use. That is why companies must aggressively defend their copyrights, otherwise they lose them.

How can you be a mod developer and not even understand what you're talking about? RedPower doesn't contain any of that - it requires it to run. Forge mods don't modify base Minecraft classes, and all of the mods you mentioned must be installed separately to function.

Stop being a dick to the person who put so much time and effort into making the mod he then modded. Without her, without RedPower, his add-on is irrelevant and useless. So he owes it to her to respect her wishes.

Perhaps if you drew the line at defending an individual author's right to determine the permitted use of their own intellectual proprty, we wouldn't have to defend it so far behind the front.

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I'll give you the fact that it doesn't include ModloaderMP/Modloader/Forge technically so that point is thrown out, I didn't bother to really think about that one.

I'm not being a dick to Eloraam by saying that because she deems it unallowed for someone to make a mod for her mod that its outside her domain. I respect the rights of the ability of people to make content and enhance modification of Minecraft, whether or not she existed is irrelevant to this, this guy had just as much of a right to make a mod for her creation as she did, trying to slam the door on it by saying "well if she wanted to.." is completely worthless in this discussion. He, as a person with access to the internet, has the right to create the addon as much as she does to make the mod, shut the mod down, whatever. That's plain fact. She had the right to pursue him over the addon but whether she had the right to shut it down is wherein the issue lies. I'm not debating whether she can pursue those who break her "copyright" (although I still think those copyrights are far from legally binding), I'm debating whether or not she legally has the power to back up her ability to shut it down and whether you guys should be criminalizing this guy for creating this. I guarantee that if you posted a Redpower Addon anywhere on the internet it wouldn't get shutdown besides a few choice sites (I can't say for MCF, it is possible the moderation staff would shut it down solely because it has Redpower in its name and because they like squashing drama ahead of time)

I defend the right for a user to create an addon for a mod as much as I defend the right of the modder to make the mod originally. I think going on a witch hunt because some guy created an addon of what you intended to do is overkill, regardless of bureaucratic tidbits. She had the right to pursue him, but on the moral ground I see it as wrong that she did such when he did nothing but foster companionship with her mod and other modifications. He put his time into something, he gained nothing from it, and Elo is the only one who could've gained from it with no foreseeable loss from it.

(This is where I become a dick to Eloraam)

=

As a note, jumping into "what ifs" and rolling your eyes at me isn't how a debate is carried out my friend, I'd prefer you not do that in the future. (no insult meant here, just quite serious, its just kinda trollish/jerkish to do that)

And my copyright was removed last week because I was tired of these petty squabbles. Everyone makes assumptions about the copyright rules because of the fact the MCF tried to make them out to be something they weren't.

Quote from FenixR

There is a fundamental difference in this, Notch is aware of mods but he has allowed them to exist, Eloraam wasnt even aware of the fact someone made that conversion. so she took down that addon. Is it so hard to understand that this is simply a case of disrespect to eloraam work? He did what he did without even discussing/talking with Eloraam about it, when she has expressed quite a lot to not do such things. That the copyright are trash and useless? Maybe, but that still doesnt give you the right to disrespect the developer, which will only making him/her to have a sour mood and consider either stop to developing his/her mod, or simply stop sharing his work with the public.

The thing is it wasn't a disrespect, he didn't post her source code for everyone to use, he posted a simple addon that barely used ANY of her code because it HAD to. Thousands of people have created sub addons for the Technic-esque mods without issues, and there are other RP2 addons floating around. The only reason she removed it was because she had plans to do something of the sort for herself later, NOT because it used her code. I'm not disrespecting anyone here, I'm just saying its a tad overzealous to go squashing addons because of something so childish and simple.

Quote

Aside from the fact that they actually are, I find it amazingly hypocritical that you complain about how Eloraam "squashes" someone else, and then proceed to try and justify trampling all over her rights in such a childish fashion.

I'm justifying the right of someone to make a mod for a mod. That's it, I don't justify people stealing other's work, I'm saying there's no technical protection for this. Elo's only "right" to have it taken down was because her friend, Al, runs this site, if she tried to use that same protection on MCF or anywhere else on the internet it'd be legally unjustifiable. What this guy did wasn't stealing, it wasn't reposting, it wasn't anything like that, he simply made a mod for a mod. One that helps a LOT of people who use both these mods, and it didn't harm Eloraam in any possible way, it didn't insult her, it didn't break her code, it didn't cause issues with it. NOTHING, it was a simple little tweak that allowed intercommunication between two mods that are paired together frequently.

Quote

You don't even make mods, do you? You have no idea what's needed to make a mod, but you think if you word it that way, it'll support your ridiculous postition. And if you did make a mod and someone misused it or stole itl, you'd be the first one in here crying about it.
As I stated before, Eloraam's mod does not violate Mojang's license. If it did, they would have shut her down and locked the thread sometime before page 885, don't you think?
If, as you allege, they are aware but "turning a blind eye", then guess what? That means they are permitting its use. But how you make the leap from that, to saying that this remove's Eloraam's rights to protect her work... I can't even begin to see where your brain makes that connection.

Making assinine assumptions about my capabilities as a modmaker and whether I understand copyright law or stealing is completely absurd. Google "Metallurgy Minecraft", see how many damn times my mod has been stolen or reposted under other adflies, see how many people have taken MY creation and reposted it elsewhere. There are 4-5 pages of google results of my mod being posted elsewhere, half of which don't give credit. Hell the largest source of downloads for my mod (30k+ of them) is minecraftdl and NOT my main thread. So before you go jumping the gun and calling someone else out as inexperienced or out of their league go do your research.

There's a big difference between permission and ignoring. Turning a blind eye is not permission. I'm saying technically she doesn't have their express right to be generating ad revenue off reposting parts of their source code, none of us modders do. Mojang has never created a terms of modding use for any of us, if they wanted to they could snap their fingers and take down every mod simultaneously. Legal bullshit has nothing to do with anything here in the Minecraft modding world. Petty imaginary copyrights on forum posts were invented by the forum moderators to keep kids from thinking they can steal eachother's content and giving the moderation staff a simple way to enforce (which they don't enforce anything else anyway). In order to claim copyright you have to have the express permission from the owner that you can use any submaterials located inside, the blind eye excuse won't hold up in copyright cases. She can't call copyright on Redpower if it includes Modloader or ModloaderMP or Forge or any API because they all contain Minecraft's base materials, of which none of them have express permission from Minecraft to include their source code. Legality withstanding, copyright law is non-existent here because all of us are technically in legal grey. (As a note, express permission isn't simply a "tweet from Notch")

What I was trying to say is that A) the mod the guy posted broke zero rules and zero laws, he could post it anywhere if he wanted, the only reason it was taken down was because of conflicts with Elo's future plans and it was posted on this site, and B) you guys need to stop criminalizing this poor guy for making a mod for a mod, he just did something to help his two favorite mods be compatible, he didn't post it under an adfly, he wasn't out to make money. He simply made something to help him and other people out.

So stop being dicks to the poor kid who modded a mod and stop bringing legal mumbo-jumbo as a case against him, this is completely outside of lega boundaries. In the end, it was a kid making a mod and the mod's owner got it shut down on a site where she had power (IE: Here because she's friends with Al). That's it, period. If this was anywhere else we wouldn't even have this discussion. You guys are blowing this WAY out of proportion, and making this kid out to be something he's not, and that's where I draw the line.

TL;DR
-He wasn't a criminal, nothing he did was illegal by any standard
-None of us technically can hold copyright without express permission (Aka not a tweet) (Edit: As a note, the guy above me does bring the good point with "enforce it or lose it" being the general attitude, I don't know if that is expressly how its committed however, and you have to take into account we're in international territory here because of all the file hosts and living locations of people involved, and the fact Mojang is a Swedish company)
-Stop treating and talking about the guy like he was a monster
-Eloraam did not have the power to take it down for any reason other than this was Alblanka's website and he chose to take it down

There, that summarizes what I'm trying to say. I don't want to keep arguing with you guys since you seem to enjoy throwing out insults and making assumptions left and right about stupid stuff. There's no point for this thread to even remain open. We aren't going to change Al's mind about leaving it up because he's being nice to Elo by taking it down, and this argument only continues to spiral into insults and baseless accusations.

Quote from pureaura

At the end of the day, making an addon to a mod is still an infringement of said mod creators rights unless they have been given explicit permission to do so. No matter what you or anyone else say is going to ever change that fact unless the intellectual property rights change.

What rights? You guys are aware those little "copyrights" people paste at the bottom of their posts aren't legally binding correct? Technically someone could up and rip IC2 and repost it somewhere else under a slightly different name and Al couldn't do anything about it except kindly request it be taken down. We don't own squat about our mods, artwork gets stolen daily, code gets stolen constantly, there is no protection for modders.

Basically all this guy did was make a mod for a mod, its no different than us including modified Notch classes in our mod. He included modified RP classes in his mod. We don't have Notch's express permission to release his code yet we do anyway everyday? Its hypocritical to think that this guy did anything different than Elo has done a thousand times.

I'm just afraid this is sounding like FlowerChild all over again.