[GregTech-5][1.7.10-FORGE-1355+][Unofficial but approved Port][Stable] Even GT5 Experimental is slowly getting stable.

    Quote from willis936

    ...(TL;BIR)


    Wow... My head is spinning...
    So, the conclusion is that those pipes aren't reliable? Well, for now I think I'll stop using them.

    I was looking at you screenshots, does the fluid regulator accepts any voltage? Those are really big wires;

    Can anyone tell me a good Fluid Pipe Mod?
    I found and EnderIO (weak, kinda cheap but configurable), Mekanism (Cheap and OP), BC (extremely weak);
    Maybe I'll go with Mekanism, because It don't requires any machines, and I don't want to start in another mod tech tree now...

    That's cool, thanks.
    I TRIED to look at the code, but couldn't find anything about the pipe export half of its content. But to be fair, I the code is waaaaay more complex than I thought...
    Need... put brain... refrigerator...

    Edited once, last by Drawfox (September 18, 2015 at 3:17 PM).

    Quote from Drawfox


    Wow... My head is spinning...
    So, the conclusion is that those pipes aren't reliable? Well, for now I think I'll stop using them.

    I was looking at you screenshots, does the fluid regulator accepts any voltage? Those are really big wires;

    Can anyone tell me a good Fluid Pipe Mod?
    I found and EnderIO (weak, kinda cheap but configurable), Mekanism (Cheap and OP), BC (extremely weak);
    Maybe I'll go with Mekanism, because It don't requires any machines, and I don't want to start in another mod tech tree now...


    My partner did his own throughput tests with a better test methodology than me (used AHK) and found that the pipes do transmit their rated amount in the case of the internal tanks being full and the supply being fully fed.

    My final conclusion is that while the GT pipes don't lose any liquid when they shouldn't they also don't update in a way that's good enough to be used for feeding turbines. That is to say: use fluid regulators and if you have to go over 20 B/s use a second input hatch. Fluid regulators should always be adjacent to the turbine input hatches. If you're using GT pipes along the way it's probably a good idea to have some sort of buffer tank (a decent sized input hatch + fast export pump should be enough). I haven't (and probably won't) test if this is good enough or if you have to also overproduce for a short period so you don't operate too close to an empty buffer. These are the kinds of solutions that are called "hackish" and if you're messing with a turbine you really should put it right next to your steam/plasma source and use only fluid regulators (or enderIO or mekanism and put them wherever if you hate fun).


    Also sorry about the structure of that post. It's quite scattered and hard to interpret. It's lab notebook style.

    Edited 2 times, last by willis936 (September 18, 2015 at 3:38 PM).

    Hey Pyure: here's a little food for thought on the LHE SHS output

    If the SHS output from the LHE is reduced to half then in the case of using a two pairs of normal tungstensteel turbines (1.15 efficiency) you would get 8.625 EU per hot coolant. IC2 stirling engines give 10 EU per hot coolant. You would need to use large tungstensteel turbines (1.4 efficiency) to get better efficiency than the stirling engines (11 EU per hot coolant). This just seems wrong to me.

    You'd also end up losing half of the distilled water fed to the LHE unless the normal steam turbine output twice as much distilled water (bad) or the HP turbine had two outputs (one for steam and one for distilled water). I think things are working pretty well right now considering you need a lot more fuel and a lot more material to make SHS work. It gives decent incentive to make cool, big setups without being overpowered. Right now I'm aiming to have 7 ic2 fluid reactors producing 900 Hu/s each (8 iridium neutron reflectors and 4 quad thorium cells in each) to make 6.3 B/s of hot coolant. Using large tungstensteel turbines and only producing/consuming 60 B/s of SHS this will produce 6.3 kEU/t. That's a LOT of power but the scale of this setup is immense. Hundreds of iridium, thousands of other metals, ages of AE2 crafts, hours spent designing and handling the logistics. It doesn't exceed fusion but it fills a nice hole.


    One thing that just occurred to me for adding an output to the HP turbine for distilled water: how would the multimachine know which output hatch was for which fluid? You'd need to add support for placing hatches on the top/bottom for this specifically. Idk it doesn't seem to fit.

    Edited 3 times, last by willis936 (September 18, 2015 at 8:17 PM).

    Quote from willis936

    Also sorry about the structure of that post. It's quite scattered and hard to interpret. It's lab notebook style.


    No problem, you are being really helpful, thank you very much. (it was a "Too Long, But I read" BTW).
    I hadn't time this week, if so would do some tests as well.
    But I think I'll start to use regulators as you say, it's easier and simpler.
    I do really like everything about GT Pipes, their recipe makes sense, they have a good capacity per tier, a nice design, the covers possibilities, etc... Their only problem is that backflow thing, and that output information, that I still don't am sure if is half or full.

    Good thing a Large Tungstensteel boiler output matches a Huge tungstensteel Turbine optimal flow.
    As soon I make one, I 'll put them together, and problem is over. :D

    Quote from willis936

    Hey Pyure: here's a little food for thought on the LHE SHS output

    If the SHS output from the LHE is reduced to half then in the case of using a two pairs of normal tungstensteel turbines (1.15 efficiency) you would get 8.625 EU per hot coolant. IC2 stirling engines give 10 EU per hot coolant. You would need to use large tungstensteel turbines (1.4 efficiency) to get better efficiency than the stirling engines (11 EU per hot coolant). This just seems wrong to me.

    You'd also end up losing half of the distilled water fed to the LHE unless the normal steam turbine output twice as much distilled water (bad) or the HP turbine had two outputs (one for steam and one for distilled water). I think things are working pretty well right now considering you need a lot more fuel and a lot more material to make SHS work. It gives decent incentive to make cool, big setups without being overpowered. Right now I'm aiming to have 7 ic2 fluid reactors producing 900 Hu/s each (8 iridium neutron reflectors and 4 quad thorium cells in each) to make 6.3 B/s of hot coolant. Using large tungstensteel turbines and only producing/consuming 60 B/s of SHS this will produce 6.3 kEU/t. That's a LOT of power but the scale of this setup is immense. Hundreds of iridium, thousands of other metals, ages of AE2 crafts, hours spent designing and handling the logistics. It doesn't exceed fusion but it fills a nice hole.


    One thing that just occurred to me for adding an output to the HP turbine for distilled water: how would the multimachine know which output hatch was for which fluid? You'd need to add support for placing hatches on the top/bottom for this specifically. Idk it doesn't seem to fit.

    When you say "SHS output from LHE reduced to half" are you talking about the way it outputs 50% SHS as opposed to 100% Steam, or are you talking about reducing the threshold with Integrated Circuits from 2000 to ~1000?

    Can you please confirm for me that you're using the SHS properly? The loop for distilled water is:

    Code
    LHE ----(SHS)---> HP Turbine ---(Steam)---->Turbine ---(Water) ---> LHE

    Given that's the case, can you break down in detail how stirling engines are better than non-tunsgensteel turbines?

    "how would the multimachine know which output hatch was for which fluid?"
    None of the multiblock turbines output more than one type of fluid. If you're feeding SHS into a HP Turbine, it outputs Steam, which you then dump into a second (non HP) turbine, which outputs distilled water. This amount of distilled water is equal to the amount of distilled water that created the SHS in the first place. I've tested this.

    Well, seems that pipes really transfer they full capacity, as described on the tooltip.

    I made a test with two Huge Bronze Pipes (9600mb/sec, with shutters) attached to a Quantum tank, and a fluid regulator set a 480mb/T (9600mb/sec) attached to another Quantum Tank.
    Both tanks had shutters and machine controllers, set to be open by the same lever.

    On the first test, I activated the lever, and after a few seconds, deactivated.
    Result: both tanks had the exactly same amount.

    On a second test, I let it running for 60 seconds.
    Result: the piped tank had 576,000L, which is exactly the listed pipe capacity: 9600L/sec.
    The regulated tank had 578,400L, equal to 482mb/t ( or 480mb/t for 1205 ticks, which means that I took 60,25 seconds to close the valve).

    This means that, while their medium output is about the same, there's a little difference on the frequency that they output.
    I don't know if it's enough to affect the turbine functioning, but if I have time tomorrow, I might set two turbines to measure their total output (I probably will).

    Quote from Pyure

    When you say "SHS output from LHE reduced to half" are you talking about the way it outputs 50% SHS as opposed to 100% Steam, or are you talking about reducing the threshold with Integrated Circuits from 2000 to ~1000?


    I'm saying that if you put 999 mB/s of lava into an LHE with no IC it will output 79,920 steam/s.
    If you put 1001 mB/s of lava into an LHE with no IC it will output 80,080 SHS/s.
    As I understood the wiki it should output 40,040 SHS/s in that second case

    Quote from Pyure

    Can you please confirm for me that you're using the SHS properly? The loop for distilled water is:

    Code
    LHE ----(SHS)---> HP Turbine ---(Steam)---->Turbine ---(Water) ---> LHE


    That is indeed the case.

    Quote from Pyure

    Given that's the case, can you break down in detail how stirling engines are better than non-tunsgensteel turbines?


    Liquid heat exchanger with 10 heat conductors takes in 100 hot coolant/s and outputs 100 Hu/something. The stirling engine takes in 100 Hu/something and outputs 50 EU/t (1000 EU/s).
    That is 1000 EU for 100 hot coolant or 10 EU per hot coolant.

    Let's say an LHE is fed 4000 hot coolant/second to produce 20000 SHS/s (half of what it produces now, what the wiki suggests is correct behavior). HP+normal Turbine with tungstensteel rotors will produce 20000 EU/s * 1.5 (for regular steam turbine) * 1.15 (efficiency) is 1725 EU/t (34500 EU/s).
    That is 34500 EU for 4000 hot coolant or 8.625 EU per hot coolant.
    As it is right now it outputs 17.25 EU per hot coolant.

    Quote from Pyure

    "how would the multimachine know which output hatch was for which fluid?"
    None of the multiblock turbines output more than one type of fluid. If you're feeding SHS into a HP Turbine, it outputs Steam, which you then dump into a second (non HP) turbine, which outputs distilled water. This amount of distilled water is equal to the amount of distilled water that created the SHS in the first place. I've tested this.


    I know. I was suggesting ways to fix the issue of losing half of the water if the LHE was "fixed" to output half as much when in SHS mode. Another, more clean solution would be to just make the distilled water requirements half when in SHS mode.

    Quote from willis936

    That's what I did and I found that it was actually enough for a 10% hit in EU output. That's pretty significant.

    What I noticed, is that, the tank with the regulator is updated more frequently than the tank with the pipes.
    I had the impression that Greg pipes output about 2 times per second, while the regulated tank keep the marker running.

    An easy (maybe) way to fix it (I think), and make regulators less relevant, would be to make the turbines check and consume fuel each second, instead each tick.
    So, a tungstensteel turbine will check the hatches each second for 20000L of steam and consume it, instead 1000L each tick.
    That would make it way more intuitive.

    Is there a way to make fuel ethanol in GT5u? Seems the fermenter and some water and sugar would be able to make this most important fuel.

    Quote

    Quoted from "zorn":
    People can't handle losing. Lots of new games are like this. My son's Lego games? You die and respawn on the spot, just lose a bit of money. It's made so that anyone can win, even the worst players. Like TE, or EU. They say that IC2 is 'keeping them from moving on' but can never say what that is. In reality they just failed, blew up a bunch of stuff, and their fragile egos couldn't take it so they gravitate towards mods designed to guarantee that you succeed.

    I investigated a little further and found something else: the distiller/distillation tower recipes I found for bio-ethanol require the fluid registered as just "biomass", which probably mainly comes from Forestry machines (my current instance doesn't have Forestry installed). The IC2 canning machine recipe with water and bio chaff would produce the fluid registered as "ic2biomass" (which outputs biogas and a couple other things when put into a distillation tower, rather than bio-ethanol).

    What version of Forge is recommended for the 5.09 branch? I have tried using local LAN for Forge 1428, but it crashes with the same error that 1447 does: molten metal liquids already registered, or something. I don't have the crash logs on this computer, but I assume the crash is known about given the big red text on the main post.

    So my question is, does any version of Forge work for LAN multiplayer?