I think he means reversing the damage that's done. I agree it should be reversible so you don't artificially throttle your race to the finish to avoid living in a permanent hellscape.
[GregTech-5][1.7.10-FORGE-1355+][Unofficial but approved Port][Stable] Even GT5 Experimental is slowly getting stable.
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It is a galacticraft issue.
Thank you, but now i have a risk to take "dead" world if anyone try to fill certus tank with these untextured gases(( How can i prevent my players from this?
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BloodAsp please fix nugget insertion to packager via chest buffer asap. Its really annoying to craft them into ingots by hands.
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How about a lategame (fusion age) machine to clean additional pollution from the air? In fusion age it wouldnt change the balance...
You shouldn't be producing pollution if your source of energy is fusion...
Now instead of ways to clean it, we should have upgrades that when installed on any polluting machine, reduces the pollution output. Those would be costly.
I think he means reversing the damage that's done. I agree it should be reversible so you don't artificially throttle your race to the finish to avoid living in a permanent hellscape.
Notions of pollution scrubbers had already been raised and discarded, honestly. There was no room in the balance flow to allow someone to create pollution in one way and simply offset it in the other.
That said, there's two good points here.
1) Like SpwnX says, by the fusion age you shouldn't be producing pollution anyway.
2) LIke willis said, what about just cleaning what's there. I can't really predict this well, but I don't *think* it would be an issue. Nobody's going to let pollution get that far outta control because your industry would grind to a halt. So it should completely clean itself out in a few ticks anyway. That said, what if someone's pollution really is totally outta whack? Maybe a pollution scrubber would be a good late-game tool in that event. -
Do you already have a list of the machines that will produce pollution?
I understand that boilers and furnaces (coal only?) will.
Gas and Oil generators will do as well, I assume?I am curious if the only source will be burners.
If items couldn't be so easily discarded, Radioactive and heavy chemicals waste management could be kinda of interesting... -
Do you already have a list of the machines that will produce pollution?
I understand that boilers and furnaces (coal only?) will.
Gas and Oil generators will do as well, I assume?I am curious if the only source will be burners.
If items couldn't be so easily discarded, Radioactive and heavy chemicals waste management could be kinda of interesting...Could work like the nuclear waste of reactor craft, the waste doesn´t despawn, gives you radioactivity effect and you have to store it in a special drum, until it decays. Would make nuclear power less OP.
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We'd need a special nuclear waste handler. Else people will cheat and destroy whatever fluid/item produced.
One idea is to make Tcentrifuging depleted fuel rods produce nuclear waste fluid that must be stored on a special tank. If that waste fluid is within a non reinforced tank, it will leak, > permanently < turning blocks around it into radioactive blocks that can not be destroyed, those only decay over a long, long time.
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Yeah, today would be too easy.
Liquids can be voided removing the container, and solids can be just dropped on the world (on lava preferably , because is fun). -
Do you already have a list of the machines that will produce pollution?
I understand that boilers and furnaces (coal only?) will.
Gas and Oil generators will do as well, I assume?
Basically anything that hinders technical progression, to vastly varying degrees.The worst offenders would be bronze coal and lava boilers. Steel boilers (are those a thing?) wouldn't pollute as much. Large boilers would pollute even less.
LV machines in general would produce a tiny bit of pollution. Not much. MV wouldn't produce as much. HV+ might not produce any at all unless it particularly makes sense.
diesel/gas generators would produce some pollution, again with higher tiers being more efficient for pollution reduction. Again, not a whole lot. I don't want to discourage the use of these when its appropriate to use them, but I do eventually want to encourage peeps to progress towards fission if/when they decide to generate lots of power.
I'm not convinced I can make fission produce pollution since its an IC2 thing rather than a GT thing. Its possible I can make reprocessing fuel rods generate some pollution, but to be clear this would just be the same pollution as everything else, not some new (un-streamlined) mechanic.
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Ok, confirmed high pressure coal boiler is a thing. Dunno about ya'all but I've never built a high-pressure-steam-anything (although I know people who build the hp lava boiler)
Needs to be said: whatever numbers I use for machines generating pollution will be CONFIGURABLE. Don't panic because you think I'm nerfing anything.
Also needs to be said, the DEFAULT values are not going to hinder anyone who already plays "fair". This means most people won't be affected by pollution at all unless they're in the habit of powering an entire city with lava. Then, yes, you'll be screwed (by default).
However if you're the type of player who likes to upgrade power generation technology, then pollution will be a non-issue for you. It won't factor much into your game at all. -
I have some thoughts about pollution:
1. I agree that higher-tier machines should produce less pollution, but it might make sense for them to be more susceptible to it, since they operate faster and presumably have more intricate moving parts.
2. Would confinement of the machines affect the pollution, encouraging base designs that are more open to allow the pollution to dissipate?
3. I'm concerned that instead of encouraging people to progress toward fission/fusion, the pollution mechanic might encourage using power generation from other mods instead (e.g. IC2 semifluid generators, Railcraft steam turbines), since as you mentioned it might not be possible to make non-GT generators cause pollution.
4. I presume the pollution caused by multiblocks would be controlled by the tier of the muffler hatch. -
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Ventilation would be nice to be required, besides the chunk pollution, burning stuff would produce smog air blocks that floats upwards and can accumulate (like Thaumcraft gaseous taint), if you're in it, you suffocate.
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So, all machines will produce pollution, even being electric?
That's doesn't make sense to me...
I think that the generators could be heavy polluters, but machines should be clean. That would encourage
generation and consumption on different places, and the use of power lines.One thing I was thinking, is how would be to make my generators on the nether: LHE arrays, turbines etc...
They would charge crystals, that would be sent by Thaumcraft mirrors to my house on overworld, and inputed on a big battery buffer.
Empty crystals would be outputted back to nether to recharge, using golems, of course, because they are cool.
Not so practical, but seems very fun in theory. -
I have some thoughts about pollution:
1. I agree that higher-tier machines should produce less pollution, but it might make sense for them to be more susceptible to it, since they operate faster and presumably have more intricate moving parts.
Runs a bit tangent to the design: I want to promote upgrading. I'm not sure I see a benefit.I have some thoughts about pollution:
2. Would confinement of the machines affect the pollution, encouraging base designs that are more open to allow the pollution to dissipate?
Runs against the design. I don't want to implement any measure that allows you to mitigate pollution other than fixing the underlying problem. Also: I probably couldn't code that easily.I have some thoughts about pollution:
3. I'm concerned that instead of encouraging people to progress toward fission/fusion, the pollution mechanic might encourage using power generation from other mods instead (e.g. IC2 semifluid generators, Railcraft steam turbines), since as you mentioned it might not be possible to make non-GT generators cause pollution.
100% agree. I'm hoping I can easily make other mods generate pollution even if I can't make them penalized from it. This is in fact why I make the pollution affect GT machines negatively. No matter where you get your power from, you still need to use those GT machines.I have some thoughts about pollution:
4. I presume the pollution caused by multiblocks would be controlled by the tier of the muffler hatch.
I didn't even think of this and its a fantastic idea. -
So, all machines will produce pollution, even being electric?
That's doesn't make sense to me...
I think that the generators could be heavy polluters, but machines should be clean. That would encourage
generation and consumption on different places, and the use of power lines.
Yes, yes, Realism.
I've talked about realism before! Realism always takes a second seat to gameplay design and streamlining.Handwavium: machines with moving parts use lubricants that eventually dissipate/get dirty, and generate fumes that contribute to pollution. Satisfied? :p
Kidding aside: I'm not ruling out picking-and-choosing which machines can conceivably generating pollution. A macerator sorta/kinda makes sense. A chemical reactor? Maybe. A centrifuge? Not really.
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Well, yes, I understand that certain things are better to not to do realistic, I just didn't consider other kinds of pollution, like stone and ore dust, metal residues, etc...
Now makes a little more sense.One thought: What you think about Ore Washer, Cutting Machine and other water using machines, producing dirty water? So it could be filtered and used again?
I know it would be a little more complicated - as some machines would need a output tank, and different from multiblocks, they don't void excess fluid - but I think that this could be kinda good to finite water users...Maybe It's not a thing to do now, but to consider to implement later;
I don't know Blood plans to this mod, But I would interesting if all high level machines ( >EV ) had multiblock versions (we already have a Smelter as a furnace alternative), So this output would be easy to do.And while I didn't wanted to go off-topic, I really want to say that I dislike the idea of the need of a Processing Array, for things like the fusion reactor.
Don't get wrong, Blood's idea great, but to mitigate another problem: the higher's tier EU consuption, forcing the lv machines spam.End game I don't really wanted to produce tons of LV centrifuges to put inside a multiblock.
I think that would be way better to have a Multiblock (maybe upgradeable?) version, like the Smelter - that would be way more interesting.
As that seems more applicable to the Fusion Process than anything else, I think that just new Multiblock Centrifuge and electrolyzer would end that problem.I know that my idea isn't too different from crafting a few Processing arrays, It's just I'm tired of making XXX lv pumps and motors using bronze and tin. Higher tiers materials could have even more use that way.
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It's just I'm tired of making XXX lv pumps and motors
Use AE2. There are no place (and need) for manual crafting in mid and late game.
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we need a new electric crafting table with all the electric tools we have now and a bronze age would be nice as well
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What's the word on the LHE output? Is a nerf inbound or am I safe to make a build assuming the current behavior is intended?
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Use AE2. There are no place (and need) for manual crafting in mid and late game.
Even so, I still will be making tons of LV machines at the endgame, while I will not touch 90% of the >MV ones;
