[GregTech-5][1.7.10-FORGE-1355+][Unofficial but approved Port][Stable] Even GT5 Experimental is slowly getting stable.


    Known (closed) bug: https://github.com/Blood-Asp/GT5-Unofficial/issues/787


    Remind me which build of GT you're using? I imagine only .28pre includes the fix.

    I'm running 5.09.25. It looks like it was fixed in 5.09.27. I've been holding off updating because of the chlorine issue which is only fixed in .28pre, but I guess I'll bite the bullet on grabbing a pre-release build.


    EDIT: .28pre crashes on load.


    Yeah, I did. Sorry, I didn't know that was a branch. Pre2 crashes as well, but .28pre works. I did get a warning about a missing block, crated tin ingots, but since I hadn't actually crated any tin that didn't seem like an issue.


    EDIT: Prospected 9 sites with .28pre installed, and got decent results. A couple of zeros, a handful of 10-20's, and one site yielding 212 L of heavy oil. I don't know how long that lasts yet, but that's obviously the place to start.

    Why is there a completely undocumented change to black wool instead of rubber? You're forcing the absolute worst and buggyist part of the vanilla game down people's throats to achieve basic electric machines without even disclosing this?


    Is there any way to undo this without recoding every single wire recipe in minetweaker?

    If you're talking about insulated tin cables, I always used paper. I've yet to use a single block of black wool for wiring. Paper is much easier to get, even when I was crafting it from sugarcane rather than wood pulp.

    Quote from Gus_Smedstad

    yielding 212 L of heavy oil. I don't know how long that lasts

    It contains totally 22419 B of Oil (in each chunk) and need 19.6 days (real days) to pump (from one chunk).

    Ideal Industrial Assembly (IIA) - my pretty hard industrial modpack based on GT5.09

    Идеальная Индустриальная Сборка (ИИС) - довольно сложный сугубо индустриальный модпак, базирующийся на GT5.09

    http://sapientmail.wixsite.com/minecraft

    After re-reading the wiki page, I worked out that, if the mechanics work as listed, it's (initial rate)^2 / 2 buckets of liquid in a deposit (or 1000x that if you express it in liters). Drilling a decent deposit is hugely more effective than mining oilsand. Which is how it should be, given that it's also considerably more effort.

    Quote from Requia

    Why is there a completely undocumented change to black wool instead of rubber? You're forcing the absolute worst and buggyist part of the vanilla game down people's throats to achieve basic electric machines without even disclosing this?


    Is there any way to undo this without recoding every single wire recipe in minetweaker?


    Undocumented? What are you talking about? It's in the changelog for 5.09.00:

    Quote

    ULV Cables can be isolated with paper, LV cables with wool+string


    I think somebody wrote a Minetweaker script a while back to allow making LV cables with liquid rubber in the assembler. If you can find that, it might save you some time from writing one yourself. Admittedly, that wouldn't save you from needing wool for cables until you'd built the assembler (and a few support machines to provide it with liquid rubber). Perhaps Gus's paper idea would work better for you. Alternatively, if farming sheep bothers you so much, you could adjust the settings for Sheep Ore from Fun Ores and get wool that way.



    Quote from Gus_Smedstad

    If you're talking about insulated tin cables, I always used paper. I've yet to use a single block of black wool for wiring. Paper is much easier to get, even when I was crafting it from sugarcane rather than wood pulp.


    afaik, that's not built into the mod, so perhaps you could share the Minetweaker script you're using for that?

    Quote from MauveCloud

    afaik, that's not built into the mod, so perhaps you could share the Minetweaker script you're using for that?


    I don't have minetweaker installed, though I'm thinking about it now.


    It turns out he's right. I was using paper to insulate tin up until I installed .28pre. The wool+string recipe was in there, but I never used it. Both wool and string were significantly harder to get than paper, and you need a lot of low-voltage insulation before you graduate to copper. Hell, wool+string are harder to get than sticky resin, though of course resin -> rubber requires machinery and wool doesn't.


    In the .27 changelog is this line:

    Quote from .27 changelog

    Fix ULV&LV cable recipes


    I'm guessing that this is the removal of the 32 volt paper recipes.

    Huh. Somehow I had never noticed the paper recipes for 32-volt cables, but I checked in .26 (which I already had in a MultiMC instance), and apparently it was there. Farming black sheep to get wool (which I could also macerate for the string until I built a packager) never bothered me that much, though.

    I think farming sheep is nearly unavoidable in Minecraft. I have a corrals with cows, chickens and sheep, though these days mostly I only pay attention to the cows for leather. They're all gray though, I'd have to dye the wool. Though why the wool color matters...?


    I didn't realize there was a macerator recipe for wool -> string. Because I've always found the shortage of string in Minecraft to be artificial, I installed a Flax mod before I even started GT5U. So mostly for me it would be the wool.

    Back to oil - it appears that there's no actual use in Gregtech for Heavy Fuel except as an intermediate product for things like toluene. Is that correct? It doesn't appear to burn either in diesel generators or boilers. It has an entry for the semifluid generator, but that's an IC2 machine and not useful for a Gregtech power network.


    I ask because I'm working on drilling that Heavy Oil source, and Heavy Fuel is the obvious product. Or I could just convert it to regular oil cheaply and feed it into my existing nitro diesel line. Which I'd do anyway to start, but I was sort of expecting that Heavy Fuel was supposed to be a better use for Heavy Oil.

    Quote

    Undocumented? What are you talking about? It's in the changelog for 5.09.00:


    The 'what I changed' section at the begging of the thread, rather than a list of every single bigfix for the last two years, should be listing major recipe changes.


    Is downgrading to .26 to use paper likely to cause invisible problems down the road?

    Quote from Gus_Smedstad

    I think farming sheep is nearly unavoidable in Minecraft. I have a corrals with cows, chickens and sheep, though these days mostly I only pay attention to the cows for leather. They're all gray though, I'd have to dye the wool. Though why the wool color matters...?


    I didn't realize there was a macerator recipe for wool -> string. Because I've always found the shortage of string in Minecraft to be artificial, I installed a Flax mod before I even started GT5U. So mostly for me it would be the wool.


    The wool color matters because the wool-based cable-insulation recipes specifically require black carpet. Also, remember that you can dye the sheep, and get the appropriate color of wool every time you shear them.


    BTW, GT already adds a flax crop, as well as spidernip (which has string as the primary drop, and spider eyes and cobwebs as the special drops).

    I think it's fairly important to use .28pre or later. My recent experience applies, since the Seismic Prospector reported 0L of oil for all sources prior to 0.27. In 0.27 chlorine is missing from important recipes like titanium refining, that's only fixed in 0.28pre at present.


    I think 0.26 is probably safe enough to use for a short time - but sooner or later you're going to want to update because of them.


    I suspect Blood Asp views paper-wrapped tin cables as a bug, and the change is fixing the bug, not a design change.


    --
    I understand the mechanical reasons why you have to die the wool, I just think it's a little odd that gray carpets can't insulate wire. I guess electrons are afraid of the color black.


    --


    The Gregtech flax isn't available at the start of the game, when string is actually a problem for basic things like a bow. Hell, I still haven't gotten Gregtech crops to work yet. From what little I understand, it'd take some time and a bit of luck to get Gregtech flax early enough to matter.

    My experience with IC2 crops in general is lots of time and luck applies (it took me a full day just to breed some medium fast sugar for a bioreactor), and since you need leveled seeds to produce mutations (or at least, I've only seen them with high level seeds) its impossible to do without a seed analyzer, so you need to already be in the electric age.


    Though, reconsidering paper as insulation makes a minetweaker script much easier, no need to un nerf rubber production first and its only actually 3 diferent wires that use carpet:


    Quote from Requia

    Though, reconsidering paper as insulation makes a minetweaker script much easier, no need to un nerf rubber production first and its only actually 3 diferent wires that use carpet:


    Seems reasonable.


    On a completely different topic, I'm thinking about Railcraft automated transport, and one choice is electric locomotives. However, I have been unable to get this to work easily, mainly because Railcraft wants Industrialcraft EU, doesn't recognize Gregtech battery buffers as a power source, and I've been unable to convert Gregtech EU to IndustrialCraft EU via any of the accepted methods.


    For example, an Industrialcraft BatBox next to a Railcraft Electrical Feeder is supposed to work. Gregtech cables connect to the Industrialcraft Batbox, but don't supply it with any power. Its charge sits stubbornly at zero, and the 32 volt Battery Buffer I'm using as a source shows no drain on the Mercury Battery.


    Not that I'm sure I want to do it that way, since my Creative experiments seem to indicate that locomotives (steam or electric) are strictly inferior to a near-vanilla booster track system. They're slower, and require energy and some logistics machinery. If I did, it would be purely as a self-imposed "no booster track" rule, on the theory that locomotives make sense and magic track that requires no energy doesn't.


    I've I did go that way, I'm looking at electric because it's less of a headache that steam locomotives. I'd just connect the electric track to my power grid, rather than trying to figure out some sort of system for auto-loading charcoal into the steam locomotives.

    A transformer will (or at least did back in GT5 official) output IC2-EU from a GT-EU input, might need IC2 cables to make it switch output but there's an easy config for that.

    Quote from Gus_Smedstad


    Back to oil - it appears that there's no actual use in Gregtech for Heavy Fuel except as an intermediate product for things like toluene. Is that correct? It doesn't appear to burn either in diesel generators or boilers. It has an entry for the semifluid generator, but that's an IC2 machine and not useful for a Gregtech power network.


    I ask because I'm working on drilling that Heavy Oil source, and Heavy Fuel is the obvious product. Or I could just convert it to regular oil cheaply and feed it into my existing nitro diesel line. Which I'd do anyway to start, but I was sort of expecting that Heavy Fuel was supposed to be a better use for Heavy Oil.

    What you can do with Heavy Fuel is to crack it, ideally with Hydrogen. This will give you 249L of Cracked Heavy Fuel for 128L of Heavy Fuel. Following that, run it through another distillation tower; 100L Cracked Heavy Fuel will give you 80L Refinery Gas, 10L Naphtha, 40L Light Fuel, 30L Toluene and 5L Lubricant. With the amount of Heavy Fuel that you get from Heavy Oil, plus the increase through cracking and hydrogen, you get insane amounts of nitro diesel, such that it way more than pays for the 320EU/t cracking recipe as well as having another distillation tower.


    Some math for each drum of Heavy Oil:
    256,000L Heavy Oil => 115,200L Light Fuel + 640,000L Heavy Fuel (Distillation Tower)
    640,000L Heavy Fuel => 1,245,000L Cracked Heavy Fuel (Oil Cracking Unit + Hydrogen)
    1,245,000 Cracked Heavy Fuel => 996,000L Refinery Gas + 124,500L Naphtha + 498,000L Light Fuel + 373,500L Toluene + 62,250L Lubricant (Distillation Tower)
    Assuming Toluene is distilled into Light Fuel and all Light Fuel is converted into Nitro Diesel,
    373,500L Toluene => 373,500L Light Fuel (Distillery)
    115,200L Light Fuel + 498,000L Light Fuel + 373,500L Light Fuel => 1,233,375L Nitro Diesel (Chemical Reactor)


    Each drum of Heavy Oil produces 631,488,000EU worth of energy from Nitro Diesel alone. Boosted by a Diesel Engine with Oxygen this is goes up to 947,232,000EU.