Energy Net improvements

    Quote from xbony2

    None of the devs have really been doing much to IC2 recently :S


    From a user perspective, the only things that have changed since the IC2 experimental team took over are new textures, cutter + forge hammer, metal former, and a bunch of new things nobody knows how to use because they aren't documented anywhere. The IC2 team seriously needs to consider bringing in someone who is willing to document everything somewhere. Maybe even an in-game guide of some sort? I'm sure that would be helpful.


    I know there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff and bugfixing going on, but it might as well be invisible. The IC2 e-net practically has EE3 syndrome at this point, it's "being worked on" for years without any notable releases. Also, it's kinda hilarious to me that EE3 has actually got a working dynamic emc system release before IC2 has a working e-net.

    • Official Post
    Quote from BBoldt

    a bunch of new things nobody knows how to use because they aren't documented anywhere.

    Speak for yourself.

    Quote from BBoldt

    The IC2 team seriously needs to consider bringing in someone who is willing to document everything somewhere.

    It's called the IC2 wiki. I'm doing stuff, but can't do everything on my own.

    Quote from BBoldt

    Maybe even an in-game guide of some sort?

    I'm making a HQM one, but it really takes a hell of a lot of time.


    Quote from BBoldt

    it's kinda hilarious to me that EE3 has actually got a working dynamic emc system release before IC2 has a working e-net.

    EE3 has been going since 1.2.5, it's really a bad comparison

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

    I guess I am highly curious as to what makes the energy net so difficult to work on and why it's been broken since IC2exp's inception. Also why everyone seems loathe to fix what really does seem to be IC2exp's glaringly-obvious Achilles heel. I mean ... isn't it just an evolution of the IC2 Classic energy net? Can nothing be gleaned or adapted from that at all? If not, what about GregTech 5? Greg has managed to have a fully-functional IC2 Classic-like energy net for how long now? Is collaboration there impossible?


    Quote from Chocohead

    Speak for yourself.


    I've found the same to be true. I mean ... I've found more solid documentation for GregTech than I have for IC2exp.

    • Official Post

    Most if the new things are pretty simple, and you can work them out in creative in like 5 mins. Some features, like the steam generator, are a little more complicated, but there's a big long wiki page I wrote about it. I think a lot of new mods are making people subconsciously lazy and causing them to shy away from things that aren't 100% obvious from the start, which doesn't encourage people to try and experiment with things like IC2's cool new stuff and help document it in the long run.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

    Quote from Chocohead

    Most if the new things are pretty simple, and you can work them out in creative in like 5 mins. Some features, like the steam generator, are a little more complicated, but there's a big long wiki page I wrote about it. I think a lot of new mods are making people subconsciously lazy and causing them to shy away from things that aren't 100% obvious from the start, which doesn't encourage people to try and experiment with things like IC2's cool new stuff and help document it in the long run.


    Having a core of documentation to begin with is quite nice, if not essential. Knowing nothing but the name and the very vague knowledge, if they even have that, of what it's supposed to do just isn't enough for a majority. And no, I don't think it means those people are lazy. It just means they want to know the basics of the systems in question so they can expand and learn from there.


    As a modpack creator, I like being able to grok the basics of a mod without needing to play through the entire thing myself so I know whether or not it would be a good fit for the pack, as well as how to tweak things so there is good interplay between them. If I had to do learn each and every mod from undocumented scratch ... I'd always be like half a year behind as Minecraft isn't my only hobby.

    i personally feel that the enet system needs to be completed.. set a final option and understand its not the best.. but a date should be set to make it function and have some options


    either make it fully realistic like UE where people can learn and understand and can use real world examples that transformers and such would be used in it... or make it simple and that transformers prevent loss over a distance goes up/down the EU/t and cables melt if you put too much through!



    this way others can focus on finishing up/making IC2 stable and work on new things for IC3

    • Official Post

    I just wanna point that out:

    Quote from BBoldt

    The IC2 team seriously needs to consider bringing in someone who is willing to document everything somewhere. Maybe even an in-game guide of some sort? I'm sure that would be helpful.


    I know there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff and bugfixing going on, but it might as well be invisible. The IC2 e-net practically has EE3 syndrome at this point, it's "being worked on" for years without any notable releases.

    Quote from SynfulChaot

    I'd always be like half a year behind as Minecraft isn't my only hobby.

    I think it is not done that easy...
    The Enet is not the only thing that is broken^^"
    The Gamebalance is also not that good. In terms of cost and complexibility...
    for some things you have to spend way much time. An example: The Drill...
    If you have TC (TinkersConstruct) installed the drill is no longer an option because it takes way longer to craft him and also his energy storage is way to small if we compared it with tools from TC that can use RF Power... Wait i can remeber that there was a EU Support for TC tools where and why is that gone?


    You are also right the documentation of the new Stuff is from dev side not really exsistend...

    Documentation is pretty good. I strongly believe balance is too. A tool with basically infinite durability should be in no way cheap.

    Help the Official FTB Wiki reach a billion pages! [I had to keep changing it so there ^^]

    Someone should fix the gravel texture in the background. It's been years now, come on people.

    Quote from xbony2

    Documentation is pretty good. I strongly believe balance is too. A tool with basically infinite durability should be in no way cheap.

    Well how do you compare that to TC tools?
    You can make them Inifite too when you put a RF upgrade on them...
    And they are way easier to create then any drill...

    Quote from Aroma1997

    That means TC and RF is unbalanced, not IC2...

    Well aroma, at some part you are right and some part you are wrong...
    IC2 Drill cost always the same, is always same coplex and you can not modify it at all. (The modify part is totally ok),
    but if you compare it to TC there is also a complexability there but it is much lower then the IC2 ones.


    IC2 Exp = You have todo a lot of stuff to get a tool that never breaks, can mine about 200-120 blocks (with backpack) and its mostly not worth.
    TC = You have to make a little bit of before steps and then you make a tool, and then it is the roule: You gain what you give.
    And to compare: TC tools have a way higher powercost with mining then Drills (i think its +10 times per block)

    Quote from SynfulChaot

    I guess I am highly curious as to what makes the energy net so difficult to work on and why it's been broken since IC2exp's inception. Also why everyone seems loathe to fix what really does seem to be IC2exp's glaringly-obvious Achilles heel. I mean ... isn't it just an evolution of the IC2 Classic energy net? Can nothing be gleaned or adapted from that at all? If not, what about GregTech 5? Greg has managed to have a fully-functional IC2 Classic-like energy net for how long now? Is collaboration there impossible?


    This.


    Just adopt the damn GT enet and be done with it. Do it. There isn't anything that can be come up with that is so vastly superior that it justifies X years of IC2-hiatus.


    IndustrialCraft is supposed to be a popular mod, not just one whose memory is sustained by oldschool users. I'd like to see this be true again.


    I have to agree with Aroma. TCon is ... wildly overpowered and 'cheap' compared to most non-TCon tools. Step back and take a look at any pack with TCon in it. How often do you see non-TCon tools or weapons being used? And when they *are* used, are they not (nearly) always the most powerful tools/weapons from their respective mods? It's to the point that, despite liking the concept of modular tools and the mechanics of the mod, I've removed it from my pack as noone even *touched* the other options with it around.


    Quote from Pyure

    Just adopt the damn GT enet and be done with it. Do it. There isn't anything that can be come up with that is so vastly superior that it justifies X years of IC2-hiatus.


    My feelings exactly. It's working, functional, and already in 1.7.10. Even if it isn't the final design for IC2exp's enet, it's still familiar to those that have played IC2 classic, it's intuitive if you engage your brain, and it's more complex than the RF-level of simplicity that the IC2exp enet is currently at. If I want RF-levels of simplicity I'll just play only RF mods, you know?

    Quote from SynfulChaot

    I have to agree with Aroma. TCon is ... wildly overpowered and 'cheap' compared to most non-TCon tools. Step back and take a look at any pack with TCon in it. How often do you see non-TCon tools or weapons being used? And when they *are* used, are they not (nearly) always the most powerful tools/weapons from their respective mods? It's to the point that, despite liking the concept of modular tools and the mechanics of the mod, I've removed it from my pack as noone even *touched* the other options with it around.

    Well i am not a fan of TC at all. Because of that overpowerdness, but if you remove all the modifiers (exept the charge one), then these tools can be compared with classic tools (i mean MC Tools sry), and they have then no Overpoweredness at all, but then they are still better then IC2 Drills...
    And i will say that now and that count only for EXP, even a DiamondPickaxe is better then any Drill from IC2 Exp, even without Enchantments and even when it is not unbreakable!
    One good side of the drill is it is not to expensive. It is from the price totally ok, but you need an entire AE system to get it done until 5 minutes.... (i know it is way to much time but it feels like you need 5 minutes for that) and who likes to craft multible things for 5 minutes without pausing? I mean that is the time of making a full Thaumcraft altar (max size) + all jars you need.... (Crafting time)


    Yeah it is working with a lot of bugs at least when you do not care really as addon maker...
    And RF..... Well thats one of the reasons why i stay on 1.6.4 with BC energy and IC2 Classic...
    We have TE3 & i use the EnergyCells but they store MJ... So do not have to care about that part....

    • Official Post

    Crafting it doesn't take 5 mins, and you can't automate it (turning table FTW). It's really not that complicated a recipe, simply you craft drills so infrequently you don't get used to the actions. After using IHL I can craft an electric motor from scratch in like 15 seconds.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

    My personal feeling on the cost of recharging tools is that the baseline cost for any rechargeable tool should be set by the base mod for that power system. For RF tools, that's Redstone Arsenal. For EU it's ... IC2. Other mods should strive to retain that balance. It shouldn't be on the base mods to 'up their power level' to compete with tools external to the mod, even if they do utilize the same power system.

    • Official Post

    As if RF could ever have unified balance. Big Reactors is evidence how much that idea failed.

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

    Quote from Chocohead

    As if RF could ever have unified balance. Big Reactors is evidence how much that idea failed.


    RF is 'balanced' with mods that want to retain that sense of balance. The Thermal series, Buildcraft, Railcraft, and Forestry all retain it well. The problem comes with mods utilizing the API in ways that 'up the power level', such as Big Reactors. That's not a fault of RF directly. The same thing could happen with EU as well if a mod creator wanted to do the same.


    I'll note that I don't use BR. Not because it's OP (It's configurable, so I'd nerf the generation rates *immensely*) but because it has no failure conditions. I'm sorry, but a nuclear reactor should go critical if you don't do it right.