Solar power, a complaint...


    If you could do that (make the map) that would be awesome, adds a third party to the competiton. You can even be the judge :D
    And hosting it anywhere is fine by me. I have a Core2 Q6600 with 4 gigs of ram and an SSD drive to run the server on and 100 MBit internet located on the west coast in Sweden.
    Performance isn't vitally important though but if we could have EQUAL performace that would make things more... equal?

    All of the possible host systems I have access to are on the pacific coast of the US. I'll investigate if it'll fit within my 512mb Linode in the Sanfran area, otherwise the next best option is the slightly more overloaded (but lower cost for more memory) option from a different data-center in that area. Both are quite close to the backbone netwise, so ping times to Europe are about as ideal as could be expected. If you're both in Europe then it makes more sense for someone there to host the map.

    Quote from Cadde

    Plus, i have already agreed with you on Solar being more expensive in all resources except iron and glass blocks. T

    Clear evidence you didnt read my post AGAIN. Solars needed like 2x more iron than the windgens.


    Also give me a good reason why i should waste my time to proof to you that solars cost tons and tons more resources. Its already in the numbers and its a really big diference. I dont see a reason to spend more time than i already spend on this forum to proof this oblivious fact.

    Quote from Rick

    Clear evidence you didnt read my post AGAIN. Solars needed like 2x more iron than the windgens.


    Also give me a good reason why i should waste my time to proof to you that solars cost tons and tons more resources. Its already in the numbers and its a really big diference. I dont see a reason to spend more time than i already spend on this forum to proof this oblivious fact.


    You are not ready to stand behind your claims i see. Oh well then we are done here.

    Quote from Rick

    Also give me a good reason why i should waste my time to proof to you that solars cost tons and tons more resources.


    Because you're being asked to defend your assertion. As they say, "Put Up, or Shut Up".
    If you're right, it should be very easy for you to demonstrate. Are you scared that you can't back up your claims after all?


    Quote

    Its already in the numbers and its a really big diference. I dont see a reason to spend more time than i already spend on this forum to proof this oblivious fact.


    Wonderful Freudian slip, there... you probably don't even notice.

    Quote from Cadde

    Yeah, no matter how you twist and turn it. Ping times to the US is >100 ms for normal people.


    Normal people live everywhere. European servers would have ~1/3 globe circumference speed of light delay and several tens of mS in total routing hardware delay for anyone living in my timezone (as a minimum).


    I'll have to prepare a vanilla + IC2 client first, my usual package includes BC2 and RP2; shouldn't take all that long now that I'm actually home. (though the map editing will be painful enough in MCEdit that I'll probably need up to and possibly through later tonight to complete it)

    well, i meant normal people around where i live. I just didn't put my thoughts into text.


    And you don't have to but if you could then that would be very appreciated. However, wait until Rick actually wan'ts to back up his "facts".

    I also have capacity available on my server (16GB i5, symmetric 25Mbit)


    Will be mostly unavailable until after Christmas, though. :(


    Heck, I'd be willing to play the wind gen part, just 'cause it sounds like fun. lol

    Quote from SpeedDaemon

    I also have capacity available on my server (16GB i5, symmetric 25Mbit)


    Will be mostly unavailable until after Christmas, though. :(


    Heck, I'd be willing to play the wind gen part, just 'cause it sounds like fun. lol


    Well, i am still up for the challenge. Get the issue settled once and for all. It doesn't have to be Rick doing it as long as we can get the actual differences tested in the practical world.

    I'm currently at the stage where I have a locally hosted server to put the finishing touches on this in. I generated 1024x512 blocks (2048 chunks according to MCEdit) and then copied, rotated 180 and pasted. The center has a gutter of bedrock filling in 3 tiles from each side (6 across) and 64 high; the 64 above that are empty air. In the middle are two chests.


    It looks like everything that doesn't have to think got copied correctly. Unfortunately it seems that rubber trees might need some extra data for the sap-holes; I'm planning on adding these things to the chests, but want some feedback before I customize that.



    Quote

    * Each person starts with a SINGLE diamond pickaxe, a SINGLE diamond axe and a SINGLE diamond shovel.
    * Each person also starts with 10 personal safes (or 20 chests if personal safe isn't available), a Generator, a macerator, a stack of logs and 4 stacks of glowstone. Nothing more, the rest has to be manually harvested and crafted. (The reason for the starting resources is to even out the extreme starting point "grind" and the fact that starting out can fluctuate wildly in time taken to get set up intially. Glowstone is added because going to the nether is very much beside the point of this test.
    * The map has a trench dug from sky to bedrock that is 16 blocks wide to prevent any accidental digging across borders.


    10 - personal safe


    256 - Glowstone dust
    64 - Wood
    64 - Charcoal
    32 - sticky sap
    8 - rubber-tree saplings
    1 - diamond pickaxe
    1 - diamond shovel
    1 - Iron axe
    1 - Iron hoe
    1 - diamond sword (I think mobs should be on, but don't want luck of the draw in facing them to be a factor in this)
    2 - empty buckets
    4 - slices of watermellon (I'm not sure what sections of mines exist within it; so initial jumpstart bonus)



    If you want machines there's enough stuff in this chest to make them, but I won't force a specific set.




    32 tin ore
    32 copper ore
    32 iron ore


    If I give -any- tech I'd want to skip directly to having all of the basic elements in play (to remove bias of favoring one process or another over the world's features); otherwise you should be making runs down to bedrock to grab initial supplies and proceeding from there.


    Edit: Inventory, revision #4.


    PS. Sorry for getting tripped up on the details last night; yes you did note that, however it slipped my mind in a quick reply.

    Quote from HeadHunter67


    Because you're being asked to defend your assertion. As they say, "Put Up, or Shut Up".
    If you're right, it should be very easy for you to demonstrate. Are you scared that you can't back up your claims after all?



    Wonderful Freudian slip, there... you probably don't even notice.

    Would you spend hours to proof to somebody 1+1=2?

    Quote from Rick

    Would you spend hours to proof to somebody 1+1=2?

    About that; I was thinking that a specific output of generator isn't really a viable measure.


    I propose the goal should be a pair of Q-boots; with all energy for the mass-fab produced via wind/solar. If you want to use a generator/geo-gen for the miner/sub-machines that's fine.


    Here's the current version of the world http://mproj.net/static/gen-compet.7z

    Thanks MJ, but i feel Rick isn't up to the task. And he thinks 1+1=2 is equally simplistic to solar power being OP against wind power. That is a very simple mindset from a very simple mind IMHO.


    EDIT:


    About the ingots, good call, makes sense!
    But about the Q boots, wouldn't it suffice to give each player a set of 8 MFSU's or something along those lines. The person who fills his 8 MFSU's first (using wind/solar) wins? There might even be a solution for a detector cable in there somehow?
    Obviously the MFSU's will not be in serial as that would limit the energy production to 512 EU/t. I doubt we will breach 4096 EU/t...


    And about mobs... Creepers are very random and if they blow up your MFSU's or your matter generator etc etc. That doesn't a good test make.
    I am not afraid of them but i can only imagine the frustration when after a few hours of hardcore competition one player gets the odd creeper that spoils the test. We don't get a definite answer that way.


    EDIT #2: You have a PM MJEvans!

    Cadde you prolly are someone with no education at all if you are making posts like that. And for your info i study mechanical engineering at the university not exactly a low mindset.


    btw make some system that gives each player 1 iron, coal, copper and tin per min. That removes the 'luck' aspect in finding the ores for a better fair test.

    Quote from Rick

    Would you spend hours to proof to somebody 1+1=2?


    I have - we all have. Every time we try to get you to see the facts. This whole thread has been trying to prove that to you.
    And honestly, if you told me "1+1=2", I'd ask you to prove it - because you've got a history of drawing dubious conclusions from tentative "facts".


    It sounds to me like you're trying really hard to avoid putting your money where your mouth is. So, scared it is, after all.


    As for Cadde, he and I often don't get along, but I can tell he's intelligent. It's apparent in the way people write. Your posts look like they were texted from a teenager's phone - but that's OK. You don't need an IQ over 100 to study mechanical engineering... just to succeed at it. Why do I have the feeling your career will be summed up by the phrase "Obviously a major malfunction"?

    Seems you are too dumb to even understand what iam saying. Its kinda sad you cannot understand some simple maths but dont blame me for that blame yourself.


    So far i was the only one to actualy post some good proof to backup my arguments:
    This are the resources you need for 128 solars
    384 coal
    384 glass
    768 redstone
    1280 iron
    832 copper
    512 tin
    1024 cobblestone


    This are the resources you need for 52 windgens:
    The ~1800 glass for the platform
    624 iron
    416 cobblestone
    208 tin
    104 redstone
    26 copper


    I havent seen you posting anything else than 'BUT SOLARS ARE EASIER TO SETUP' which you kept telling me like 1000 times. But you never looked at the huge diference in resource costs which more than compensates that. Then you asked me to join some multiplayer competition knowing i would obliviously refuse because it would take alot of time. Atleast you where smart enough to realise that.

    Look at how we write. Then look at your own posts. Tell me which of us is "dumb".
    You are the Dunning-Kruger poster child if ever there was one.
    "Simple" math is all you know.


    If you spent as much effort backing up your words as you are trying to weasel out of it, the matter would be settled. If you're so sure of your theory, you've been offered an opportunity to prove that it also works in practice.
    Numbers on paper are one thing - but as any statistician will tell you, numbers can be used to "prove" anything.


    For instance, I could take the fact that the average IQ is 100 (a statistical inevitability by its very definition), and extrapolate that to prove a simple "fact":
    Given my IQ of 142, yours must be 58. Numbers don't lie! ;)