Great Guide. 
I get a problem with Autocrafting 1.3.0. The part 4 I do not understand. What should the Retriever do on this construction without any Redstone signal. I thing he is useless ??? 
[Tutorial] Efficiency, advanced lagfree Mechanics and logisticspipesfree recursive Autocrafting, with IC², Redpower and Tubestuff (including Windmillengineering by SpwnX) - Incredibly outdated, GT offers automation now.
- GregoriusT
- Closed
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Great Guide.
I get a problem with Autocrafting 1.3.0. The part 4 I do not understand. What should the Retriever do on this construction without any Redstone signal. I thing he is useless ???
That one Retriever (i think you mean the one next to the Relay), is the Defaultroute for overflown Items, because it would otherwise flow somewhere else, where you dont want it.
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Yes I mean this Retriever.
I understand the Relay as default route, so other active modules can use the Relay as alternativ Chest and the Relay put it back to the Sorting Machine. I was thinking a Retriever as a active module to getting items from other position by Redstone trigger impuls.
On my tests you can not put items over a tube to the Retriever like a Chest. -
Let me start by saying I love your and SpwnX's guides. Thanks for sharing them.
Now, I've been wanting to check this myself for the long time now, but haven't found time to do it. So let me just ask.From what I know, the ultimate goal of your guides is to completely get rid of Buildcraft and its laggy pipes and engines. A noble cause which I completely approve of, but Buildcraft has an addon called teleport pipes. I'm sure it needs no introduction. From what I know, RedPower doesn't have the equivalent, meaning that if you wanted to transform items over large distances, you would need to build long tube system.
I do not wish to start a flame war here,
but I'm simply curious: are RedPower tubes so lag-free that transporting items over large distances with them would cause not more lag than by teleport pipes? Now, when I say 'large distances' I mean several chunks, probably not more than the vertical distance from the top to the bottom of the map. No need to transfer items over half of the globe. 
I would be glad to know if you tested it, and if so the result of your tests.
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Buildcraft has an addon called teleport pipes. I'm sure it needs no introduction. From what I know, RedPower doesn't have the equivalent, meaning that if you wanted to transform items over large distances, you would need to build long tube system.
Are RedPower tubes so lag-free that transporting items over large distances with them would cause not more lag than by teleport pipes? Now, when I say 'large distances' I mean several chunks, probably not more than the vertical distance from the top to the bottom of the map.
The GregTower2 has a long Magtube, which goes from Layer 12 to Layer 237, with a large Sortingmachine at Layer 61, and the Tubepathfinding doesnt Lag at all.
The only Lag you can get with Tubes is graphical Lag (even with Optifine), and only if you come close to a very busy Tubesystem like this:
This System is inside a 5x5-Chunkloaded Area, and when i get outside the Tower the Lag disappears, what means that its graphical Lag. Thats a perfect way to test if something would Lag a Server or only the Client.
Magtubes are perfect for transporting Items over long Distances, and if you combine all Items to stacks, before sending them across the Magtube, then you will get almost no Lag at all.
If you really want to Teleport Items, then there are several Ways to do so:
1. Use the IC²-Teleporter (it can also teleport Items since 1.97)
2. Use the Enderchest-Mod by Chickenbones
3. Use Thaumcrafts Teleportseals (but thats currently only SSP) -
Thanks for the explanation.
It's not that I necessarily want to use teleport pipes (but they do make it easier when compacting pipe systems
), I was only curious about all that lagging. So I guess there are 2 types of lag--the one that comes with bad code and/or system design and the graphical one, that we can't do much about.Incidentally, is there a more detailed description (or a map, perhaps) of the cobblegen tower (this one: http://forum.industrial-craft.…achment&attachmentID=1284)? That image (is it SpwnX's?) tells a lot, but I'd like to know more about it. I've read through the guides but didn't find any more detailed description of it (but I might have missed it).
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So I guess there are 2 types of lag: the one that comes with bad code and/or system design and the graphical one, that we can't do much about.
There are even more types of Lag. If you count all, then:
- Connectionlag (Bad Internetconnection in SMP)
- Graphical Lag (Mostly soved via Optifine)
- Fragmentationlag (Minecraft 1.2.5 and lower cause that in SSP, if you travel too often between diffrent Dimensions, but its solved in 1.3)
- Soundlag (can only be solved with deleting certain Sounds, what is almost impossible, but i finally found a way)
- CPU-Lag (Just inefficient coded Features)I will add a more detailed List on Page 5
That image (is it SpwnX's?) tells a lot.
The Image is from me on SpwnX old Testmap.
Edit: Added many Informations about Lag on Page 5.
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Gregorius, please change clockless gen pic to this one :
It explains redstone delay (And i discovered that 4 redstone ticks also works nicely, probably better than 3 tick delay)
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Gregorius, please change clockless gen pic to this one :
It explains redstone delay (And i discovered that 4 redstone ticks also works nicely, probably better than 3 tick delay)*Changed*
I added simple IC²-Pump-based Snowballproduction to Page 4.
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Added many Informations about Lag on Page 5.
Thanks, I had no idea half of those things could cause lag! You learn something new every day.
I have a question, though, regarding the graphical lag. I noticed sometimes, especially in my base, that being near pipes (God, have to finally change for tubes
) I lag slightly. When I go a chunk or two away, the lag disappears. It would probably mean that it's the graphical lag, according to your description.My question is: would covering the tubes/pipes with some blocks (the tubes can be neatly covered with those fancy thin slabs made with handsaw) cause the lag to go away, or are the items traveling through them still rendered, unless the player moves away some distance? Have you ever checked it?
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That should work, I am fairly certain that only what is visible is rendered, However I believe there settings in Optifine to change that.
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EDIT: If your recipe produces a container item, like empty bucket from water bucket, you need to tweak the Gregorius autocrafting system a bit. Like this:
The filter at the bottom of the ACT2 leads toward bucket filing system.
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My question is: would covering the tubes/pipes with some blocks (the tubes can be neatly covered with those fancy thin slabs made with handsaw) cause the lag to go away, or are the items traveling through them still rendered, unless the player moves away some distance? Have you ever checked it?
Nope that doenst help. I tried once to do so on my older Computer, and i lagged as long as my Waterproofpipenetwork was there (no matter if empty or full). It doesnt matter how you cover Stuff, because Minecraft renders all Transparent Blocks, and all Redpowerblocks except the Ores/Rubbertreelogs/Gemblocks are Transparent for the Renderingengine. You can only try to make a House of solid Blocks around your Contraptions, to cause no Lag outside your House.
thepowdertoy:
That's just a 90°-Rotation of my System, to enable the bottomside of the Machine. This is how my first try looked alike, but i scrapped it due to Spaceconsumption. Also i avoided that Spaceeater with Tincells, because they are also needed for Coolantcells.I wonder why you didnt came to the Idea, to use my System with the IC²-Machines.
Why is there a Retrievulator adjacent to a Terminator? And is that Blutric Wire really out of Diamond?, because i made every blutric Wire in my Workshop out of Diamond.
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Yes, its just a 90 degrees rotation, because currently I'm a tin pincher, or maybe I can replace the tin cell with wax capsules. At least until I can set up a descent mining system, then I can use tin cells. For the retrievulator adjacent to a terminator (or incinerator), I create this in my test world, so that terminator is just for testing the entire system. Currently its unused, because I already connect the autocrafting system to the main Forestry IC2 power generation system, replacing my Buildcraft autocrafting table . And for the diamond blulectric cable, it because it is in my creative and NEI test world, not in my survival world. And I don't need any cooling cells, because the server that I played on only allowed nuclear reactor only for donators. And BC quarry.
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You may noticed the extreme Lag caused by Solar (and other
ULV-Energysources), this is because of the huge amount of EU-Packets
travelling through the Cable (mostlikely Tincable). I suggested a
less-lag-Idea to Alblaka and he replied with i would have to add AT LEAST TWO LINES OF CODE to implement it, so hopefully this is dividing ULV-Lag through five[...]So I guess our industrial overlords haven't implemented the fix you suggested yet?
Because yesterday I built several wind towers (design courtesy of SpwnX ) and my base started lagging last the last sh*t. 
It must be because of the metric crapton of EU packets traveling eventually all the way down from height ~170 to around 80 through the glass fiber.Shame, because I really, really like them. Too bad there aren't any one-block wind towers, like those compressed solars by cpw.
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So I guess our industrial overlords haven't implemented the fix you suggested yet?
Because yesterday I built several wind towers (design courtesy of SpwnX ) and my base started lagging last the last sh*t. It must be because of the metric crapton of EU packets traveling eventually all the way down from height ~170 to around 80 through the glass fiber.Shame, because I really, really like them. Too bad there aren't any one-block wind towers, like those compressed solars by cpw.
I have a Windtestmap from SpwnX, and it has more than 6400 Windmills, and i do not Lag. Thats most likely a Soundissue or a "Check every surrounding Block for Air"-Issue, what is just causing CPU-Lag on VERY Bad Computers, because they fixed all the E-net-Lag.
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I have a Windtestmap from SpwnX, and it has more than 6400 Windmills, and i do not Lag. Thats most likely a Soundissue or a "Check every surrounding Block for Air"-Issue, what is just causing CPU-Lag on VERY Bad Computers, because they fixed all the E-net-Lag.
Huh, it can't (probably) be the sound because I disabled it in the IC2 config file. Can you shed some more light on the "Check every surrounding Block for Air"-issue? Can it be avoided somehow? I noticed that every border tower in SpwnX's map is blocked by glass blocks for some reason. Is it maybe to prevent this kind of lag?
Or maybe I went a little overboard with the cobblegenerator?
I will to have to get rid of both it and the towers to see what exactly causes the lag. Imma kill the friggin' lag with combustible lemons. -
Huh, it can't (probably) be the sound because I disabled it in the IC2 config file. Can you shed some more light on the "Check every surrounding Block for Air"-issue? Can it be avoided somehow? I noticed that every border tower in SpwnX's map is blocked by glass blocks for some reason. Is it maybe to prevent this kind of lag?
No, thats to prevent the Windmills from breaking (too much Wind = breaking). And that Issue can only be solved by removing the Windmills.
Or maybe I went a little overboard with the cobblegenerator?
That could be your Problem. Cant you simply switch your Cobblegens OFF, instead of destroying them?
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Cant you simply switch your Cobblegens OFF, instead of destroying them?
If you think that should be enough, then I sadly report it didn't help much. Because that was the first thing I checked yesterday.
I will try to diagnose it more clearly once I get back home. MCEdit will be able to clear my map of windmills and cobblegens quite easily for testing purposes, so I should pinpoint which one of those causes the lag quite quickly. And it has to be either the wind towers or the cobblegens, because I didn't do anything else with my base recently.
God, I would hate if it turned out I have to get rid of wind power because of the lag. I really like those towers.
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God, I would hate if it turned out I have to get rid of wind power because of the lag. I really like those towers.
You can be happy, that you dont have Fragmentationlag in your Base. I have to restart the Game every 45 Minutes, what could cause my last Waterucket-CASUC to explode randomly.
