are forge and modloadermp now mutually exclusive? If so, why?
EDIT: n/m Found lex's reason on the BC/Forge forum. Still confused as to why two mod compatibility layers that each have their own package structure can't coexist, each with their own set of mods, but oh well...
are forge and modloadermp now mutually exclusive? If so, why?
A better question is that if your eyes and your brain are mutually exclusive. Read the replies before asking things that were already answered.
Still confused as to why two mod compatibility layers that each have their own package structure can't coexist, each with their own set of mods, but oh well...
Because both have their own hooks in the basefiles, aka "own" basefiles. Installing two equally-named files into the same directiory trivially overrides one of them.
More metaphorically spoken, MCForge and MLMP are tools. Minecraft does only have one hand to hold one of the tools at once, though. (In this regard, you can consider ModLoader a gauntlet you need to wear to be able to use either tool)
Because both have their own hooks in the basefiles, aka "own" basefiles. Installing two equally-named files into the same directiory trivially overrides one of them.
More metaphorically spoken, MCForge and MLMP are tools. Minecraft does only have one hand to hold one of the tools at once, though. (In this regard, you can consider ModLoader a gauntlet you need to wear to be able to use either tool)
As soon as you said "basefiles" I had the DOH! moment. Thanks for the great response!
Although its true that now you need to choose between forge or modloadermp, apparently you are the only one who sees that as a bad thing.
Forge will now include his own modloadermp, what does this really means?
What it means is you have to choose. Intent isn't relevant. You say you like facts, try sticking to them if you are going to behave badly..
It's great that Lex saw a problem and fixed it. I have no issue with that and it will probably be great for the server side users .
I have issue with mods dictating choice. It's also great that Lex is more of a man the FC and doesn't have a hissy fit, all the same he is doing exactly what FC did. Making the mod he devs on intentionally incompatible.
It's an extremely bad precedent for a mod that is there to support compatibility and from what I am reading it wasn't necessary to make it incompatible.
And waste of space? What? Do you live in the 80-90's where the best Hard drive in existence had 5mb Max? Forge+Modloader+Modloadermp for 1.2.3 weights less than a frigging MB (612Kb if you want to get technical). That there is a lot of shit you will barely use? True, its also true for most IDE's and a assorted lot of programs. You don't modify the whole of minecraft so by your logic anything that you don't use or modify its a waste of space huh? You use what you need to use and ignore the rest, I bet alblaka or anyone of the IC2 dev team don't use the entirety of forge for IC2, just what they need from it, nothing more nothing less.
Once again you are better off sticking to facts and not opinion. The fact is that every extra line of code is a potential memory leak or a potential critical issue. Even in the age of plenty of ram and disk clean code is always better than bloat. Simple is always better. Apparently you have never had an issue with MC leaking memory or corrupting saves. The rest of us mortals have.
And i choose to be a dick because its what comes natural to me, i choose to remain a dick because i fucking check my facts before running my mouth so i don't look like an idiot instead of a dick.
In my experience people who "choose to be a dick" do so because it's easy. As far as checking facts you may want to go read up on the definition of fact. You seem to messing it up a bit.
You do not have to use Forge to use Forge Mod Loader. Please see this link - it is completely stand alone and relies on no forge functions. As such, they are not forcing ANYONE to use forge - just to use their Mod Loader for networking. It does things how ModLoaderMP should have done things in the first place, and uses Mojang's Packet 250 - meaning it will be easier for bukkit plugins to be made with a clientside part. Good news all round really!
That i like to stick to the facts or at least know those, doesn't mean i can't speak my opinion.
And i still stick to the part that you are one of the few that sees this change as a bad thing.
What it means is you have to choose
When haven't you had to choose between your favorite mods?
Lex owes you nothing, the modder's who make these mods owe you nothing, you are choosing to use their mod with others, not them. If it doesn't work because one author made a decision then suck it up and say "fine, okay, your mod, your rules, I'll play your way." or simply don't play.
Quotehe is doing
exactly what FC did. Making the mod he devs on intentionally
incompatible.
It's an extremely bad precedent for a mod that is
there to support compatibility
No, what Lex did was more like saying, "oh, hey I'm making this super awesome mod, there's more planned, but you're welcome to make the current versions of you're mods compatible." And then people complaining when the new updates break compatibility, and the old compatible mods don't want to, or can't be bothered, trying for compatibility again. Its the OTHER mod's choices to NOT use forge, it was basically a given from the start that forge would grow and expand, expecting non-forge mods to remain compatible indefinitely was a ridiculous notion. Forge isn't responsible for the compatibility of mods that don't use forge, how can it be? Yes, it was nice that many non-forge mods worked before, but that was just a 'bonus' that the devs used the same modloadermp that was in widespread use elsewhere.
Quotefrom what I am reading it wasn't
necessary to make it incompatible.
Have you ever coded before?
A properly written API is a godsend a lot of the time, granted, most mods make use mostly of the forge api itself, which is wonderful, but haven't you wondered why there are so many SSP only forge mods?
So, while, no, it wasn't necessary to make FML, Lex decided it was time to move on from an outdated, and apparently crappy system, which, HELLO, happens ALL THE TIME in RL, why should this be different.
QuoteDisplay MoreOnce
again you are better off sticking to facts and not opinion. The fact is
that every extra line of code is a potential memory leak or a potential
critical issue. Even in the age of plenty of ram and disk clean code
is always better than bloat. Simple is always better. Apparently you
have never had an issue with MC leaking memory or corrupting saves. The
rest of us mortals have.
You,my good sir (or ma'am), just contradicted yourself. "Clean code is always better than bloat", what do you THINK the entire point of FML was...
Not to mention that argument in itself is invalid as you don't need the entire forge api if you're not going to use it, as stated above, FML is available standalone.
There ought to be an "upvote" option for posts like this.
Agreed. 
More metaphorically spoken, MCForge and MLMP are tools. Minecraft does only have one hand to hold one of the tools at once, though. (In this regard, you can consider ModLoader a gauntlet you need to wear to be able to use either tool)
I'm sorry about how off-topic this is, but I want to get my metaphor straight:
If MLMP and MCForge are tools that are held in a metaphorical hand, and Risu's modloader is a gauntlet that is needed to hold the tools, then I'm pretty sure that Minecraft is a body, the .minecraft folder is the arm, minecraft.jar is a hand, the saves folder is a house under construction, Industrialcraft, buildcraft, etc. are awesome materials to build the house that require special tools to use, BTW is some sort of cybernetic augment for the hand that precludes the use of other tools, Equivalent Exchange is a set of materials so badass that it is critized for it, Redpower is a set of materials made by a company rumored to be stealing. . . I've forgotten where I was going with this.
