Suggestion : [Hydrogen Fuel Cells]

1st Official Post

    Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology is seen as something of an answer to the future of vehicle fuel. We all know oil is running short and this is one way of filling the gap. The fuel works by 'burning' the liquid hydrogen and the only emission is water vapor. But the only sticking point currently is the lack of ability to produce the bulk quantities of liquid hydrogen cheaply and 'greenly' enough to satisfy the worlds' fuel demands.


    I can see a way this tech would work in IC however.... The resulting fuel cells could be burnt in a modified generator with the same sort of output as, say, a geothermal generator (~20 EU/t), but unlike Lava, the supply doesn't dry up, a reward for making the effort. 4 buckets of water are pumped into tanks and then passed into a 'liquid hydrogen processor' (They're basically a cross between a compressor and a refridgeration system, that cools and compresses the 4 buckets into an empty energy cell. One 'liquid hydrogen' cell is the result.


    This cell can then either be burnt in a 'modified' geothermal generator or passed into a new engine, that has has power somewhere between steam and combustion, but much less chance of explosion, since less heat is generated, but it will still require some cooling.


    Any thoughts on this?

    We do, but that only produces cells that have a 10% degredation on return. 15,000 EU in for 13,500 EU out. This idea is for a new fuel type that produces good EU, but requires some effort to run effectively. A good MV option range before the HV nuclear.


    The liquid hydrogen production unit would require at least 15 EU/t to function, so LV really isn't an option, unless you shut everything else down to power it. The output power is only around 20 EU/t so that would be basically be a full time production, so a wind turbine array or solar would be the first step. But one production unit could roughly supply 2 generators and the emptied cells would be available to be fed back to the production unit for reuse.

    • Official Post
    Quote from GregoriusT

    You do know about the laws of physics? (DO NOT COME ME, WITH THE FLOATING-DIRTBLOCK-ARGUMENT)


    You need more Energy to produce Hydrogen out of Water, than you can get by burning it.

    Yep, otherwise you will be creating energy from nothing :P

    Fair enough, point taken. What's the ratio then? I'm guessing a little energy will be lost through production, but the electro cells have 10% loss, and they are LV to MV for their uses, it must be slightly better.

    Quote from SpwnX

    Yep, otherwise you will be creating energy from nothing :P

    And as a french guy I would say, quoting Lavoisier "Rien ne se perd, rien ne se créé, tout se transforme" (Nothing is lost, nothing is created, all can be turned into other things)
    That's the basic law of the physic/chimy.
    And Burning Hydrogen isn't very efficient: 60% wasted energy, vs 10 for using it in ionic Battery.


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

    What you're suggesting is then completely pointless. What you just said is an exact and perfect description of an electrolyzer. The best you could hope for is a revamp of the now existing electrolyzer, which I also think is rather needed. The 10 eu/t is simply too slow. In any decent world, your entire input is already bigger than that.


    BTW, Electrolyzer is only available for MV and HV.

    The only imaginable use for hydrogen fuel cells is storing and transporting energy, which crystals and lapotrons already do magnificently. I don't really see where else you'd go with them other than what the electrolyzer already does. With a stack of water cells you can store an amount of energy rivaling lapotrons for super cheap. I think that's a pretty decent use.

    Quote from yasminB

    A hydrogen vehicle is a vehicle that uses hydrogen as its onboard fuel for motive power. Hydrogen vehicles include hydrogen fueled space rockets, as well as automobiles and other transportation vehicles. Some time ago, Toyota promised a hydrogen vehicle in 2015. The Toyota hydrogen car is still expected for that year. Widespread use of hydrogen for fueling transportation is a key element of a proposed hydrogen economy.

    I don't know why you're telling us this story, but what the hell, I'll get into it.
    I used to be a big believer in a future hydrogen economy, but I've become disillusioned since. The idea of superconducting megacables conveying gigawatts of energy around the planet, cooled by liquid hydrogen that would itself become energy at the destination was a fantastic dream.


    The major draw of hydrogen fuel is a supposedly clean, 100% renewable source of energy; but in reality, it's no such thing. Hydrogen cracking plants would still draw power from the grid, and the grid will include oil and coal plants for the forseeable future, so you're only turning dirty, nonrenewable power into a different form and losing efficiency in the process.


    Hydrogen offers no substantial advantage over gas-electric or pure electric vehicles; like electric, it has problems with power and range, but these issues are being addressed in both systems. The major disadvantage hydrogen has is that you would need an entirely new energy infrastructure to support it; a million or more hydrogen gas stations, not to mention all the transport and refining infrastructure.


    With electric, all the infrastructure is already there. (and this is true in IC as well).


    Hydrogen is kind of a pipe dream.

    Quote from MatLaPatate

    And as a french guy I would say, quoting Lavoisier "Rien ne se perd, rien ne se créé, tout se transforme" (Nothing is lost, nothing is created, all can be turned into other things)
    That's the basic law of the physic/chimy.
    And Burning Hydrogen isn't very efficient: 60% wasted energy, vs 10 for using it in ionic Battery.


    But if you use a hydrogen burning cell, which actually doesn't burn, but rather create an electrical flow by forcing the elctrons to take a specific path, so that they can be combined with protons (correct me if im wrong), the efficiency can become nearly 99%. That is the technology that hydrogen cars use.
    And btw, hydrogen is also (But you can't ignite it by, say, shooting at it).

    Age: 16. Favourite school subject: Physics/Chemistry.


    The IC2 forums could really use a lot more of [REDACTED], [DATA EXPUNGED] and ████████.


    I'm in a so called "after-school". It's freaking fantastic and nowhere near as boring as normal school!

    Quote from wasmic


    But if you use a hydrogen burning cell, which actually doesn't burn, but rather create an electrical flow by forcing the elctrons to take a specific path, so that they can be combined with protons (correct me if im wrong), the efficiency can become nearly 99%. That is the technology that hydrogen cars use.
    And btw, hydrogen is also (But you can't ignite it by, say, shooting at it).

    No, thefficency is about 50 percent, due to heat production and entropy.

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