[GregTech-6][1.7.10][Website][Patreon] Info, Support and Suggestions

  • Quote

    BC Fuel isn't the only burnable thing you get out of the Towers, and as I said the Towers are more than self-sustaining regarding the Fuels they output. You will get much more Energy out of the whole thing than you expect.


    :( Ok. It's clear the decision has been made. But I still think you have your single-player/multi-player balance WAAAY off. My final piece on the issue:


    Assuming all of the burnable fuels are at least as good as BC fuel, that refinery I uploaded will produce 60% of the energy needed to charge the MFSU powering the centrifuge on your front page.
    If I were playing multiplayer, I could run it continuously, and a second and a third and everything else in my base for as long as I was online. :thumbup:
    Playing single player, I'll have to sit around saving fuel with my entire base idle for half of the time I'm playing. :thumbdown:


    Quote

    And don't forget that unless your Oil Tanker has Infinite Oil, you will run out of it quickly.


    As for running out of oil - just in the nearest oil field to me there is enough oil for about 1000 hours continuous processing. Playing single player, I probably won't exhaust that oil field this side of
    Christmas 2017.... and I already know of another similar oil field. 8)


    Quote

    That kind of timeskip is something I would never allow


    That kind of timeskip is something multiplayer players get already.
    That kind of timeskip is something I can get for zero gameplay effort by leaving my PC on while I sleep.


    Quote

    256 HU/t


    Great... no single 256 HU/t burning box, and no space between the pipes for 2 auto-ignition/extinguisher systems.
    (grumble... grumble... grumble...)


    RIIIIIGHT!!!... where did I put that uranium. Time to build a nuclear reactor. Stupid oil... X(

  • SMP players need chunkloads to keep there bases loaded as well when they are offline. everything should load right back up in SSP so the only thing your losing is the AFK period you would need to do in SSP, I dont really see the issue just make a private server to keep running, you can move the world between SSP and SMP.

  • :( Ok. It's clear the decision has been made. But I still think you have your single-player/multi-player balance WAAAY off. My final piece on the issue:


    Assuming all of the burnable fuels are at least as good as BC fuel, that refinery I uploaded will produce 60% of the energy needed to charge the MFSU powering the centrifuge on your front page.
    If I were playing multiplayer, I could run it continuously, and a second and a third and everything else in my base for as long as I was online. :thumbup:
    Playing single player, I'll have to sit around saving fuel with my entire base idle for half of the time I'm playing. :thumbdown:

    50L Oil get processed for 16384 HU into following Fuels:


    384HU/L * 50L Fuel
    320HU/L * 25L Diesel
    320HU/L * 25L Kerosine
    320HU/L * 25L Petrol
    384HU/L * 25L Butane
    384HU/L * 25L Propane


    What ends in 62400 HU - 16384 HU = 46016 HU per 50 Oil or 920.32 HU per L of Oil. That divided by 1.28 Ticks/L and you get 719 HU/t per Distillation Tower. 3 Towers then make 2157 HU/t, which afaik turn into a bit more than 1024 EU/t after all the conversions (assuming that the leftover Heat/Fuel will be used to distill Water for example).


    So where was your Problem getting those 512 EU/t?


    As for running out of oil - just in the nearest oil field to me there is enough oil for about 1000 hours continuous processing. Playing single player, I probably won't exhaust that oil field this side of
    Christmas 2017.... and I already know of another similar oil field. 8)

    That is a lot.

    That kind of timeskip is something multiplayer players get already.
    That kind of timeskip is something I can get for zero gameplay effort by leaving my PC on while I sleep.

    There are way too many problems with timeskips in general to allow it. You cant do Timeskips in environments where Machines without Timeskips are existing and being relied on. That is not technically feasible. So don't expect me to do near impossible Stuff, just because other Games can do it doesn't mean, that you can do that in a game as complex as Minecraft.

    Great... no single 256 HU/t burning box, and no space between the pipes for 2 auto-ignition/extinguisher systems.
    (grumble... grumble... grumble...)


    RIIIIIGHT!!!... where did I put that uranium. Time to build a nuclear reactor. Stupid oil... X(

    You need auto-ignition? I thought that thing is supposed to run non-stop with 4 Dense Invar Burning Boxes fueled by Propane and Butane (that stuff is otherwise only needed for Lighters so it's best to use those as Burning Box Fuel, since you will have slight leftovers anyways). "non-stop" is implying that you would never need to put out the flame ever again, so why would you ever need auto extinguishers and igniters?


    Worst case you need to make a larger Refinery if you want to process such huge amounts of Oil.

    I don't say, your "insert whatever" is bad. I'm only showing ways for making it better.
    GregTech Website
    Patreon really helps me out. If you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it fulltime, why not?
    GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.
    I'm also on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account just to contact me.
    (I'm there almost every day, when I'm at my own computer. Yes you can drop bugs and suggestions there too)


  • MFSU is 2048 EU/t, and those numbers are worse than the ones I had guessed...


    Quote

    There are way too many problems with timeskips in general to allow it. You cant do Timeskips in environments where Machines without Timeskips are existing and being relied on. That is not technically feasible. So don't expect me to do near impossible Stuff, just because other Games can do it doesn't mean, that you can do that in a game as complex as Minecraft.


    Actually, you don't need to touch anything outside the tower, provided you're prepared to short-change the player a little on output (just multiply each output by factor a little lower than 46016 / 62400).


    Quote

    You need auto-ignition? I thought that thing is supposed to run non-stop with 4 Dense Invar Burning Boxes fueled by Propane and Butane (that stuff is otherwise only needed for Lighters so it's best to use those as Burning Box Fuel, since you will have slight leftovers anyways). "non-stop" is implying that you would never need to put out the flame ever again, so why would you ever need auto extinguishers and igniters?


    Because it isn't finished until it's automated. Whether you need it or not is beside the point. Why do I build the corner squares of underground rooms even though you can't see them?
    Why do I build support columns in large halls, even though minecraft has no building physics? Why did I paint a helipad on my oil rig when a plain grey square would serve just as well?


    Quote

    SMP players need chunkloads to keep there bases loaded as well when they are offline. everything should load right back up in SSP so the only thing your losing is the AFK period you would need to do in SSP, I dont really see the issue just make a private server to keep running, you can move the world between SSP and SMP.


    A private server costs money, no?

  • MFSU is 2048 EU/t, and those numbers are worse than the ones I had guessed...

    Did you expect a small Refinery to be stronger than well built Nuclear Reactor?

    Actually, you don't need to touch anything outside the tower, provided you're prepared to short-change the player a little on output (just multiply each output by factor a little lower than 46016 / 62400).

    Then the whole thing won't consume Energy? That would be OP if you could run it for Free or an even lower price, because that is what you are implying.

    Because it isn't finished until it's automated. Whether you need it or not is beside the point. Why do I build the corner squares of underground rooms even though you can't see them?
    Why do I build support columns in large halls, even though minecraft has no building physics? Why did I paint a helipad on my oil rig when a plain grey square would serve just as well?

    Lol, its already automated when it runs anyways. :P

    I don't say, your "insert whatever" is bad. I'm only showing ways for making it better.
    GregTech Website
    Patreon really helps me out. If you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it fulltime, why not?
    GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.
    I'm also on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account just to contact me.
    (I'm there almost every day, when I'm at my own computer. Yes you can drop bugs and suggestions there too)

  • Quote

    Did you expect a small Refinery to be stronger than well built Nuclear Reactor?


    Actually, it's significantly more expensive than almost every nuclear reactor I've built.


    There's more than 60 stacks of refined metals (some semi-rare) in the refinery itself, which would be backed up with at least 9 tungsten burning boxes,
    9 tungstensteel boilers, 9 titanium/aluminium turbines, 9 dynamos, 9 battery boxes, 9 transformers, 9 LV battery boxes, 9 igniters, and about 60 odd
    ProjectRed logic gates.


    Thinking about it, it might even blow my old 6-reactor CASUC facility out of the water.


    Quote

    Then the whole thing won't consume Energy? That would be OP if you could run it for Free or an even lower price, because that is what you are implying.


    Of course it consumes energy - that's what the gap between 46016 and 62400 is. That's 16384 HU lost from the output. I don't get how this is OP? Especially as invar
    burning boxes have 100% efficiency. The numbers come out the same at the end, except the player doesn't get to choose which fuel burns.

  • You forget that it is IC2 Nuclear Reactors. GT Reactors would be even more expensive to build. I forgot to clarify that.


    Also 719 HU/t is pretty fucking much in GT, especially earlygame if you think about it. The Refinery has to be earlygame due to Plastic being the gateway to Circuitry.


    And again, I won't intentionally add inconsistent behaviour the the Game, like seemingly random speed ups that nobody expects, which depend on the System Clock, which in itself is physicly broken in more computers than you may think.


    And 60 Stacks of Metals for the Refinery itself?!? I thought I made pretty clear that its 3-4 Stainless Steel per Refinery Block, and that I made the Heat Acceptors a lot cheaper too.

    I don't say, your "insert whatever" is bad. I'm only showing ways for making it better.
    GregTech Website
    Patreon really helps me out. If you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it fulltime, why not?
    GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.
    I'm also on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account just to contact me.
    (I'm there almost every day, when I'm at my own computer. Yes you can drop bugs and suggestions there too)

  • Yes it was out since an hour or so, but I usually write the Patreon Post before posting on the Forum because of this: https://www.patreon.com/posts/7268148

    I don't say, your "insert whatever" is bad. I'm only showing ways for making it better.
    GregTech Website
    Patreon really helps me out. If you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it fulltime, why not?
    GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.
    I'm also on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account just to contact me.
    (I'm there almost every day, when I'm at my own computer. Yes you can drop bugs and suggestions there too)

  • Quote

    And again, I won't intentionally add inconsistent behaviour the the Game, like seemingly random speed ups that nobody expects, which depend on the System Clock, which in itself is physicly broken in more computers than you may think.


    Config option defaulted to off? Check elapsed time only on chunk load and clamp to a range between 0 and some sane maximum?
    Then save a number of ticks for which the increased speed would apply? Decrement counter each tick until zero then return to
    normal output. Minimal contact with system clock, no chance of accidental damage*, small chance of accidental productivity
    boost. But if a player is in control of the config they could always just use NEI to cheat anyway, so systematic abuse of an
    unreliable system clock would be pointless anyway.


    (* unless system clock is so broken that querying it causes it to catch fire...)


    But anyway, enough. You are the author, you get to say "I don't want to".


    Stop tempting me with "it won't work because of X", because that will make me want to say "yes, but you can do Y".


    Quote

    Also 719 HU/t is pretty fucking much in GT, especially earlygame


    Except this really didn't feel like an early game project...


    Quote

    And 60 Stacks of Metals for the Refinery itself?!? I thought I made pretty clear that its 3-4 Stainless Steel per Refinery Block, and that I made the Heat Acceptors a lot cheaper too.


    Yeah... more like 40 with the changes to heat acceptor recipe. I thought you only swapped tungsten for invar.


    And the piping was wildly expensive. Went with galvanised steel for aesthetic reasons (bronze would have looked really, really wrong).
    But there is so much of it. The space below ground level but above the tanks is nearly solid pipes.

  • Code
    1. ic2 {
    2. B:DisableAllCompressorRecipes=false
    3. B:DisableAllExtractorRecipes=false
    4. B:DisableAllMaceratorRecipes=false
    5. B:DisableAllOreWasherRecipes=false
    6. B:EnableAddingCompressorRecipes=true
    7. B:EnableAddingExtractorRecipes=true
    8. B:EnableAddingMaceratorRecipes=true
    9. B:EnableAddingOreWasherRecipes=true
    10. }


    First 4 are to disable recipes that those machines do use, the second 4 lines are for enabling machines themself? (their crafting recipe?) For now those machines do have GT recipe for them. For proper no--crash work, am I guessing right to make first four lines true, and second four lines false, so the mahcine cannot be crafted and accessed?

  • Well aside the energy used to run it, because unless you have an IRL solar panel or wind mill (kudos if you do), it's not free yet, albeit way less expensive than a commercial one of course

  • Sure you could do Y, but GT isn't a Mod about making few things to do large Jobs. You need to build Big if you want to do Big. And it is still much faster than the BC Refinery.

    Except this really didn't feel like an early game project...

    That might be because you are lategame already. ;)

    Yeah... more like 40 with the changes to heat acceptor recipe. I thought you only swapped tungsten for invar.

    It's about 5-6 Stacks of Metal, not 40.

    And the piping was wildly expensive. Went with galvanised steel for aesthetic reasons (bronze would have looked really, really wrong).
    But there is so much of it. The space below ground level but above the tanks is nearly solid pipes.

    Why not Sealed Wood Pipes? Those would have worked and are very cheap. But yeah I would have used some Metal Pipes aswell, because looks. Even though I would have used small Metal Pipes instead of Medium. Maybe even tiny.

    I don't say, your "insert whatever" is bad. I'm only showing ways for making it better.
    GregTech Website
    Patreon really helps me out. If you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it fulltime, why not?
    GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.
    I'm also on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account just to contact me.
    (I'm there almost every day, when I'm at my own computer. Yes you can drop bugs and suggestions there too)

  • If I read the Crucible Recipes correctly a Small Pile of Tantlite gives a Small Pile of Tantalum in the Crucible, but Tantalite Dust and Tantalite Block give a Tantalum Nugget and a Tantalite Ingot respectively (thus 1/9th of their Tantalum counterpart).


    Shouldn't a Small Pile of Tantalite give 1/9th of a Small Pile of Tantlum, so 1/9 * 1/4 = 1/36 = 2 1/72th units of Tantalum ?

  • Well, in spite of the disappointment at the balancing values, I am finding the sight of my towers running an absolutely awesome experience.
    This is by far my favourite update since GT6 began...


    Seriously, something like this is exactly what I have been longing for since my very first modded minecraft game on a BuildCraft extension
    of my first long-running vanilla save.


    There are (and other mods give good examples) so many cheaper, lazier ways you could have implemented oil->fuel processing, and it's just
    so GT that this is the route you chose to take.


    Quote

    Sure you could do Y, but GT isn't a Mod about making few things to do large Jobs. You need to build Big if you want to do Big.


    No.


    If multiplayer isn't against the spirit of GT then a single player game that plays at the same rate as multiplayer isn't either.

  • If I read the Crucible Recipes correctly a Small Pile of Tantlite gives a Small Pile of Tantalum in the Crucible, but Tantalite Dust and Tantalite Block give a Tantalum Nugget and a Tantalite Ingot respectively (thus 1/9th of their Tantalum counterpart).


    Shouldn't a Small Pile of Tantalite give 1/9th of a Small Pile of Tantlum, so 1/9 * 1/4 = 1/36 = 2 1/72th units of Tantalum ?

    uhhhm, are you sure you have read the values from the right places? And I dont know if the Math is right.

    No.


    If multiplayer isn't against the spirit of GT then a single player game that plays at the same rate as multiplayer isn't either.

    Can't you just up the Tickrate for a while? Is there a Mod for that? I know vanilla MC ups the Tickrate when the Server has Lagspikes. If anyone knows such a Tickrate Mod then please link it here.

    I don't say, your "insert whatever" is bad. I'm only showing ways for making it better.
    GregTech Website
    Patreon really helps me out. If you consider funding the development of GT, so I might be able to do it fulltime, why not?
    GregTech 6, the Main Thread, Bug Reports go here too.
    I'm also on #gt-dev on irc.esper.net, if you don't want to make a Forum account just to contact me.
    (I'm there almost every day, when I'm at my own computer. Yes you can drop bugs and suggestions there too)