# [Suggestion] Revamping the water mill

• What about remaking the water mill, so it both feels more like a real water mill and so it's a little more effective? Right now it's really weak, even for it's price - and it doesn't encourage building it into a water mill-like building nor a water power plant.

Right now, they're decently effective when getting water buckets inserted into them, encouraging builds like this (with tekkit): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2gijrRxKkw&feature=fvwrel
This isn't really the issue, I think that use is fine, it's the unmanned mechanics I don't really like.

They're very ineffective, but can work, when sunk completely into water, encouraging simply putting them in a lake - which doesn't feel like a water mill at all. If someone doesn't know, they work by counting all blocks of running water and water sources in a 3x3x3 square centered on the mill - meaning you want to have just the mill and a cable and the rest being water. It gives .01 EU per water block, maxing out at .25 EU with cable (or .26 if using a battery). Even with the two-for-one price of them that's really, really weak when they have to be spaced so far from each other.

Picture for reference below. Right now, the right side is a water mill in full effect (producing a total of 1 EU/t) while the left side is a very inefficient water mill (total of 0.44 EU/t).

So, current mechanic is:
1. Count all blocks in a 3x3x3 square.
2. For each of those that are running water or a water source, X is +1.
3. X * 0.01 = EU created.

I propose the following change:
1. Count all blocks in a 3x3x3 square.
2. For each of those that are running water (NO water source), X is +1.
3. The least of X * 0.03 or .3 = EU created.

Basically, this means only running water counts, and it only matters up to 10 blocks.

With that calculation, the left power plant works at full strength and give 1.2 EU/t, while the right one is pretty ineffective (actually non-functioning as the water is still, but could be made to work decently if you really want that look by removing the bottom layers of water sources).

What do people think? Is it something for the official mod, something for an addon, or something that's just up the walls crazy?

What do you people think?

• Official Post

So it just counts every Waterblock with a Metadatavalue of 1 or more (Making downwardsflowing/still Water ineffective), to ensure that you just use flowing water, and then triple the amount of EU from it.

This means that the most efficient one can use 18 Waterblocks max (9 flowing over it and 9 flowing under it), making a row of Tinwireconnected Watermills possible without losing efficiency.

Generally a good Idea.

• So it just counts every Waterblock with a Metadatavalue of 1 or more (Making downwardsflowing/still Water ineffective), to ensure that you just use flowing water, and then triple the amount of EU from it.

This means that the most efficient one can use 18 Waterblocks max (9 flowing over it and 9 flowing under it), making a row of Tinwireconnected Watermills possible without losing efficiency.

Generally a good Idea.

My idea included a maximum efficiency of 0.3 EU/t for each mill, so your top efficiency comes at 10 running waterblocks - providing some flexibility in building style. I think either that or diminishing returns should be applied - I generally like when it's not terrible to build with style in mind too, not only efficiency, and would like a little flexibility with only minor (or no) efficiency penalty. A single "correct way" is boring in my mind. Windmills allow for this since the difference between 100 and 110 height, or between no obstruction and 5 blocks of obstruction is fairly minor, but water mills pick from such a small area that any suboptimal build will be VERY underperforming compared to the optimal.

• I once suggested counting waterflow blocks plus one watersource block directly above watermill block. This calculation encourages building nice looking vertical waterfalls.
But there is a problem with your and mine variants: liquid flow blocks increase lag.

• Official Post

liquid flow blocks increase lag.

They only increase Soundlag if you are near them. Otherwise they wont Lag more than Sourceblocks.

• I've _personally_ never felt any relevant liquid lag, but you might be right it would affect those with older computers (or is it network lag that is caused by liquids?).

Is it a major increase in lag? Otherwise it could simply be a chosen setting if you want it or not - from what I've understood the coding of it would be simple, it's just that I don't know java (though I could learn) and that I can't seem to install JDK without my computer frakkin up.

• Official Post

I've _personally_ never felt any relevant liquid lag, but you might be right it would affect those with older computers (or is it network lag that is caused by liquids?).

Is it a major increase in lag? Otherwise it could simply be a chosen setting if you want it or not - from what I've understood the coding of it would be simple, it's just that I don't know java (though I could learn) and that I can't seem to install JDK without my computer frakkin up.

It causes only Soundlag nothing more. That means if Sound is OFF, you will get no Lag.

• I built my base way under ground, so I use multiple towers of watermills.
It works nicely, and it easy to build. You only need to place some water sorceblocks on top of a 5*5 shaft, and then place a cable down in the middle.
Then place the watermills around it on each side, leave a block over and under, and place more. You get maximum efficiency of 25 waterblocks around.

Looks like this:

Top-view:

...

...

A handfull of those towers, and you'll have a fully functional base, with luminators.

PS: Reactor is advised if you want to run a mass fabricator.

• It causes only Soundlag nothing more. That means if Sound is OFF, you will get no Lag.

Nope, i've seen tons of flowing blocks cause wicked lag on a server before when someone was doing the whole flooded quarry trick on a HUGE quarry. (place one source block when you start the quarry, it'll flood the whole area eventually)
Had to MCedit out the water as it was causing extreme lag to the point where all the clients were getting seconds per frame and not frames per second.

• Official Post

Nope, i've seen tons of flowing blocks cause wicked lag on a server before when someone was doing the whole flooded quarry trick on a HUGE quarry. (place one source block when you start the quarry, it'll flood the whole area eventually)
Had to MCedit out the water as it was causing extreme lag to the point where all the clients were getting seconds per frame and not frames per second.

Really? i had once a 64x64-Quarry running on a Server, with the same Watersource-In-Corner-Trick, and i got absolutely no Lag (and that was with my old and slow Computer). Thats, why i thought that it doesnt cause Lag.

• This sounds like a decent idea, though the watermill is meant to be a very simple to use device and this new system for determining the eu produced could make it harder to make high efficiency watermills, not to mention it would nullify almost every watermill setup as they all use still blocks. Still blocks should produce some eu, maybe 1/2 the current amount so unconverted setups could still function but there will be good reason to update.

• *gasp!* I love it! +1!

As long as it rates the height from which the source block is from the flowing water for EU output, then I'm game for this! (It'll also justify the large 'walls' I have to build for my hydrology...)

Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!

Quote

this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into

Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

• Official Post

If this ever turns into reality, i will have fun doing Water mills engineering.

• Fair enough, but make old setups still work, if less efficient.

1. OMG CREEPER RUN AWAY!
2. Go away, you creeper wierdo!
3. What ever, I'll just go around.
4. Hup, over their heads I go!
5. Okay Mister living grenade, I'm going to knock you into those skeletons, and I'll follow through with a nano saber. Understood? FOR THE ALMIGHTLY DRAGON LORD!

• Then if I want a tidal generator?

• This suggestion sounds cool, we need a revamp on the water mills +1

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up,
as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

• Then if I want a tidal generator?

Well that would be hard, wouldn't it, seeing as how there's no tide in Minecraft? xD

• +1. I always had wanted more efficient WM as infinite source of energy (without using RP2, and the method with retriever is OP) and I would like if it make us build in new ways just for getting efficient WM.

Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ?
NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!