Suggestion: Generators have biome dependencies

  • In advance, sorry if I didn't find this topic already! I used the search function to no success.


    Rationale: The ongoing discussion about different "green" generators being overpowered still stands at a point where solar energy is basically still hated by hardcore players, mainly for its "zero need for maintenance" policy, while other generators are not worthwhile for the beginner.


    Idea: Make generatos biome-dependent. Alternatively, re-formulate the biome criteria into fine-granular, block-based ones. This post will try to stick to a "good-neutral-bad" biome policy and to suggest block-based alternatives.


    Examples:


    Solar panels tend to be very inefficient when it's hot. Therefore, how about a 50% malus in desert biomes, making them not viable for use there. If desired, a 25% bonus in snow biomes can apply. A block-based criterion could include proximity to lava, working machines, each other or world height, although I personally would like to discourage making solar panels more efficient at higher levels because that would put it in direct competition to wind mills.
    (Solar: -50% desert, +25% snow, proximity to hot blocks)


    Wind mills already have a block-based world height criterion in place, but the more topographical differences a terrain has, the stronger winds become there. Therefore, plains biomes would almost be still, making wind mills work at only 50% of their efficiency. Placed in an extreme hills biome, though, they may yield an extra 50% power. Be warned: This also means they break more easily in extreme hill biomes. Although no additional block-based criteria are really needed, cave winds will only rarely be as strong as winds on the surface. Sunlight is detectable I think, so one criterion could be to check whether the wind mill can be sunlit. This could cause problems with glass-encased wind mills, however.
    (Wind: -50% plains, +50% extreme hills, no additional suggestions)


    Water mills operate finer and thus, a biome criterion seems strange, but to encourage offshore plants and facilitate early game play, ocean and river biomes could give a 50% and 25% bonus, respectively. However, due to high evaporation, water mills are nearly useless in desert biomes. Also, the high amount of organic matter in swamp water makes it difficult for the blades to rotate, so that these two biomes suffer a -50% penalty each. Block-based criteria include whether the water is flowing (this was suggested before), whether it's organic water, whether the surrounding water is surrounded by water, solid blocks or grainy blocks that let water through easily (such as sand or gravel). An additional idea would be the "gulf stream scenario": in ocean biomes, if a water mill is submerged deeply enough, it catches a constant underwater stream that gives it an additional bonus, encouraging deep-sea energy stations that are difficult to build and use, yet cheap to procure. None of this applies to manned mills.
    (Water:-50% desert, -50% swamp, +50% ocean, +25% river, depth of submerging, water flow)


    Finally, geothermal generators are very strong as of now, but why not consider making them 50% more powerful when in the Nether? You will either have to move your base to the Nether or to transport the energy by hand. Generators will not work when no player is in the Nether, so it's not a big buff to me. In turn, snow biomes could have the opposite effect. Block-based criteria include proximity to lava, similarly to water mills.
    (Geothermal: +50% Nether, -50% snow, proximity to lava)


    While regular generator keep their universality, I feel nuclear reactors are still less practical than solar panels. That is a good thing, though: Safe nuclear reactors aren't what you're supposed to do, are they? :D Also, I can't think of a biome-based criterion.


    Summary: Generators have biome-dependent efficiency. Choosing a place to settle down influences choice of generators and vice versa. There is a "best choice" for almost every place. If biome basedness is bad, block proximities and height can influence efficiency as well, or in addition. In addition, the "neutral" value can be lower than the generators' current efficiencies (config file!).


    All percentages, constants, literals and criteria are examples. If 50% is too little, make it 80%. Thanks for reading!

  • Dont forget to give Wind a Bonus in Ocean. And to add Code to prevent Solars with Snow on it to produce Energy.


    That is a marvelous idea! That way, you get a bonus but have to check for snow every now and then!

  • Idea is very interesting, but you get the facts wrong.


    Green generators are not overpowered. Nuclear is where Eu's is.


    Plains are not bad for wind.
    "The best places for wind farms are in coastal areas, at the tops of rounded hills, open plains and gaps in mountains - places where the wind is strong and reliable. Some are offshore."
    http://www.darvill.clara.net/altenerg/wind.htm


    So, hills and plains should have bonus, and extreme mountains, if any, should have penalties for heights above certain value (80-ish).


    And solar batteries works better where sun is. Biggest solar station is in Mojave desert. So, deserts should have huge bonus. They can have bigger chance to break there, as well. And snow = nearly no sun = solars are pointless.

  • Thanks! I personally find that, by the time you have nuclear power, you don't need much more power or can afford bigger green plants.
    As for wind mills, yeah, I guess you can argue about my specific examples a lot, but I find that plains and extreme hills are relevant opposites. Which one's good and which one's bad is, of course, up to discussion. I haven't looked into the realistic aspect here, to be honest.


    I mainly think decisions should be made with gameplay in mind: A biome where everything works would make the idea pointless. If offshore windmills are good, then doing everything offshore will be the main way, thus not leaving the player with real freedom to decide where to settle down. I figured if people want to live in large heights, they'd usually go for wind power as their height is already large to begin with. It'd be a "themed decision", so to speak.


    I think that, as long as the player doesn't feel it's less fun due to lack of realism, it's fine. We should just be careful not to give out too many bonuses.


    Solar panels work with sun, but they tend to overheat. I don't know what technology is used in the Mojave desert, but roof-mounted home solar panels... I've heard in the radio that lots of people here in Germany complained about them functioning at 30% of their assumed power when summer was really hot. They'd overheat and produce less power, which is, if you think about it, a big weakness. I don't know what Steve builds, but I don't suppose it's heat-resistant high-tech.


    I liked Greg's idea very much. If solar panels get covered in snow every now and then, it's okay for them to have a bigger power output since they lose their "set and forget" attribute.


    It'd be an additional challenge if the biomes where rubber trees spawn were not suitable for any generator (except maybe the regular generator because they contain much wood)

    • Official Post

    Thanks! I personally find that, by the time you have nuclear power, you don't need much more power or can afford bigger green plants.
    As for wind mills, yeah, I guess you can argue about my specific examples a lot, but I find that plains and extreme hills are relevant opposites. Which one's good and which one's bad is, of course, up to discussion. I haven't looked into the realistic aspect here, to be honest.

    In Minecraft, Plains and Extreme Hills are nearly the same. Of course Mountains only spawn in Extreme Hills, but mostly it consists out of Plainslike Landscape (at least, if the Biomegeneration of 1.3.1 is set to large Biomes)

    Solar panels work with sun, but they tend to overheat. I don't know what technology is used in the Mojave desert, but roof-mounted home solar panels... I've heard in the radio that lots of people here in Germany complained about them functioning at 30% of their assumed power when summer was really hot. They'd overheat and produce less power, which is, if you think about it, a big weakness. I don't know what Steve builds, but I don't suppose it's heat-resistant high-tech.

    These Solarcomplexes in Deserts are based upon Mirrors and heated Water. Photovoltaic (like Solarpanels in IC²) has a strong weakness against Heat, it even causes them to incinerate and burning down your House.

    It'd be an additional challenge if the biomes where rubber trees spawn were not suitable for any generator (except maybe the regular generator because they contain much wood)

    Rubbertrees are spawning in any kind of Forest, but you can still plant them anywhere. And the regular Generator is not really a green Generator (yes i know you can burn regenerative Stuff inside them)

  • Why would solar panals work less in desert biomes? Shouldn't they work... better?


    They already work better, you never have problems with rain :O
    If anything gets implemented like this i'd see more logic in plains giving bonus to wind. (No obstructions), but that is biased too by the fact that hills would naturally be higher...
    Both features, obstruction and height bonuses are already implemented.

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    It was forever ago that I looked into it, but if I remember right, solars were/are bugged so that they still don't work in rain. There was some thread that actually proved it, maybe I could find that again....


    Nope, I think it got deleted, but I think it still is bugged. The isDaytime() function is based on skylight values, which are directly affected by rain/thunder. According to that old thread, the light values were low enough during rain/thunder to shut solars off. Anyone actually looked at a desert based solar during a rainstorm? I wouldn't be surprised if the sun indicator is blank...

    Lesson 1: Watch over your crops....

  • I think this idea would be a great change to ic2, but i doubt that a change this big would be made to all these generators.

    Ephesians 4:29
    Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up,
    as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.


  • It was forever ago that I looked into it, but if I remember right, solars were/are bugged so that they still don't work in rain. There was some thread that actually proved it, maybe I could find that again....


    Nope, I think it got deleted, but I think it still is bugged. The isDaytime() function is based on skylight values, which are directly affected by rain/thunder. According to that old thread, the light values were low enough during rain/thunder to shut solars off. Anyone actually looked at a desert based solar during a rainstorm? I wouldn't be surprised if the sun indicator is blank...


    I was under the impression this was intentional, and last I checked, solars work in deserts even when it's raining.

    • Official Post

    I was under the impression this was intentional, and last I checked, solars work in deserts even when it's raining.


    They're supposed to work in deserts when its raining, but I think/thought it was bugged. Like I said, I haven't tested it lately, but if someone does test it, make sure to test it right when a storm happens, and not later in the storm, I think the values change for that function the longer the storm has gone. That said, it could be working properly, but I agree with RichardG, it gets dark enough it doesn't make much sense...

    Lesson 1: Watch over your crops....

  • Just my input: Solar panels still work with snow (Had a run-away terraformer, and the HV solar supplying it had snow on it.)
    My suggestion regarding solar panels in the desert is to require coolant to be placed inside (which is how solar panels are typically cooled, regardless of location) or have water pumped to them via Buildcraft pumps.
    Include a coolant cell somewhere in the manufacturing process?

  • Solar panels tend to be very inefficient when it's hot. Therefore, how about a 50% malus in desert biomes, making them not viable for use there. If desired, a 25% bonus in snow biomes can apply. A block-based criterion could include proximity to lava, working machines, each other or world height, although I personally would like to discourage making solar panels more efficient at higher levels because that would put it in direct competition to wind mills.
    (Solar: -50% desert, +25% snow, proximity to hot blocks)


    So you are saying a solar panel produces more on the northpole than in a desert?