ForestryEvery Mod is fine by itself, except that it can get OP if you use it in conjunction of other mods like IC² + BC + RP + PC (PowerConverters or any other IC/BC energy mod)...
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That's probably right, but Forestry more than others in my opinion (if playe with Crossover mod/Transformer addon, so you're right, it's not forestry by himself).
And you'd probably have understood it, I dislike Forestry. -
Depends on what you consider "OP". If it's "makes manual digging obsolete eventually", then most mods, involving some kind of automation, are OP by themselves. EE, BC3, RP2, ComputerCraft, even Thaumcraft2.
But yes, Forestry probably makes this "eventually" a little too close and a little too easy. -
Depends on what you consider "OP". If it's "makes manual digging obsolete eventually", then most mods, involving some kind of automation, are OP by themselves. EE, BC3, RP2, ComputerCraft, even Thaumcraft2.
But yes, Forestry probably makes this "eventually" a little too close and a little too easy.OP is a hard thing to define in gamming. Just looking at Minecraft, people think EE2 as a whole is OP, then there is the people who think that IC2 is OP as a whole, people i know think BC pipes are OP, I even know somone who thinks a Diamond Pickaxe is OP. in my opinion if people keep trying to implement balance so that everyone can think it's not OP, it could wreck the industry. the only thing you can do is keep you own opinion and if your a programer, make configuable items (like what Pahimar is doing for EE3) so that people can configure their item so that they are ballence in their opinion. Even if it means that Diamond Picks will break as soon as you a you touch stone (im looking at you who shall remain nameless
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This kinda reminds me of Guild Wars back then... "OMG LOOK WHAT SUPER EQUIPMENT I FOUND!!!!!!" refers to "Hyper-Super-Unique Axe of Extreme Undeath (Extra Hyper-rare): 2% chance to leech 1% life (not more than 5) on a hit during full moon in the first half of the chinese year unless wearing green armor or blue wyvern helmets", as if they were afraid to even give the player equipment that did anything.
I don't even know why "balancing" is so important in Minecraft. If it's fun, it's okay!
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This kinda reminds me of Guild Wars back then... "OMG LOOK WHAT SUPER EQUIPMENT I FOUND!!!!!!" refers to "Hyper-Super-Unique Axe of Extreme Undeath (Extra Hyper-rare): 2% chance to leech 1% life (not more than 5) on a hit during full moon in the first half of the chinese year unless wearing green armor or blue wyvern helmets", as if they were afraid to even give the player equipment that did anything.
I don't even know why "balancing" is so important in Minecraft. If it's fun, it's okay!
I completely agree
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Balancing == FUN
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Balancing == FUN
Balancing
FUN -
Balancing FUN This 2 sentence do not proves anything ...
For my part, I think non being balanced killed fun, simply because it make useless certain aspect of the game, or make you reach too quiqcly endgame (the dream would be no real endgame, but in fact, it still exists, but some way of playing, like PvP can help to make it last longer) -
How come every discussion about balance derails into an "Anarchy Vs. Hard Game" debate...
In competitive play, balancing is needed so that the best player wins: Skill is what you want to measure, and unless you utilize symmetric rules (like in chess, for example), you need to balance different aspects of the game so that no choice of elements gives you an advantage over the other players' skill.
Sandboxes are different, especially survival mode. There are a lot of opinions on this matter, including "If you're not playing survival for die-hard PvP battles, go play creative, you wuss!" If I may state mine: While creative is there to make it easy for you to build things, survival primarily is what you make of it. I personally play it for an additional sense of accomplishment: How did I go about even building my structures? Without free flight, I have to think about scaffolding. On an SMP server, I have to think about how to distribute resources among my friends. And if I build something out of iron blocks, I must have amassed a lot of fortune beforehand. Having had to make all the materials first gives me, personally, a sense of "built this with my own hands".
That's for me. Others think differently. What I'm not getting is this: Why do groups of people tell other groups what survival mode is "supposed to be"? I don't really think it's any different from life - you have to give it a sense for yourself.
Balancing, in survival mode, is everything that distinguishes it from Creative, I'd say. It makes for that sense of accomplishment I described above, but that doesn't mean competitive balancing is necessary for everyone. For example: 64 coal will make a diamond, yes? I think that's fine. It gives coal a use, it gives charcoal a use, and it costs enough to make me consider if I even should make diamonds that way. It will also help me in the case of not finding diamonds for a long time.
Now it's basically IC2's community's publically agreed-on opinion that enchantments are not meant to be used with IC2 equipment. Some people even go as far as to call anything magic-related in Minecraft bollocks. A good example is Fortune. With Fortune, I get more coal. The cost to synthesize diamonds is lowered considerably. Is this "cheating"?
I won't judge whether something like that can even be said, but I'm going to say one thing: Just because IC2 developers think it's cheating doesn't invalidate me having fun. If I think I earned my diamond drill with Fortune III, even though I used Better Enchantmens in the process, what's anyone's opinion to me? Minecraft is a game, games' ultimate sense is fun. Also, why should I care if someone else thinks trading dirt for diamond blocks in a 1:1 ratio is fun? It'd feel un-earned to me, but if they like it, that's fine!
Minecraft leaves you with so many different approaches and situations that balancing per se isn't easy. But the motivation to spend a lot of time and resources must come from the inside! I won't build a huge wheat farm because my modded wheat-bio-diamond needs 4096 wheat for balancing reasons. I will build anything that's huge to lean back and look at my creation.
I've learnt a lot of things about myself, the world and people through Minecraft, but I had fun doing so. I surely wasn't farming stuff because I had to.
With that being said, let me briefly tackle another topic: Automation. IC2 does not provide means of automation, and that's fine. However, I feel that quite a part of IC2's community is a strong opponent of automation and wants IC2 to be deliberately incompatible with it, but I might be wrong with that impression. I wouldn't know why this should be done. Minecraft is full of stuff I don't use, so why cut it out for others?
tl;dr: There are more levels than "anarchic zero balance" and "cobblestone is OP".
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Now it's basically IC2's community's publically agreed-on opinion that enchantments are not meant to be used with IC2 equipment. Some people even go as far as to call anything magic-related in Minecraft bollocks. A good example is Fortune. With Fortune, I get more coal. The cost to synthesize diamonds is lowered considerably. Is this "cheating"?
Sandboxes are different, especially survival mode. There are a lot of opinions on this matter, including "If you're not playing survival for die-hard PvP battles, go play creative, you wuss!" If I may state mine: While creative is there to make it easy for you to build things, survival primarily is what you make of it. I personally play it for an additional sense of accomplishment: How did I go about even building my structures? Without free flight, I have to think about scaffolding. On an SMP server, I have to think about how to distribute resources among my friends. And if I build something out of iron blocks, I must have amassed a lot of fortune beforehand. Having had to make all the materials first gives me, personally, a sense of "built this with my own hands".
Yes, that's true, but people using IC² are generally using it not to build as in Vanilla Minecraft, but for improving the "economic/mine-be-rich" part of MC. Because obviously machines, energy and Industrial Tools are as many levels reached: get your first macerator, get a batbox, get a diamond drill, improve your batbox into a MFE, get the Quantum-Suit etc ... So I do agree with what you said for MC, but playing IC is still different. You don't play IC² because it adds more Industrial-looking block to build ...
With that being said, let me briefly tackle another topic: Automation. IC2 does not provide means of automation, and that's fine. However, I feel that quite a part of IC2's community is a strong opponent of automation and wants IC2 to be deliberately incompatible with it, but I might be wrong with that impression. I wouldn't know why this should be done. Minecraft is full of stuff I don't use, so why cut it out for others?
Actually, the part of the community fighting against automation is not the vast majority of IC² Forum community ... But those having the larger postcount seem(ED) [ED because I'm speaking at first about FenixR, who could react violently/in a way that would make me wish delete my post, but recently, he was looking like not being for automation] to be against, and because of it postcount (= activity on the forum), their opinion appear more than the others.And for the reason I mentionned before, players using IC aren't fan of Endgame generally, because they play IC the delay this Endgame. And Automation can be seen as an Endgame (when you stop, stop crafting Items by yourself etc ...) as it provide us means not to continue playing (and getting the same things). So when we (yes, I'm in the part disliking automation) criticize Automation, and try to convince/just flame people, that's because we're defending this way of playing MC: the more IC² will look like EE, the less I will like it [I'm not criticizing MassFabricator by saying that].So, we don't want "IC² beeing not compatible with automation", I just would like automation don't kill the game after 50 hours playing.
In competitive play, balancing is needed so that the best player wins: Skill is what you want to measure, and unless you utilize symmetric rules (like in chess, for example), you need to balance different aspects of the game so that no choice of elements gives you an advantage over the other players' skill.
And PvP Servers and even RP servers are competitive (because on RP server, exchange are making that the more skilled player is advantaged, you have to create for it "symetric rules", just to making exchange possible [and useful]). And because most of servers are PvP/RP based, the game has to be balanced.
That's for me. Others think differently. What I'm not getting is this: Why do groups of people tell other groups what survival mode is "supposed to be"? I don't really think it's any different from life - you have to give it a sense for yourself.
Yes, and if the sens you give it isn't "working" properly with IC², try to use the config/another mod. So IC² has to be made for the majority of people wish (and Alblaka count as billions of person, about 3.6/3.8[I don't know how many human are living now on Earth ^^), what provide him the absolute majority ^^).
Now it's basically IC2's community's publically agreed-on opinion that enchantments are not meant to be used with IC2 equipment. Some people even go as far as to call anything magic-related in Minecraft bollocks. A good example is Fortune. With Fortune, I get more coal. The cost to synthesize diamonds is lowered considerably. Is this "cheating"?
No, because you've spend your time fighting mob, you took risk for it etc ... BUT, the fact is IC² tools are unbreakable ... so it would be OP enchanting it, and would also kill the Vanilla Enchants system, because you would only need it for one diamond drill.
I won't judge whether something like that can even be said, but I'm going to say one thing: Just because IC2 developers think it's cheating doesn't invalidate me having fun. If I think I earned my diamond drill with Fortune III, even though I used Better Enchantmens in the process, what's anyone's opinion to me? Minecraft is a game, games' ultimate sense is fun. Also, why should I care if someone else thinks trading dirt for diamond blocks in a 1:1 ratio is fun? It'd feel un-earned to me, but if they like it, that's fine!
Yes, but as I already said it, IC² isn't made for each person, it's made for people liking the way it works ... so if Alblaka want to change it completly, he'll be right, and won't have to justify himself, because he is the modder. The only thing that will change is the type of person using his mod.
I hope I've been clear even if I'm
French(this is generally a other word for "unable to speak anything else than his own language")a bit tired tonight, because of school --' -
I don't use forestry, and i don't want to have Advanced aloy cheaper and breaking the balance of IC itself due to another mod. is there a problem ignoring 'ineficient' recipe?
