[Addon 1.112] Petroleum Generator 1.2.1 - burn baby burn.. for EU!

  • Personally im ok with the current reciepe, but if you have to change it, Prop#1 sounds good to me.


    I agree geo is cheap for what people use it for. When i first start out i go find a pit of lava, fill cells and shove into a geo. As it stands, even with just forestry, BC and IC2 one can still get lava shipped from the nether, althought it costs a bit more


    (pump + bottler + wax capsules + ender chest). For that to work, you'd need to farm up bees, which is quite time consuming, and the lava you get from the bees and capsules is rather slow. Also, the whole thermal expansion / Quarry thing is why i removed thermal expansion from my client. I realise i could just disable the crucible, but meh.


    Off topic: But i just found a oil pocket with a diameter of 30. Im expecting 14,000 buckets from this!

  • EMC valuation right now is just up in the air, though, as there's no current EE to check it against. Looking at the proposals, though, I think #1 makes perfect sense, but consider adding a cell to it (or two, or three) so that it's not a 2x1 recipe -- it seems odd somehow to be able to make a generator in the inventory crafting station. Cells are nice and cheap, even in EMC, and they make sense compared to other IC2 generators.

  • The EU/t makes sense where it is, although I think the recipe might need to be made cheaper. The other issue is that the current recipe is a little complicated with each component being crafted components. My personal opinion is that the Geothermal generator is too cheap when paired with build craft lava farms and thermal expansion nether quarries (although balancing across mods is a totally futile effort!).

    Yes, Thermal Expansion seems fine to me at first, but when I looked closer ... but even without it, it's easy to get infinite Lava from the Nether. The good point, is that without mods that makes you able to pump it WHILE living in the Overworld, it's not a problem to me (Living in the Nether is quite annoying, especially since you can't longer place Water in the Nether using Ice) --> That's why I didn't and won't install mods such as Mystcraft, and why I'm not sure of installing RC (World Anchor + yes I know Quarries already does that, but as I won't say it to anyone on server I'm playing and as I won't use it in this way ... ^^)


    30EU/t would be fine, as it's only 50% more, for a Fuel that is MUCH harder to get (with basic config, it's as if Refined Oil was equal to 5 Lava Sources, but you've to refine it before ... at least, don't you think pumping an Oil Deposite, even without any refinements, should give more EU/t than pumping a lava lake, wich is easier (because lava lakes are easier to find, can be found underground = while being hidden [for PvP]) ... and, as for Refined Oils, it's not the energy it consume while refining, even not the fact you need 4 diamonds to get the refinery but ... it takes so much TIME! If you count the amount of Petroleum Generator that can be feeded by 1 Refinery (assuming you're using Oil to power it, what reduces energy gains), and think of how many Geogens you can power with the same amount of materials ... think, since it seems you use(d)/like(d) EE (wich is, in my opinion, an OP mod) compare with EMC ...
    At least, you can say Geogen are too cheap, but hey, it's IC² Vanilla!
    Add the fact some people (me ^^) aren't using Forestry because considering it's OP (it breaks the balance because makes Solar Pannels/Windmills useless when you can get infinite Wooden-Scaffold to feed your generators, or to make biomass ...)


    Edit: You'd better not use EE :/


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

  • Mat, you can place Water in the Nether using IC². Two pieces of UUM = Water Source. And if you need Tank-Water, then I guess you can still make Railcrafts Watertanks in the Nether (not tested), or use the Aqueous Accumulator of Thermal Expansion.


    Btw. With GregTech, you are able to produce many needed Resources in the Nether, if you are at advanced Tier 02. saltpeter, Sulfur, Coal, Tin, Copper, Gold, Iron, Redstone (mainly from centrifuging Glowstone), Glowstone, Tungsten and many other things are ready to be harvested. So the Nether is a good living place.

  • I also find EE's EMC system the best at comparing material value but I see the iron/gold ratio the other way around...EMC-wise gold is worth only 8 iron while WorldGen-wise gold is 11.xx times rarer than iron and you have to dig deeper for it so i would make gold worth 12 iron.
    I think your first proposal is better.
    On the subject of considering forestry when balancing yourself:
    Forestry is so fucked up:
    electrical engine outputs 2MJ/t for 6EU/t so it uses a 3/1 eu/mj ratio (from 2.5/1 to 3.77/1 if you consider upgrades) while at the same time one bucket of forestry's biomass wich is worth 50000 MJ in forestry's biogass-engine is only worth a mere 8000 EU in forestry's biogenerator...so that's using a 0.16/1 conversion ratio...that's just wrong.

    mcmz4e aka MaryuZ aka 2.muCh.Pride

  • Another way to look at uranium's power output is to consider that the maximum efficiency of a reactor is 7, and that you can get 8 uranium cells out of a single ingot if you have a breeder available (and it's not unreasonable to have one, if you're serious about nuclear). Thus, the maximum theoretical amount of power a single uranium ore can give you is 56,000,000 EU. I think 100kEU is about right for fuel. You could configure it, of course, if you really wanted to.


    Not quite...eff 7 is a lie...the max eff is the same as before: 4 because reflectors and dual/quad-cells cost copper and tin...they actually decrease eff.
    the best i can make that can actually run a full cycle is eff 3.85

    mcmz4e aka MaryuZ aka 2.muCh.Pride

  • Eff 7 is a lie...the max eff is the same as before: 4 because reflectors and dual/quad-cells cost copper and tin...they actually decrease eff.
    the best i can make that can actually run a full cycle is eff 3.85

    Reactor efficiency ONLY counts uranium in vs. power out. Copper and tin costs and, in fact, any other costs, are irrelevant. If you put a quad cell into a reactor and surround it with reflectors on all four sides, you get 28,000,000 = 7 * 4 * 1,000,000 EU out of it, compared to 4 pieces of uranium that went in. Ergo, efficiency 7.


    You also get a reactor that's ready to explode in about 19 seconds, because I didn't say anything about cooling, did I?

  • Mat, you can place Water in the Nether using IC². Two pieces of UUM = Water Source. And if you need Tank-Water, then I guess you can still make Railcrafts Watertanks in the Nether (not tested), or use the Aqueous Accumulator of Thermal Expansion.

    I know, but as I'm planning to make a Base in the Nether before even getting a Massfab ... ^^

    Btw. With GregTech, you are able to produce many needed Resources in the Nether, if you are at advanced Tier 02. saltpeter, Sulfur, Coal, Tin, Copper, Gold, Iron, Redstone (mainly from centrifuging Glowstone), Glowstone, Tungsten and many other things are ready to be harvested. So the Nether is a good living place.

    I also know that (you thought I didn't learn by hearth what you've written on the forum about recipes ? Those I don't know are only viewable IG ^^ --> I cannot wait playing MC again :s


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

  • Edit: You'd better not use EE :/

    Lol, I knew mentioning EMC would be contentious ;) Everybody can sleep easily tonight with the knowledge that I never use EE. Whilst I don't use it, it is the only mod I know of that has made a decent attempt at item valuation hence why I used it. Not perfect but the best we have.


    Personally im ok with the current reciepe, but if you have to change it, Prop#1 sounds good to me.

    I've decided to go with Prop#1 + 2 water cells to make it a 3x3'er - basically the current recipe sans electronic circuit, which didn't sit 100% with me anyway.

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    Suggestion-Complaining: I think Oil and Refined Oil should worth more EU and give more EU/t. Why ? Because it's currently a bit UP compared to Lava ... I would suggest 30 000 EU/Oil Bucket and 200 000 EU / Refined Oil Bucket.


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    To think of it, oil is rather rare (not counting deserts lol), you have to run QUITE some time to find it, than to transfer it to your base - it usually IS expensive (with tons of RC rails and such)


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    electrical engine outputs 2MJ/t for 6EU/t so it uses a 3/1 eu/mj ratio (from 2.5/1 to 3.77/1 if you consider upgrades) while at the same time one bucket of forestry's biomass wich is worth 50000 MJ in forestry's biogass-engine is only worth a mere 8000 EU in forestry's biogenerator...so that's using a 0.16/1 conversion ratio...that's just wrong.


    These three posts have made me think a little about the current default output values. Specifically, the following three points:


    • Oil is non-renewable. The nerfing of Biofuel output makes sense considering dealing with a renewable (albeit with some maintenance required) resource.
    • Oil is inconvenient. Unlike Biofuel, which you can produce exactly where you are.
    • Lava is everywhere. GG, hell.


    To this end, I'm considering taking @MatLaPatate's suggestion and buffing the default values to 30k EU/oil and 200k EU/fuel. I'd like to hear peoples thoughts and/or protests.


    NOTE: This still has quite a different ratio from EU -> MJ compared to MJ -> EU (looking at forestry). I believe this is correct as the two systems scale differently, with BC scaling much more aggressively at high tiers compared to IC2 which is why I feel BC -> IC2 conversion should suffer diminishing returns at higher tiers.


    DOUBLE NOTE: I'm also considering making an IC2 oil refinery as my next project, which would allow oil/fuel to be kept entirely in the IC2 processing space. If this happens, the oil value will likely reduce back down to 20k or 10k due to reduced cross-mod infrastructure needed.

  • Lol, I knew mentioning EMC would be contentious ;) Everybody can sleep easily tonight with the knowledge that I never use EE. Whilst I don't use it, it is the only mod I know of that has made a decent attempt at item valuation hence why I used it. Not perfect but the best we have.


    As long as Pahimar can keep EE3 well-balanced, I see no reason to not use it other than tree-farming resource exploits. Course, for me, getting to diamonds takes 4 stacks of wood regardless (not including intermittent resource/energy costs), so it's not like it changes gameplay that harshly beyond making materials more interchangeable...


    (Which can be argued that that alone is a game changing mechanic, but most people arguing against that prefer 'sufferage' games where it's fun to 'struggle' for resources...)

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


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    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

  • As long as Pahimar can keep EE3 well-balanced, I see no reason to not use it other than tree-farming resource exploits. Course, for me, getting to diamonds takes 4 stacks of wood regardless (not including intermittent resource/energy costs), so it's not like it changes gameplay that harshly beyond making materials more interchangeable...


    (Which can be argued that that alone is a game changing mechanic, but most people arguing against that prefer 'sufferage' games where it's fun to 'struggle' for resources...)

    I should say I'm not an EE hater or anything, I just don't like the alchemy theme of it ;) Having a cobblestone generator (or tree farm) able to create diamonds did seem a bit 'off' to me. Having said that, I made a steves carts perpetual tree farm and was happy to use that and the thaumcraft duplicator in tandem, which is basically the same thing - although it required a couple of cool contraptions which seemed to justify it for me.


    I guess it's a matter of reaching the right difficulty/convenience level for the individual, which will naturally vary from person to person.

  • 200k is closer to some good values, upping to 300k would make some sense at least.I think, you can add some major rebalancing tweaks yourself. I dunno if you can add config for IC2 geothermal, TE magmatic eng, etc - but it would be quite cool. if lava would have a value of 10k in geo, it wouldnt be so OP.

  • I have always been thinking of a mod like this. I am a big fan of fossil fuel power and this is great. This has really helped because i hate the combustion engine (it can explode) and i hate having to use a combustion engine with some special generators ( like the engine generator or pneumatic generator).

  • To this end, I'm considering taking @MatLaPatate's suggestion and buffing the default values to 30k EU/oil and 200k EU/fuel. I'd like to hear peoples thoughts and/or protests

    DOUBLE NOTE: I'm also considering making an IC2 oil refinery as my next project, which would allow oil/fuel to be kept entirely in the IC2 processing space. If this happens, the oil value will likely reduce back down to 20k or 10k due to reduced cross-mod infrastructure needed.

    You've got my support forever :D


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

  • Thanks for all the discussion guys. After those discussions and a bit of play-testing, v0.10 is out, with the following changes:

    • Fuel power boost! - Fuel/oil now give 200k and 30k EU, respectively. Previous values were over-nerfed considering they are non-renewable resources, making them unattractive compared to sources such as lava and biofuel.
    • Simpler recipe! - removed the circuit to bring the cost in line with other generators of similar power.
    • Redstone compatible! - giving the generator a redstone signal will stop EU emission (makes the generator IC2-y)

  • Great work, this mod really makes use of BC oil.
    Just a small suggestion, it would be nice to have multiple tiers of petrol generators to keep it useful even in the end-game (or perhaps add a config to customize the output eu/t and packet size?).
    (sorry for my english)

  • Just a small suggestion, it would be nice to have multiple tiers of petrol generators to keep it useful even in the end-game (or perhaps add a config to customize the output eu/t and packet size?).

    I agree. If you need Ideas to implement Multi-block structure refinery + different types of generators, I've already about 4 to suggest ^^ (running on different fuels). Tier could be done with multiblcok structure (because some of those one could bring more oxygen, keep some byproducts of the combustion etc ...)


    Edit: I know I complained a lot, and you've already changed Fuel value, what I'm glad you did but ... I'm still thinking the output should also be buffed.
    Why ? Because your generator is twice expensive as a geogen (it's an example, most of the generator are cheaper than your one). What is its positive aspect compared to geogens ? A Refined Oil bucket last 10 times longer. But, being honest, lava is almost free ... that's why I would consider your generator pointless if it's just a way to "get even more Lava-Like lake" [^^]. As it's to me twice as expensive as a geogen, I think it should output 40 EU/t or more (because it also need a refinery, BC power, more pipes ...). I agree with the energetic values you've made, but please, make your generator output at least 30EU/t, or better, makes it configurable :D


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

    The post was edited 1 time, last by MatLaPatate ().

  • 0.14 update brings the following additions:

    • More better fuel power boost! - Fuel/oil now give 300k and 30k EU, respectively. Previous values were still over-nerfed considering they are non-renewable resources, making them unattractive compared to sources such as lava and biofuel.
    • Less shaving required!* - Increased the output to 25 EU/t for fuel so that you won't be sporting a five o'clock shadow by the time one bucket is consumed.
    • More simpler recipe! - was still complicated to build with some ingredients being third-(crafting)tier items. Costs now in line with Geothermal and TE Magma/steam engines - the Petroleum generators natural predators.
    • Pretty! - the texture of the block now differs if the generator is active - you can now see if you're burning the midnight oil at a glance.


    *Amount of shaving required is dependant on your career choice and, sometimes, gender.


    Note: You will need to delete your old drceph.petrogen.cfg file in the mine craft/config directory to use the new fuel values.

  • Great work, this mod really makes use of BC oil.
    Just a small suggestion, it would be nice to have multiple tiers of petrol generators to keep it useful even in the end-game (or perhaps add a config to customize the output eu/t and packet size?).
    (sorry for my english)


    After my latest update where I've boosted the generator again (see my previous post), I'm unlikely to create another tier for this generator. There are two reasons:
    1. Equivalency:
    This mod is designed to be the fuel equivalent of the geothermal generator. I.e. it is a relatively simple machine with a respectable power output that deals with liquids that require a bit of management.



    Also for those with an intrepid sense of adventure, a stack of fuel cans and a donkey, it is a formidable portable power solution for an outwards outpost given the minimal infrastructure needed. In fact, I'm pretty sure that this mod is the most EU you can pack into two slots of your inventory (stack of fuel cans and the generator).



    2. Redundancy:
    In my opinion there is a mod out there that provides what you might consider Tier 2 of this mod: Railcraft. Using a railcraft boiler with liquid fuel source and a turbine you'll end up with a greater EU output than this machine with about a 2.5x - 3x increase in efficiency. The downside is the considerable infrastructure required, which I think is sensible given the increase in total power out.


    As it's to me twice as expensive as a geogen, I think it should output 40 EU/t or more (because it also need a refinery, BC power, more pipes ...). I agree with the energetic values you've made, but please, make your generator output at least 30EU/t, or better, makes it configurable

    Not anymore ;) See last post.


    I think that the new value of 25 EU/t is more than enough, especially given the extreme portability of this system - you can now run an upgraded IC2 miner off this thing really quite easily and likely with power to spare, making it better than a Geothermal for that particular application. Given that it is now cheaper if you want more power output the solution would be to have a second Petroleum Generator (as you would do with a Geothermal). It only takes up a single block so the space overhead is minimal.