Energy crystals 2

1st Official Post

    First of all - sorry for my english.


    Previous topic was closed, and I had no time to write.
    If recipe will give 4 energium dusts per 4 diamond dusts - it's the best balance in my opinion.

    Quote

    so that I don't have to mine, what is the core content of MINEcraft?

    Minecraft have two core contents. MINE and CRAFT. And when I need lot of diamonds and other stuff to make quantum armor - its ok because QA is usable item. Top level usable item. One of game targets if you want. Even night vision goggles in nanohelmet is ok, though crafting goggles is more complex than whole nanoarmor itself.
    MFSU, MFE, fiber wire - are just an instruments, tools, means, etc to make other stuff. I don't want to spend whole game to make only MFSU. 1 diamond per wire? Why?? It's just a wire!
    People playing not only IC2, there are other mods. IC2 for me is a way to process resources. Why I need this in the end of game?
    I like metal formers - it's more realistic, I like thermal centrifuge and uranium isotopes, RITEGs and other stuff. But what you do to crystals... bad way. Really.

    Quote

    especially with a fortune pick

    Magic? In a tech game with only tech mods? No thanks...
    And I never got 40 diamonds per hour while mining. 0-12 are more realistic numbers.


    Summing up: too expensive. 4 energium dusts per 4 diamond dusts - it's the best balance in my opinion.

    • Official Post


    Even with 4 Diamonds per energium dust, Lapatron crystals still got a huge buff. So no, we will not use it. Besides, you don't NEED to use glass fibre, infact it should really only be used for extreme voltages right now. If you want a cable that can survive 2048 eu/t (the output from an mfsu) USE HV CABLE, it only costs iron.

    • Official Post

    Energy crystal energy storage increased 10 times (and bumped a tier up) while the recipe costs just 4 times more, do you still think it is too expensive?
    The glass fiber was too overused in comparison to other wires, thats why they are more expensive now.


    Best option IMO would be to slighly buff lower tier cables (and keep the glass fiber the way it is and keeping the current recipe), so people are more inclined to use all types of cables.


    About thread being closed, i forgot to tell sirus to not do that, just because ppl derail it.
    SirusKing, GregoriusT : Do not close threads for derailing or anything, only if really necessary.

    Quote from SirusKing

    If you want a cable that can survive 2048 eu/t (the output from an mfsu) USE HV CABLE, it only costs iron.

    I want a cable with no (or very small) losses. There was only purpose for fiber cables.

    Quote from SirusKing

    Lapatron crystals still got a huge buff

    You mean it can store more energy? So what? What it gives me? More resources? More ways to get them? More possibilities? Where the buff? I had no problems with old MFSU with 10M eu. Seriously, I don't get it.

    Quote from SpwnX

    Energy crystal energy storage increased 10 times (and bumped a tier up)

    Again, what buff is in it? Especially in "a tier up"?

    Quote from SpwnX

    Best option IMO would be to slighly buff lower tier cables

    Ok, no problem. Remove losses (like it been made for BC energy pipes), or make it really small, like 1 eu per 20 block in worst case. I'm gladly would use them. Now I even don't have a way to calc losses.


    What about armor? Nano armor costs 4 times more diamonds and what it gives me? More EU? I had no problems with 100k per item. It was never discharged for me. Will it give more protection?

    In my humble opinion*, I think it's a bit silly to tout increased storage capabilities as a buff, when it's simply a part of the re-aligning of the entire mod's power creation and consumption. Storage may have increased, but energy transfer and energy draw has been increased by similar (or even greater) amounts as well. With the new MOX reactors, even energy creation was increased; and the semifluid generator, while quite inefficient fuel consumption wise, actually posts quite good EU/t numbers as well. And then there's RTGs.


    To use a made-up analogy: Buildcraft could go and make their quarry consume 500 MJ/t instead of 50 MJ/t, and then go and make the combustion engine output 60 MJ/t instead of 6 MJ/t, and up transfer capacities on all kinesis pipes by 10x as well. There is no buff or nerf anywhere, there's just a paradigm shift - a restructuring of the numbers, maybe to allow for specific new features or more fine-grained differentiation or whatever you can come up with. It's just an example.


    As such, would Buildcraft be justified in making the combustion engine require diamond gears instead of iron, for 8 diamonds a piece, "because its energy output got buffed by 10x"? Hardly. It is still a combustion engine and it still fulfils the exact same purpose within the mod, at the same spot in the progression tree. If the cost was fine before, the cost is fine now. If the cost gets adjusted, that means it wasn't fine before.


    The lapotron crystal, for example - since those were cited above - is also still a lapotron crystal. It still fulfils the same purpose in the mod, sitting at the same position in the progression tree (the top tier portable energy storage and ingredient for endgame recipes). What we're seeing here is simply the dev team deciding that IC2's engame was too cheap and needed a bumping up. People may agree or disagree with this, and I am intentionally not picking a side in this specific post here, but trying to sell it as anything else is just plain eyewash. Seriously: just tell people that it's an intentional nerf. They'll argue all the same, but at least you stay honest.



    * Just drawing attention to these words again in case people forgot after four paragraphs.

    Quote from Vic3Dexe

    You mean it can store more energy? So what? What it gives me? More resources? More ways to get them? More possibilities? Where the buff? I had no problems with old MFSU with 10M eu. Seriously, I don't get it.

    So if instead of adding a new storage between MFE and batbox they would have added it to the end after MFSU you would have been happy?


    Basically MFE is the same as old MFSU, just cheaper. To get the old MFE just build yourself a bunch of adv. RE batteries and craft them to a box.

    Quote from hoho

    So if instead of adding a new storage between MFE and batbox they would have added it to the end after MFSU you would have been happy?


    Question is not in "where to place new storage" or "what tiers storages have now". Tier is just a number.

    Quote from hoho

    Basically MFE is the same as old MFSU, just cheaper


    Really? New MFE = 16 diamonds. Old MFSU = 10 diamonds.

    • Official Post

    Arguing about costs is gonna end nowhere. Accept it as an intentional nerf (as omicron said).

    Quote from Vic3Dexe


    Question is not in "where to place new storage" or "what tiers storages have now". Tier is just a number.

    Tiers are not just numbers. Higher tier output 4 times more EU/t and holds 10 times more energy than previous one and allows the charging of items of higher tiers.

    Quote from Vic3Dexe

    Ok, no problem. Remove losses (like it been made for BC energy pipes), or make it really small, like 1 eu per 20 block in worst case. I'm gladly would use them. Now I even don't have a way to calc losses.


    What about armor? Nano armor costs 4 times more diamonds and what it gives me? More EU? I had no problems with 100k per item. It was never discharged for me. Will it give more protection?

    Removing losses are just out of question.
    Armor now lats 10 times longer and it did discharge for me before, you just sat in your base, if compared to an adventurer.

    Quote from SpwnX

    Arguing about costs is gonna end nowhere. Accept it as an intentional nerf (as omicron said).

    Tiers are not just numbers. Higher tier output 4 times more EU/t and holds 10 times more energy than previous one and allows the charging of items of higher tiers.

    Removing losses are just out of question.
    Armor now lats 10 times longer and it did discharge for me before, you just sat in your base, if compared to an adventurer.


    No kidding, I've almost emptied a quantum helmet fighting the wither by myself before (in 1.4.7)
    and don't both nano and quantum helmets now have night vision built in or was that just quantum?


    What about letting us lower the losses by bundling the cable?
    1 strand = current losses
    2 strand = 1/2
    4 strand = 1/3
    etc
    up to whatever you feel would be right.
    the Glass fiber couldn't be stranded for obvious reasons, though if you want to IDC.
    and maybe increase the voltage capabilities for the wires at a 1:4 rate, ie 1 level increase for every 4 strands or something
    that way we'd have a way of using alternatives to glass fiber without nerfing it in terms of resource costs.
    oh, I do have to ask, does uninsulated HV cable still shock you like it did pre-experimental? I've got a mob farm that uses the HV cable embedded in CF like a bug zapper and I'd really hate to lose it.

    How about let's use the real world way, decrease resistance by decreasing the amount of insulation. However this comes at a cost - anything nearby is fried.

    Quote from Epic Lulz

    How about let's use the real world way, decrease resistance by decreasing the amount of insulation. However this comes at a cost - anything nearby is fried.


    wth are you smoking? insulation has no bearing on the resistance, not unless you are putting insulation on connectors, but that would be stupid

    • Official Post

    We should have both Voltage and Amperage. As Voltage Rises, amperage decreases and thus so does the Resistivity, giving a reason to step up voltages.

    Quote from SirusKing

    We should have both Voltage and Amperage. As Voltage Rises, amperage decreases and thus so does the Resistivity, giving a reason to step up voltages.


    adding amperage would also let you change the current setup of just adding to the voltage when adding more power sources. going from series to parallel connections, which is what we are visually doing in most cases.

    • Official Post
    Quote from GregoriusT

    Actually he is completly right. The Current also flows through the Insulation and therefor increases the Resistance. Just google it, if you want confirmation.


    Depends on how good the insulator is.

    • Official Post
    Quote from SirusKing

    We should have both Voltage and Amperage. As Voltage Rises, amperage decreases and thus so does the Resistivity, giving a reason to step up voltages.

    Basically, my suggestion.


    @insulation : Air is a good insulation, although if the Potential Energy (Voltage) is way too high, it flows through it.
    Guess what a thunder is.

    Quote from GregoriusT

    Actually he is completly right. The Current also flows through the Insulation and therefor increases the Resistance. Just google it, if you want confirmation.


    you sure you're not confusing that with the bigger impact of inductive losses caused by insulation and AC properties?

    Quote from SirusKing

    We should have both Voltage and Amperage. As Voltage Rises, amperage decreases and thus so does the Resistivity, giving a reason to step up voltages.


    That power system exist(ed) already... it's called Blutricity. ;)


    And what a beautiful system it was. Nipped in its infancy by a lack of mod updates and APIs/usage permissions. Oh Eloraam, what could have been if you had found a maintainer... ;(


    I don't think it's the right route for IC2 though. EUs are absolutely iconic in Minecraft, and such a massive redesign would probably not go over well.

    Quote from Omicron

    That power system exist(ed) already... it's called Blutricity. ;)


    And what a beautiful system it was. Nipped in its infancy by a lack of mod updates and APIs/usage permissions. Oh Eloraam, what could have been if you had found a maintainer... ;(


    I don't think it's the right route for IC2 though. EUs are absolutely iconic in Minecraft, and such a massive redesign would probably not go over well.


    actually, it already is undergoing a massive redesign
    the old way did have an "amps" of sort, they were called packets. the experimental version yanked the multiple packets and turned the power grid from parallel connections to serial.