Research system

  • Do you support the suggested additions? (read topic before voting, please) 22

    1. Yes (7) 32%
    2. No (12) 55%
    3. Maybe (3) 14%

    Poll ends on Jan 19th 2038, 3:14 am

    It seems odd how an average minecraft Steve can know everything about circuitry, electricity/magnetism, quantum mechanics, nuclear engineering, etc., and be able to construct any device at any time, given the right resources. So, I have an idea to suggest - the Research and Development system.


    The concept is that the player can take a part, material, item, etc., and investigate it at a research table. Notes are taken on paper, and once the research is complete and the notes make sense, the player can take those notes over to a development table. At the development table, several research note papers are used (NOT consumed) to construct a "blueprint" for a machine/part/item. This blueprint is then taken to a Worktable, where the blueprint is inserted into a slot, and the necessary materials in other slots, and the materials consumed to make a device/part/item.


    First, the research table. Its GUI would be relatively simple, with a slot for Paper, a slot for Ink Sacs, a slots for materials/parts/items/devices, a slot for finished notes, and a display for whatever cool effects could be added. Under the items slots row for the item(s) to be inspected, would be a button saying "inspect" or something like that.
    Usage is pretty straightforward. Items are input into the slots, paper in another, etc., and the button is pressed to inspect the items and/or observe what happens with them. For example, putting Magnetite and a bar of iron into the slots, would be observable for part of, if not the entire, concept of magnetism. After the first inspection is made for a set of notes, there is produced incomplete notes, which are to be left in the Working Notes slot, or can be removed and put back in that slot later. Those notes are worked on with multiple observations, and when complete, will produce "finished notes" that can be removed from the table. Items are not consumed, except for paper and ink, one of which is consumed for a single incomplete notes-page the first time it is made, and never again throughout the progression of the research.


    The development table is even simpler. Research Notes are loaded into its storage, which can hold lots of them. Then, Notes are taken from the storage and put in special slots. When there is a special combination in the slots, that is something a person would logically think of, a blueprint can be created for a machine/item/etc. that uses those concepts.
    Some notes can be read to create master notes, which function just like notes, but represent a concept of two or more note-papers. For example, one might use the notes for metal, frames, etc. and the notes for electricity/magnetism to create the master notes for the block-machine concept.


    The worktable is also pretty simple. At the bottom is a grid, about the size of a single-chest. This is where materials/items are loaded. At the top is a slot for some blueprints, and some slots for basic tools, like a saw, hammer/mallet, screwdriver, pliers, etc., which are damaged slightly each time something is made from a blueprint that requires them. Blueprints can be held and right-clicked for the player to see what they create, a sketch of what it looks like, some weird blueprinty-stuff under that, and off to the right, a list of stuff needed to make it, which is bolded to make it easy to find. Once the needed materials are input into the worktable, the player can craft the item/machine/whatever. Resources are consumed, tools are used, and the product is gained in the hands of the crafter.


    Of course, sometimes the user might happen upon a device, item, or other piece of technology ahead of their current state. This is where a new table is useful: the Reverse-Engineering table. At this table, there are slots for research stuff like the research table, and slots for tools. A piece of technology is put into a slot, and can be dismantled into smaller pieces if possible. These pieces can be researched to learn concepts and put them on research notes. Of course, it is likely that a player may happen to find only a pert/device that can not really be dismantled without ruining the concept, so they would be able to be inspected without having to be dismantled.


    After some time, the player might not want to use the old worktable and its constant need of new tools. So, there could be created a machine, that uses permanently-installed electric variants of the tools needed, to change input materials into the machine/item/whatever on given blueprints - the Assembly Machine. This machine automatically assembles a product when the needed energy/resources are available, and only does so if blueprints for something are given, because else it doesn't know what to do. It can also be automated further, with a system to input resources and extract the product, but this may be only practical for multiplayer and/or solar-spammers/RTG-spammers. It also takes time to manufacture a product, about as long as a single macerator cycle.


    This would make more sense, as a player would have to research before they can build something. This would also make machines less OP, as they would be a little harder to make. Some machines would be very difficult to make, so in a multiplayer environment, one could make lots of profit selling their research or products of that research. There could even be implemented a Notebook, for holding notes pages, and those could be compatible with BiblioCraft bookshelves, which would look awesome in a library.


    Of course, this is a suggestion, so you can reply with your thoughts, and it is best if you do, so that we have a good idea of what people want. It would be even better if you were to vote on the poll, as this keeps the developers from having to read all of the replies. Thank you for your consideration.

  • Research has been suggested very recently here. One problem with research is replayability - are you willing to go through all that research on your secoond, third, etc. world and so on? The first time through it may be fun for the player - however, that will gradually decrease until it is boring. One possible suggestion in the previous thread was to backup research status locally, or on the cloud so that all worlds and servers will share the same research file. However, some people may dislike research outright and find it too similar to other research systems already implemented in other mods.

    • Official Post

    That is why on one of the suggestions i've mentioned the fact that researches are complicated, but will be linked to player file, so you can store all your researches once you have done them.
    A config, which disables the need of researches and another that ignores your playerfile.

  • Please no! I installed NEI to get away from research! Thaumcraft adds a neat little minigame, and is required for balance, this doesn't help balance for IC2.

  • Research already exists.


    First you need to research the existence of rubber, copper and tin. Then you need to research the Forge Hammer and how to fold iron ingots using said hammer. Then you need to research the circuit, machine block and generator by assembling the correct items in the correct order. Then you need to research EU and how it reacts given certain input and output strength. And so on...


    The problem about all this is, that almost all people use a cheat-tool (aka NEI/Wiki) to look up the research instead of actually doing it. The reason is simple: people are too lazy to actually do research, they want to play Minecraft, not a guessing game. Now forcing them to do research will only do one thing: annoy all those people.

    • Official Post

    The only research system I would like involved you actually DOING things in the world (unlike TC4 where you just sit in a GUI doing the same puzzle over and over again), usually stuff you would normally experiment with (hmm, Im going to use iron instead of copper to transfer electricity, wait, why is the iron melting and the copper no- OMFG I JUST DISCOVERED RESISTANCE) although it would likely be hard to code. Personally I think it should be per gameworld, not player, but whatever.


    @Above It isn't research if you know it all completely all ready ;P

  • @Above It isn't research if you know it all completely all ready ;P


    It isn't anymore. It was when I played IC2 for the first time and my friends and I blew up countless bat-boxes and other machines while trying to figure out how all the stuff works. Our first nuclear reactor was probably the safest construction I ever made, but we were sure it would explode any second... and it did. :D


    Now that I have researched about everything IC2 related and know the recipes out of my head, I absolutely don't want to go through all that again... and again... and again... and again... and again...

    • Official Post

    Thing is, where did you get your information from? Surely you can't of just randomly thrown things together in the crafting table. Besides, it isn't researching the RECIPES, it is researching how they work so you can put them to use (ie, learning how combustion and current induction works so you can make stuff like a generator. The more indepth you research into it the more stuff you can figure out how to make, ie, research more into current induction and you might figure out how to make a tesla coil)

  • Thing is, people wouldn't know this is a research system but would google "IC² wiki" instead. Oh wait, they wouldn't find anything ... :p
    You know what would be a cool research system ? A research system with differential equations and matrix!


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!

    • Official Post

    Thing is, people wouldn't know this is a research system but would google "IC² wiki" instead. Oh wait, they wouldn't find anything ... :p
    You know what would be a cool research system ? A research system with differential equations and matrix!


    But some people don't like math >.>



    Also, The IC2 wiki is being updated :D

  • There are people who like to research stuff their own way, and there are people who like to just look everything up on the wiki. Now forcing the later to do the first, would just annoy these people. I always have the option to not look up things on a Wiki, but with an enforced research system I would no longer have the option to skip that part.


    And regarding the Wiki: I realized that I am an IC2-Hipster: I wrote (parts of) the nuclear article before it was cool... get it? :D

  • Thaumcraft is fundamentally different; it gives you simple-to-use tools with one purpose. Tech mods are about putting the machines and infrastructure together in different ways to maximize efficiency/throughput or to accomplish fancy tasks, not the machines themselves. (This is where I feel most of the modern FTB mods have gone wrong; they simply give OP machines that serve no purpose other than being OP.)


    If you play GT, you need to automate. Next time I see an industrial grinder without any covers or even a hopper attached I'll rip my hair out.

  • (This is where I feel most of the modern FTB mods have gone wrong; they simply give OP machines that serve no purpose other than being OP.)


    I don't think you can expect people who can't even configure their own mods to be capable to put forth any reasonable 'work' in a game. That's mostly why the modpack crowd swarms to the OP machines like they do: because they care more about the 'max resoure output' than the actual game-play-ability factor to apply those resources in their world...

    Would anyone like to try a Slowpoke Tail?! Only 1 Million Yen!


    Quote

    this isn't about arrogance or ego, I have a block that I put a lot of freaking work into


    Every Mod Author, in existence. And yet, you STILL say otherwise.

    • Official Post

    Simple logic should be enough. You should already know so far how people can behave and how smart people can not be.


    I'd like to have an Industrial Revolution Diary (very similar to ThaumCraft) where researches are saved upon (partial) completion of it. Anyone that opens the book would be granted access to all researches on it.
    The book can be easily copied aswell, using a system similar to vanilla maps.


    In the creative page, there should be a "wiki-book" with all researches done and it would be automatically given to the player if a config is enabled (wikiresearch=true)

    • Official Post

    I wonder what those people do if they have like a gazillion Diamond-blocks. Put them in a chest?


    Deep storage from MFR, the cheapest, largest storage of a single item type. :P

    145 Mods isn't too many. 9 types of copper and 8 types of tin aren't too many. 3 types of coffee though?

    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you read was not what I meant.


    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // I just don't know what went wrong :(


    I see this too much.

  • 2 Billion items in one chest... I like my shelf. It only has 20 slots, but it looks good on the wall. ;)


    But back to topic: what is the purpose of that Research-book? I am not sure if I get it, because if you can just easily copy it, where is the research?

  • 2 Billion items in one chest... I like my shelf. It only has 20 slots, but it looks good on the wall. ;)


    But back to topic: what is the purpose of that Research-book? I am not sure if I get it, because if you can just easily copy it, where is the research?

    You can, OR NOT share it with your friends ... and sell technologies to the others ;D


    Soon with Molten Salt Reactors, right ? :D
    NERF THA FUSION REACTOR!